Apparently we can't even arm police in schools...

[adamBomb]

2 incidents yesterday involving police have ADs in two different schools. Are these people trained? I don't get it? Going to be hard to argue teachers should be carrying guns when the police can't even get it right. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt in either incident except a student had some debris fall on them.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/14...nt-police.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/13...cials-say.html

[mehavey]

From the 1st article:

...teaching a gun safety lesson for his administration of justice class.
Police say Alexander, who also serves as a reserve police officer, was
pointing the gun at the ceiling to make sure it was not loaded when
the weapon discharged.

It's very, very hard to fix terminally stupid.

I do like the phrase "...the weapon discharged."
(Sorta like Spanish translation: the glass broke itself)

[thallub]

Good post.

We have bank guards, power plant guards, airport guards, body guards and other guards: Why can't we have school guards manning metal detectors at entrance points?

Kids are not totally dumb. Armed teachers would soon be identified. Some would be disarmed by students. Sooner or later some teacher will leave a gun in a restroom or desk drawer.

i have numerous school teacher friends. Some are gun nuts: None would pack a gun in the classroom.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Is the OP so young he has never seen the “I’m the only one professional enough...” video? I also ask because you seem a bit disconnected/unaware of RKBA folklore in general.

The good news is whether through dumb luck or planning; unlike that guy, both of these individuals at least observed rule 2. That’s the great thing about the four rules.

[Lohman446]

I tried Googling it and could not get current numbers but there is something like 90K public schools in the US from what I could find (and that seems a little low) and something like 55 million students.

If we report every incident and every event as national news its going to seem like there are far more issues than there are.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

As long as Bloomberg is buying ads for one of his businesses/charities, that’s the way guns will be reported.

The only thing different with Parkland was that they had their whole PR show wound up and ready to swing into action immediately, as well as a good on-the-ground environment to deploy it in.

[mehavey]

Armed teachers would soon be identified.
Some would be disarmed by students....

I continually -- and sadly -- shake my head that we as a society
have allowed ourselves to create a social order wherein we fear
our children as a matter of deliberate policy.

[RC20]

I think this is worth reading. Only gives us insight into schools, not the rest.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-hard-to-stop/

[dogtown tom]

thallub ........Why can't we have school guards manning metal detectors at entrance points?

I've worked at campuses with metal detectors. It's a pathetic attempt at safety and security. First, students are in and out of a building all the time. Recess anyone? How about marching band, PE classes, ROTC, etc. Not to mention campuses that have multiple buildings. The three senior high campuses in my district look like a small college......around 3,000 students at each.

Too many of you think all schools are built the same.

Kids are not totally dumb. Armed teachers would soon be identified. Some would be disarmed by students. Sooner or later some teacher will leave a gun in a restroom or desk drawer.

Just like any other CHL/LTC licensed carrier?
Just like any police officer?

The fear of students overpowering a teacher to get their gun is a fallacy perpetuated by the antigun crowd. Don't continue the myth.

i have numerous school teacher friends. Some are gun nuts: None would pack a gun in the classroom.

I'm a teacher and can name 30-50 fellow teachers who would carry today if our district policy permitted it.

[TailGator]

I volunteered in the local schools for 15 years, and put in so many hours that more than one teacher thought I was on staff and asked how I got out of faculty meetings. I never carried at school or school functions out of respect for the law, but I deeply resented being disarmed at the exact moments that my responsibilities were greatest.

I loved the kids I worked with and if there had been an incident while I was there I would have done all I could to protect them. I would have been much more effective if I had been armed. It is impossible for me to believe that there are no teachers who feel the same. I know there are because I saw them and worked with them. I also knew teachers that should not be armed. As far as I know, none of the proposed policies for armed teachers require teachers to go armed; rather, they allow teachers with the desire, dedication, and love for their students, to take additional steps to protect them. Huge difference. Huge.

[Crankgrinder]

Armed security in schools is not on the agenda. Banning guns is. Any accidents, incedence involving the discharge of firearms especially if it's in a school and especially if the act is committed by a professional or otherwise armed staff will be reported at every opportunity and you can bet the magnitude of any injuries that result will be embellished just a hair. I saw the headline "fired a semiautomatic handguns into the ceiling, injuring three students" and "bullet ricochet off the ceiling". Bullets don't ricochet off of acoustic paneling first of all and second, I'm sure any "injuries"sustained by falling sheetrock were extremely minor. Unfortunate nonetheless but minor. Point is these news reports are all about "guns make us less safe so ban guns" propaganda .

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Perhaps we wouldn't have incidents that could and will be exaggerated if a set of geniuses wouldn't shoot the ceiling. It's ok because it went into acoustic tile?

Here's a ricochet that killed a person and sent the officer to jail.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/n...-brooklyn.html

It's not so bad isn't a defense and excuse for having guns in school.

[hemiram]

Thinking back to the early 70's when I was in school, I wouldn't want many of the teachers I dealt with to be armed.They were crazy enough without guns to scare me. Some of the stuff that a few of them did after I graduated proved my feelings about them were correct.

[Lohman446]

Some of the stuff that a few of them did after I graduated proved my feelings about them were correct.

You cannot judge the many by the few and you should not judge the few by the many.

I have thought about this some. While I would not have wanted the majority of teachers armed there were several that I have no question would have been able to handle the day to day responsibility of being armed AND would have stood in opposition to any armed threat that entered the school.

No one, I hope, is discussing arming all teachers. However I am sure there are teachers that have CCWs and are capable of handling themselves that are disarmed by various laws. I am sure there are teachers that would put in the time and effort to stay or become effective protectors. How many times do we hear about the hero teachers, administrators, and coaches who have attempted to stop a gunman in a school? In almost every incident there are examples. I wish these men and women had had the opportunity to be armed and be more effective.

When I walk into a school to retrieve my children I do so with an empty holster because various laws require me to lock my gun in my truck. I would still stand between children and an armed gunman - I would just do so much less effectively than if I was armed.

[Don P]

2 incidents yesterday involving police have ADs in two different schools. Are these people trained? I don't get it? Going to be hard to argue teachers should be carrying guns when the police can't even get it right

That the reason they make those traning firearms in those wild colors like the orange one I have for classroom instruction.

[johnwilliamson062]

Are these people trained?

The simple reality is, probably not, at least by the standards of firearms enthusiasts such as post on this forum.
Look up the minimal yearly firearms training required by your state. In my state it is about 50 rounds for the qualification test. The test is not difficult. I am sure there are some officers who only shoot the test each year. The "highly trained professional" is non-sense. Well most police officers are highly trained, but not in the use of firearms.

Arming teachers is a lot different than having them purposely handle loaded weapons in the classroom for no reason. If he was going to demonstrate with a pistol it should have been brought to class boxed and unloaded. Even in a firearms class, during a classroom section of training, it is extremely abnormal for instructors to be handling loaded firearms in my experience.

[Lohman446]

a lot different than having them purposely handle loaded weapons in the classroom for no reason.

At a couple of the indoor ranges and gun stores around me it is my understanding one of the quickest ways to be asked to leave is to show off your concealed handgun. They have no problem letting you handle the display firearms but your own holstered weapon is an entirely different game.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

About shooting the ceiling. A few months ago, my daughter and husband came to visit. So I took them to a local indoor range as we like to do. It was pretty new. The staff likes to supervise new shooters but I was wearing one of my range officer competition hats and after watching for a bit, they trusted me. They were having conniption fits trying to keep a guy on paper at seven yards.

Anyway, my kid looked up and saw numerous holes above us. She pointed that out and I asked the staff member who sighed. She said it was like that a month after they opened.

[dogtown tom]

Lohman446 At a couple of the indoor ranges and gun stores around me it is my understanding one of the quickest ways to be asked to leave is to show off your concealed handgun. They have no problem letting you handle the display firearms but your own holstered weapon is an entirely different game.

Not a week goes by that a customer wants to show me their carry gun. For some reason they think I would be interested in seeing another Glock, another 1911 or another LCP. It's one more opportunity for negligent handling.

There is only one reason to remove your gun from its holster while in public, and that is when you use it.

[Rangerrich99]

'There is only one reason to remove your gun from its holster while in public, and that is when you use it."

YES. No reason at all for a "professional" to draw his weapon and demonstrate anything in a school. BRING ONE OF THOSE PLASTIC ORANGE FAKE GUNS is you want to demo something for Pete's sake. Cripes . . .

[Crankgrinder]

Nobody said a ND in a school as okay in any situation. I don't put words in other people's mouths. All I'm saying is that accidents happen all the time if people look hard enough they will find an idiot at any time, on any day doing the exact thing whatever that might be that suits the agenda to be reported on be it traffic fatalities involving cellphones or armed "professionals" that are anything but. The news media wants the public at large to reject any idea of armed security in public schools so they will dig up and report anything they can find which illustrates any flaws with such an idea and there are flaws. No one is saying it's the only solution because it's not but we've already seen too many times that 3 0.06 sign out front isn't a solution either. Any carried firearm has no business seeing daylight unless its about to be deliberately used.

[RandyC]

Third seconds can be an eternity when there is an active shooter at work.
Seconds count and whoever stops him must be close by, not in another building, not at the end of another hallway, not on another floor.

Concerning the most recent shooters, metal detectors would have just been an expensive, gee-we-feel-better, joke. The shooter would have just started his rampage 15 seconds sooner.

And having an armed guard on campus -- IF he decides to engage he could still be two or three minutes away, an eternity when someone is shooting kids.

Plus, school districts can't afford making our schools armed camps.

Teachers willing to engage a shooter make more sense. They are the most motivated people there. And c'mon, it's not rocket science. It has more to do with courage than great expertise.

Will kids figure out who's carrying? Probably. But so what? Why would a teacher carrying offend their delicate sensibilities any more than metal detectors and armed guards?

Teachers, like cops, represent a cross section of our communities. But I think those who choose to carry will be far more responsible than those who won't.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by GlennE Meyer

It's not so bad isn't a defense and excuse for having guns in school.

Someone had an accident with a firearm isn't a good reason to maintain schools as "gun free zones".

I attended high school in the 1980s, before concealed carry licensing had come to Ohio. We had teachers who carried. It wasn't a big deal.

[jimsouth]

Originally Posted by adamBomb

2 incidents yesterday involving police have ADs in two different schools. Are these people trained? I don't get it? Going to be hard to argue teachers should be carrying guns when the police can't even get it right. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt in either incident except a student had some debris fall on them.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/14...nt-police.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/13...cials-say.html

This school district has an answer.School shooters: Pennsylvania district arms its students with rocks
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cks/455181002/
1 day ago - Pennsylvania school district: Intruders 'will be stoned' by students armed with rocks. ... As part of the program, he said, every classroom has a 5-gallon bucket of rocks that students could use to "stone" a school shooter, if need be. ...

[jimsouth]

Originally Posted by jimsouth

This school district has an answer.School shooters: Pennsylvania district arms its students with rocks
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cks/455181002/
1 day ago - Pennsylvania school district: Intruders 'will be stoned' by students armed with rocks. ... As part of the program, he said, every classroom has a 5-gallon bucket of rocks that students could use to "stone" a school shooter, if need be. ...

I will no longer admit I live in Pennsylvania.