Savage fcp bolt

[hnusz]

A friend of mine has a savage fcp in 308 for sale. My question is when the bolt is closed on a empty chamber you can move it front and back. Is this normal for a savage. He said it hasn't been shot much. Thanks

[taylorce1]

Can it be moved with a fired case in the chamber? Savage bolts are made up of multiple pieces so yes there can be some play in the bolt. The question is how much movement is there?

[hnusz]

Don't have any brass. It feels like it's moving about .020 front to rear. My only experience with bolt guns is my old Winchester single shot 22 and a 303 brit both have no movement with bolt closed on empty chamber.

[taylorce1]

You're fine.

[hnusz]

Thanks. It's down to the savage or a mossberg mvp lc both are 308 .

[RC20]

I will check mine and let you know (I have 3)

I know of one Savage that had the bolt head recess mucked out and was toast sans a repair (probably more than a new 12FV from Cabella when they are on sale)

I have never noticed that kind of motion. While the head floats a bit, it locks up tight.

The bolt head is floating but its not that independent

I will get back to you tonight.

With some tools you can take the barrel off and see it, or a boroscope if this proves to be an oddity that needs explanation.

[taylorce1]

There wasn't really enough info to go on, but I imagine the firing pin spring didn't have any tension on it. If you don't have the rifle cocked the bolt will move in a Savage rifle just as the OP described. That's why I suggested he chamber a piece of once fired brass.

[Mobuck]

Savage 110 headspace is adjusted by screwing the barrel closer to the bolt rather than cutting the chamber deeper. Depending on the actual depth of the chamber, there may be space between the bolt head and back end of barrel. This is the "movement" you're feeling.

[hnusz]

Got it this morning he gave me some brass. Chambered a once fired bolt was tight the handle had a slight movement.

[taylorce1]

If you would try it without the brass on an empty chamber one more time. Leave the tension on the firing pin and see if the bolt moves, then pull the trigger dry firing the rifle and see if the bolt moves like before. Let us know your results please?

Thanks!

[RC20]

Savage 110 headspace is adjusted by screwing the barrel closer to the bolt rather than cutting the chamber deeper. Depending on the actual depth of the chamber, there may be space between the bolt head and back end of barrel. This is the "movement" you're feeling.

Bolt lug recces is in the receiver, not the barrel. Lock up has nothign to do with the back of the barrel.

If head space is just a bit short (or your shoulder setback is not enough) you can still mash a round into the chamber.

If the head space is at field reject or further, the lugs still lock up normally and as long as not too long (case moves to far forward and no shoulder stop) the gun will fire.

[hnusz]

If you drop the mag close the bolt put your finger in the mag well and one on top of the bolt you can move it up down and side to side . .015 to .020 just guessing can't bring it in the shop during the day. It does the same after you pull the trigger. It does not move front to back.

[taylorce1]

Checked two of my Savage rifles, and they'll do the same thing. Both have hundreds of rounds through them with no issues. Again I will say it's because of the way the savage bolts built. I imagine it's just the bolt body moving to the limits the floating bolt head will allow.

[RC20]

hnusz:

The answer is absolutely no.

I was 99.9% sure it was no, but I pulled one of my Savages out of a stock (blind mag) and tried it.

As expected, it is absolutely tight.

If the lugs look clean, then the lug lockup recess is mucked up. If the lugs are messed up the lockup lug recess can still be messed up. That takes an inspection.

As that is the receiver, it would take a full fledged gun smith to fix and its not likely worth the cost.

[taylorce1]

The answer is not absolutely no!

What is happening with your bolt isn't anything to freak out about. It is simply the floating bolt head doing what it's designed to do IMO. I checked two more that are brand new never fired Savage bolt actions and one of them is a full custom. Both move as you described, and I'm betting the other three in blind magazine stocks that i haven't checked would move the same way on an empty chamber.

I will not hesitate to shoot either as I have headspace gages for both rifles. They both close on the go gage and don't on the no-go. With the gages or dummy cartridge in each the bolt doesn't move. If youre worried about it simply stop by a gunsmith and have him check the head space, they probably won't even charge you for it.

Remember we arm chair internet quarterbacks can't diagnose your rifle with any certainty. If you have any doubts take it to a local professional. Take them the fired brass you have for them to examine.

[hnusz]

Thanks guys. I put my indicator on it it moves .012 up ,down and side to side nothing front to back. It needs a scope I will have him look at it and see what he thinks of it. I will post back what he says might be a few days I'm on mandatory overtime.

[tobnpr]

I always check Savages with the bolt stripped down- including removing the spring washer behind the bolthead. I want no tension on it so I can accurately "feel" resistance to the bolt closing.

With an indicator on the bolt to check forward play- and you get none with a go gauge in the chamber- means zero headspace. Light resistance is perfect- meaning the bolt handle won't fall from gravity alone but needs a light finger press. You can't do this with the spring washer in place as tensions the bolthead.

You'll always have lateral play in the bolt raceway unless the bolt body is bushed, or the raceway has been reamed for precision fit to an oversize (aftermarket) bolt body.

[RC20]

Again in the for what its worth.

I checked two guns, no play detected, one stripped down and I can't move it side to side let alone up and down where there is better leverage to do so.

I am not sure why this is wandering into head space?

My take is that hnusz has movement in the bolt without anything in the chamber.

[tobnpr]

Spec for chambering Savages (other than .338 Lapua due to the bolthead) is .125-.130 go-gauge protrusion.
Boltface recess depth from rim is approx. .115-.116
There will always be this "play" in the bolt on an empty chamber unless the chamber has been reamed too deep, and the bolt nose contacts the barrel breech.

If I've got the rifle and bolt- necessary dimensions can be taken to tighten up the clearance rather than just chambering to prefit specs.

[RC20]

Head space and lug engagement are two different things.

Again I have no bolt movement. I would have to take one apart to do an in depth, but if there is slop in lockup then it will take a beating.

As I cannot feel any movement let alone as much as the OP report I remain suspicious.

With it out of the stock I an leverage up and down and some side ways.

[hnusz]

Yes it's a empty chamber. I will check it with a once fired piece. It will be a couple of days

[Mobuck]

"Bolt lug recces is in the receiver, not the barrel. Lock up has nothign to do with the back of the barrel. "
Depends on brand/model. Some rifles have the bolt fit snug against the back end of the barrel OR a shoulder in the receiver then the chamber is cut.
As I said, the Savage will/may have a gap between the end of the barrel and the bolt head allowing the bolt to have some fore/aft movement in the bolt lug recesses.

[RC20]

Head space is what all of .004? Even if you move to file reject you aren't going to have ..012 movement and you can't feel or even force the small amount really there if its set right.

[Mobuck]

"Head space is what all of .004? Even if you move to file reject you aren't going to have ..012 movement and you can't feel or even force the small amount really there if its set right."

Not applicable with the Savage design. A "short chamber" could result in a noticeable gap between bolt head and barrel. Headspace is only applicable if a case is chambered.

[tobnpr]

Better always be clearance between the bolt nose and breech- whether it's an M700, Savage, or whatever. Otherwise any minor smidge of dirt of foreign matter will prevent lockup.
On 700's with the bolt nose recess you still want min. .005 clearance.

A simple indicator setup will show this.