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Old March 19, 2020, 03:46 PM   #1
cdoc42
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Shotgun primers

Although shotguns are third on my list of things to do for target practice, even at that, far more often they were used for hunting. I recently got back into Sporting Clays (for fun) and started handloading shotshells again.

In my inventory I had acquired several brands of primers from the spouse of a deceased friend and I wondered if anyone could offer advice about the differences or caution to be used:

1) Federal Classic 209A
2) Remington 97 (209)
3) Remington 57
4) CCI "Trap and Skeet" 209

5) Winchester-Western "Staynless" in a yellow box with red letter "W" 209
(Seems to be a pretty old box)

6) Winchester-Western 209 in a White Box with Red "W" but "Staynless" is printed only on the side of the box (newer version, I suspect)

7) Alcan G57F - distrbuted by Alcan out of Alton, Il but made in Italy by
Giulio Fiocchi Lecco

Are they all interchangeable for a 12-Ga load with low brass, AA cases, WAA12 wad and 17.5gr Clays with 1-1/8 oz of shot?

Thanks for any advice.
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Old March 19, 2020, 05:07 PM   #2
Virginian
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57 and 209 are a different size.
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Old March 19, 2020, 07:22 PM   #3
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Some are hotter, some are not. Match the load to tested data for that powder and primer. When I started loading for shotgun I studied up. I can't remember exact details of pressure and load, but a primer change was a significant difference with the same charge.
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Old March 20, 2020, 07:53 AM   #4
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It's tough to find load recommendations that use "Staynless" WW or Italian Alcan primers.

I have seen some data where an increase in the powder charge produces a lower pressure with a different primer.
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Old March 20, 2020, 09:31 AM   #5
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First, any battery cup primer with a "57" in the label is a smaller size meant for Remington hulls way back when. I remember when they came out with the RXP to compete with AA and started using 209s and that was in the 1970s or early 1980s.


Shotshell reloading is pretty much recipe driven. Finding loads with some of those old stock primers might be hard and you might not be able to find the wads and hulls used at the time, either. "Working up" a shotshell load is not anything I ever tried.
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Old March 20, 2020, 10:08 AM   #6
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trash the 57's and alcans.
get some old loading data books on line.
any primer with A on the number means (magnesium alloy.) it burns hot for magnum loads.
209's are the current benchmark primer.
the 97 is not to be used with ball powders. it lacks a flash hole cover.
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Last edited by stuckinthe60s; March 20, 2020 at 10:23 AM.
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Old March 20, 2020, 10:02 PM   #7
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Way back when, when I shot trap a lot, used Remington green hulls and CCI primers, seemed to work best in my load.
Ditch anything that doesn't say 209 on it.
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Old March 21, 2020, 08:33 AM   #8
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Thanks to all. Some of these are old, but I don't know how old. Especially the yellow box Winchester-Western with the term "Staynless" and Remington labeled "Kleenbore." Both of those are packaged in boxes with cardboard channels holding the primers rather than plastic containers with holes. The white box of WW has the plastic holders.
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Old March 21, 2020, 08:44 AM   #9
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I ran a quick search for WW primers and found a source if info:https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=178168

The Yellow WW Styanless box is from 1963; the white box is from 1974. I'll load a dummy shell and see if they fire.
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Old March 21, 2020, 04:49 PM   #10
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Primers will effect the overall load. Lots of online resources available and while they recommend specific recipes, it's not hard to work up your own low brass load based on powder type, grains, hull and wads.
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Old March 21, 2020, 06:46 PM   #11
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if they arent rusted....load em.
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Old March 24, 2020, 04:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
trash the 57's and alcans.
OR, sell/trade them. there are people who will want them and use them, you just need to find them, and don't expect the old primers to be worth their weight in gold, or even close.
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Old March 24, 2020, 07:10 PM   #13
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sell them to dog trainers who would use them as blanks in empty hulls to train dogs to react to the bang.
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Old March 24, 2020, 08:24 PM   #14
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When it comes times to actually load some ammo, remember to follow the recipe. Subbing primers (unlike metallic) can cause differing pressures that can lead to problems; same applies to hulls and wads. Both Alliant and Hodgdon online have up-to-date data
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Old March 25, 2020, 07:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
7) Alcan G57F - distrbuted by Alcan out of Alton, Il but made in Italy by
Giulio Fiocchi Lecco
FWIW those "Alcan" / GFL are Fiocci. GFL translates to Giulio Fiocchi / Lecco Italy. Lecco is a town in Lombardy in Northern Italy.
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Old March 26, 2020, 07:21 PM   #16
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but even more important is the alcan number G57F, which means too small.
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