High Standard H-D Military misfires

mr-natural · November 26, 2018, 07:19 PM

I've had this gun for >50 years and in recent years (10 years or so) it progressively has gotten worse with misfiring. Yesterday it misfired about 2 or 3 times per magazine. Sometimes I could recock and it would fire and sometimes it would not. Comparing the firing pin imprint with my friend's who was shooting a S&W Model 41 it appears that my firing pin is striking deep enough but just too close to the edge of the casing. My friends is maybe striking .020" more toward the center of the cartridge. We were both shooting the same ammunition from the same box. I keep the hammer down when stored and I did a through disassembly and cleaning of the slide about a year ago. Suggestions please.

Bill DeShivs · November 26, 2018, 09:32 PM

Make sure your chamber is clean, and that the rounds are seating full against the chamber shoulder.

darkgael · November 27, 2018, 07:05 PM

Aside from cleaning, when was the last time that you changed your springs?
Also....have you checked the frame ariund the inside of the magazine well for cracks? Cracks there are common in older HSs and can lead to misfires as the frame is slightly different when cracked.

Ricklin · November 27, 2018, 07:24 PM

Def. inspect the frame. I have an old Supermatic and it only gets fed standard velocity ammo.
Avoid the mini mags etc. and stick with standard velocity. As a bonus the standard velocity is generally the most accurate too.

**44 AMP** · November 30, 2018, 12:15 AM

Quote:

We were both shooting the same ammunition from the same box.... Suggestions please.

I had something kind of similar happen with a friend him shooting a S&W 41 and I was shooting a Ruger Mk I.

Both of us using the same ammo (which happened to be CCI Blazer). He had several misfires, and I had none. The rounds that misfired in his gun went off normally in mine.

Some guns are just picky.

Now if yours has been running fine for 50+years and suddenly starts failing, springs are a likely culprit, absent obvious damage or wear.

Do check the rear face of the barrel. Sometimes, over the years snapping the gun for storage will raise a burr on the edge of the chamber, so the rim of the shell is no longer properly supported.

Another possible solution is simply changing ammo. It may not be entirely a gun problem. If it does misfire with several different brands of ammo, then its likely a gun problem. But if only one brand of ammo is a problem, shoot something else if you can.

jmstr · November 30, 2018, 03:16 PM

The suggestion of a burr is a good one to investigate.

I was wondering if there is any chance of a small 'dent' in that section from dry firing the pistol.

If the firing pin struck that section frequently enough, there could be an air pocket between the chamber mouth and the rim that is closer to the chamber than the edge of the rim. As such, the round may be moving into that small gap when firing.

If there is no mark on the chamber mouth- then there is no worry.

Just thinking here.

Another possibility is to evaluate the firing pin tip itself. The firing pin can wear, and that area that is not leaving deep dents may be worn down [or chipped] from decades of use.

After all, the HD Military production was stopped by 1953 [I think closer to 1950], so the gun is easily 65 years old.

I have an HD Military from 1947 and another from 1949.

Do you know how to remove the slide to properly inspect it?

If so, do you know if you have the Firing Pin with the round shank- or the flat shank?

My 1947 one has the flat shank pin and generates light strikes. My round shanked one is better about that. I don't know why.

mr-natural · February 4, 2019, 06:20 PM

Sorry to be so long in getting back regarding the HD Military. Got busy building some lighter loads for my 44 mag. That thing is sure fun to fire as long as you hold onto it. Anyway I went through the slide recently and didn't find a thing. HOWEVER, I just now took a close look at the chamber area and it does appear that it is chipped near, but not directly, in the area where the pin strikes. The area directly to the right of the chamber is what I'm addressing. I am surprised at just how thin the steel is (was) in this area. Hopefully the photo is shown.

Bill DeShivs · February 5, 2019, 12:17 AM

They all look like that.

jmstr · February 5, 2019, 02:37 AM

There is another possibility to check out. The frame impact surface behind the stop lug.

When you remove the slide, the stoplug should be exactly 90 degrees- straight up.
1-2 degrees forward isn't bad, but 90 degrees straight up is the key.

However, over time [and previous owners not changing driving springs or using HV ammo- or both], the stop lug can be pressed to the rear hard enough and frequently enough to 'dent' the inside frame surface that is supposed to stop its' rearward motion.

If your stoplug is leaning to the rear by even 1 degree, you may have a dented frame.

In addition, if your frame is dented, it is good to check out the stop lug lever- as the forces that dented the frame could have twisted the stop lug lever: which the stop lug pivots upon.

If these have happened, the stop lug will lean past straight up.
If that happens, the driving spring may not force the slide forward enough for a tightly sealed breech.
If that happens, the hammer fall may push the slide completely closed, and the second hammer fall would ignite it.

This has happened in both HD Military handguns I have.

So, take the stop lug out [carefully]- inspect the lug's pivoting lever, the lug itself for damage, and the impact surface it is pressed against [for signs of displaced metal].

If those have issues, interarms tx dot com can give you some pointers, and has some parts for replacement. Jack First gun parts may have some also, but interarms' owner has been immersed in high standards since the 1980s.

mr-natural · February 8, 2019, 03:31 PM

Thanks for all that info jamstr. I'll check it out. So I'm trying to find the "stop lug". I see what it's supposed to look like in the parts list from Numrick but sure can't find anything on the gun that looks like that. After removing the slide the only item that protrudes at 90° from the top surface of the frame are two lugs that are part of the frame. The release lever is at about 92° but I'm sure you're not talking about that. Can you give me some direction as to where I'll find it.

Drm50 · February 8, 2019, 08:16 PM

I've got 3 HDs. A 4" Ived had for 50yrs and a 63/4" I got last year. The later was missing a
few parts but other wise excellent and low count gun. I figure because it wasn't usable since parts were missing. So I began looking for parts got what I needed and picked up a beater
4". It's doing the same light strike deal and it has to be firing pin as far as I can tell. It fires fine with slide assembly off the 63/4" gun.

jmstr · February 10, 2019, 01:38 PM

Mr. Natural,

When you remove the slide, you have to pull the slide back, press the button on top of the slide down HARD, let the slide move forward [while button pressed down] and then rotate slide stop lug lever [on right side] down, then slide the slide off the gun to the rear.

Once the slide is off the pistol frame, the stop lug spring presses the stop lug back into the vertical position, and the lever on the right side rotates to just a bit below pointing straight forward.

If you have taken the slide off, rotate the take down lever [stop lug lever] and the stop lug will rotate from vertical to pointing forward.

The part that you see is moving is the stop lug.

The takedown lever is connected to a shaft that slides through it, and is held in place by the trigger bar cover on the left side.

A casual glance at that pivoting part may make it seem like 90 degrees, but you need to give it a critical glance.

The impact area I am describing can only be viewed if you have the slide off [set it aside for now] and rotate the stop lug/takedown lever down, so the stop lug points forward.

the space that is now open may have signs of being dented. This is the space that is directly under the front of those lugs that are on the frame.

When the stop lug is pressed to the rear it can deform the metal over decades- especially with no driver spring [recoil spring to the rest of the world] replacements and/or High Velocity [Minimag-speed] ammo. If anyone uses Hyper-Velocity [Stinger or faster] ammo, the risk is much greater.

The owners manual at time of sale said high velocity was ok. However, the consensus among those who have done research is that high velocity is best avoided, as there is no accuracy advantage over standard velocity and there is a greater risk of damage to the handgun over time.

If you really get into High Standards, there is a dedicated sub-forum of rimfire central dot com for them. That is where I've learned as much as I have- the people there have taught me.

November 26, 2018, 07:19 PM	#1
mr-natural Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 3	High Standard H-D Military misfires I've had this gun for >50 years and in recent years (10 years or so) it progressively has gotten worse with misfiring. Yesterday it misfired about 2 or 3 times per magazine. Sometimes I could recock and it would fire and sometimes it would not. Comparing the firing pin imprint with my friend's who was shooting a S&W Model 41 it appears that my firing pin is striking deep enough but just too close to the edge of the casing. My friends is maybe striking .020" more toward the center of the cartridge. We were both shooting the same ammunition from the same box. I keep the hammer down when stored and I did a through disassembly and cleaning of the slide about a year ago. Suggestions please. Last edited by mr-natural; November 27, 2018 at 01:28 PM.

November 26, 2018, 09:32 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Make sure your chamber is clean, and that the rounds are seating full against the chamber shoulder. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 27, 2018, 07:05 PM	#3
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Aside from cleaning, when was the last time that you changed your springs? Also....have you checked the frame ariund the inside of the magazine well for cracks? Cracks there are common in older HSs and can lead to misfires as the frame is slightly different when cracked. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

November 27, 2018, 07:24 PM	#4
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,013	Yes inspect the frame Def. inspect the frame. I have an old Supermatic and it only gets fed standard velocity ammo. Avoid the mini mags etc. and stick with standard velocity. As a bonus the standard velocity is generally the most accurate too. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

February 5, 2019, 12:17 AM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	They all look like that. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 30, 2018, 03:16 PM	#6
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	The suggestion of a burr is a good one to investigate. I was wondering if there is any chance of a small 'dent' in that section from dry firing the pistol. If the firing pin struck that section frequently enough, there could be an air pocket between the chamber mouth and the rim that is closer to the chamber than the edge of the rim. As such, the round may be moving into that small gap when firing. If there is no mark on the chamber mouth- then there is no worry. Just thinking here. Another possibility is to evaluate the firing pin tip itself. The firing pin can wear, and that area that is not leaving deep dents may be worn down [or chipped] from decades of use. After all, the HD Military production was stopped by 1953 [I think closer to 1950], so the gun is easily 65 years old. I have an HD Military from 1947 and another from 1949. Do you know how to remove the slide to properly inspect it? If so, do you know if you have the Firing Pin with the round shank- or the flat shank? My 1947 one has the flat shank pin and generates light strikes. My round shanked one is better about that. I don't know why.

February 5, 2019, 02:37 AM	#9
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	There is another possibility to check out. The frame impact surface behind the stop lug. When you remove the slide, the stoplug should be exactly 90 degrees- straight up. 1-2 degrees forward isn't bad, but 90 degrees straight up is the key. However, over time [and previous owners not changing driving springs or using HV ammo- or both], the stop lug can be pressed to the rear hard enough and frequently enough to 'dent' the inside frame surface that is supposed to stop its' rearward motion. If your stoplug is leaning to the rear by even 1 degree, you may have a dented frame. In addition, if your frame is dented, it is good to check out the stop lug lever- as the forces that dented the frame could have twisted the stop lug lever: which the stop lug pivots upon. If these have happened, the stop lug will lean past straight up. If that happens, the driving spring may not force the slide forward enough for a tightly sealed breech. If that happens, the hammer fall may push the slide completely closed, and the second hammer fall would ignite it. This has happened in both HD Military handguns I have. So, take the stop lug out [carefully]- inspect the lug's pivoting lever, the lug itself for damage, and the impact surface it is pressed against [for signs of displaced metal]. If those have issues, interarms tx dot com can give you some pointers, and has some parts for replacement. Jack First gun parts may have some also, but interarms' owner has been immersed in high standards since the 1980s.

February 8, 2019, 03:31 PM	#10
mr-natural Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 3	Thanks for all that info jamstr. I'll check it out. So I'm trying to find the "stop lug". I see what it's supposed to look like in the parts list from Numrick but sure can't find anything on the gun that looks like that. After removing the slide the only item that protrudes at 90° from the top surface of the frame are two lugs that are part of the frame. The release lever is at about 92° but I'm sure you're not talking about that. Can you give me some direction as to where I'll find it. Last edited by mr-natural; February 8, 2019 at 06:04 PM.

February 8, 2019, 08:16 PM	#11
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	I've got 3 HDs. A 4" Ived had for 50yrs and a 63/4" I got last year. The later was missing a few parts but other wise excellent and low count gun. I figure because it wasn't usable since parts were missing. So I began looking for parts got what I needed and picked up a beater 4". It's doing the same light strike deal and it has to be firing pin as far as I can tell. It fires fine with slide assembly off the 63/4" gun.

February 10, 2019, 01:38 PM	#12
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	Mr. Natural, When you remove the slide, you have to pull the slide back, press the button on top of the slide down HARD, let the slide move forward [while button pressed down] and then rotate slide stop lug lever [on right side] down, then slide the slide off the gun to the rear. Once the slide is off the pistol frame, the stop lug spring presses the stop lug back into the vertical position, and the lever on the right side rotates to just a bit below pointing straight forward. If you have taken the slide off, rotate the take down lever [stop lug lever] and the stop lug will rotate from vertical to pointing forward. The part that you see is moving is the stop lug. The takedown lever is connected to a shaft that slides through it, and is held in place by the trigger bar cover on the left side. A casual glance at that pivoting part may make it seem like 90 degrees, but you need to give it a critical glance. The impact area I am describing can only be viewed if you have the slide off [set it aside for now] and rotate the stop lug/takedown lever down, so the stop lug points forward. the space that is now open may have signs of being dented. This is the space that is directly under the front of those lugs that are on the frame. When the stop lug is pressed to the rear it can deform the metal over decades- especially with no driver spring [recoil spring to the rest of the world] replacements and/or High Velocity [Minimag-speed] ammo. If anyone uses Hyper-Velocity [Stinger or faster] ammo, the risk is much greater. The owners manual at time of sale said high velocity was ok. However, the consensus among those who have done research is that high velocity is best avoided, as there is no accuracy advantage over standard velocity and there is a greater risk of damage to the handgun over time. If you really get into High Standards, there is a dedicated sub-forum of rimfire central dot com for them. That is where I've learned as much as I have- the people there have taught me.