A Lady's Forum?

**Rich Lucibella** · November 11, 1998, 04:11 PM

A couple of our Moderators have noticed the preponderance of male Members here and have suggested that we consider a Forum dedicated specifically to the gentler(?) sex.

My initial reaction is that the concept is patronizing and sexist, as I have yet to find any shooting activity which cannot be performed at least as well by ladies as men. But then, I'm more than willing to be disabused of an incorrect assumption.

We've agreed to settle the issue by caucus. We'd very much appreciate input from our Members and, if applicable, their ladies.

Are there significant gender specific issues in defense and sport shooting? Can The Firing Line be used as a vehicle to introduce defense-conscious females to alternatives provided by the safe and responsible ownership of firearms?

Comments are welcome.
Thanks in advance.

The Staff of The Firing Line

ShadedDude · November 11, 1998, 09:50 PM

Its an interesting idea...but I like having the girls posting with the guys. But they may like having a forum to themselves...which in that case I am for it.
uhm...I didnt actually say anything did I?

Girls? What do you think?

------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.

fal308 · November 12, 1998, 10:35 AM

I'm willing to go either way with this issue as I believe that the shooting sports is one of a very few endeavours where gender makes no difference most of the time. The exception to that may be in open or CCW. IMHO it's easier to teach women as they are more receptive and don't carry on with the "macho" bit or "movie training" that they have after watching a flick or the TV.
Actually I like hearing the women's point of view. They usually bring up things that I wouldn't have thought of.

Art Eatman · November 13, 1998, 02:33 PM

Other than such physical difference as 1) relationship of belt-line and hips being different for women than for men; and 2) Some women's breasts being "in the way", the main reason for a women's forum would be the psychological aspect of having a woman moderate and speak to, what, the "cultural" or culturally-induced differences for guns as between men and women?

I agree with the previous poster that most of the issues concerning guns are the same for men as for women. Unfortunately, our culture has too many women asking the "wrong" questions for the average man to answer to "her" satisfaction.

Whatever works to get women past that first stage of nervousness about the "world of guns" is good. We've all seen the woman as a first-time shooter need reassurance more than actual training. Once you get past that, I'd rather teach a woman than a man, since their egos aren't involved and they don't have to un-learn all those Hollywood techniques...

Hope this ain't too convoluted, and is of some help. Best regards.

------------------
desertrat

Rob Pincus · November 13, 1998, 03:05 PM

I prefer not to discuss the problem, but to work closely with those women who have trouble carrying and drawing because their waist is too small and their breasts are too big

.

Seriously, I don't think there needs to be a "special place" for the women. BUT, if it would encourage more women to come to TFL if there was a women's ONLY forum, well, then that would be neat. I think having a lady's forum that the men can participate in would serve little purpose except to possibly stir up sexist arguments. I have noticed that most "lady's forums" end up dominated by guys either looking for dates or trying to seem much more intelligent than they could ever get away with in the other forums.
(both types of guys invariably get shot down by the enlightened women)

Ed Brunner · November 15, 1998, 05:20 AM

The idea of a "Forum" is to get together with ideas etc.
As Rich pointed out the issues are usually not gender-specific.
As to the idea of "shape" there are a lot of different shaped men out there too.
I like the idea of inclusion and open discussion from a number of viewpoints.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed

. · December 9, 1998, 06:33 AM

Is it significant that not a single female posted to this thread, but many voted for the current president? Did we miss something?

Kate · December 15, 1998, 10:56 AM

Mykl,
We didn't miss anything. Intially I was going to respond, but I saw that Rich and Ed Brunner pretty much read my mind and stated it so eloquently.
For the record, I don't think there is a need for a ladies only forum. As for the current president, he did not get my vote.
Take care.

Kate

Bushwhacker · December 18, 1998, 10:31 PM

I've got to agree with Rob 100%, why don't us guys try and get more women to sign up, maybe even hold a contest to see who gets the most women to sign up?Was that a hint to Rich and Rob ?

[This message has been edited by FLYERM14 (edited 12-18-98).]

Grayfox · December 18, 1998, 11:53 PM

I think you guys are taking too narrow a view here. The goal here is bigger than just bring the ladies to TFL, but to get them more involved in the shooting sports period.
So the next time you're in the gunshop or at the range and you notice a lady who seems to be having difficulty, take the time to offer help, be polite and don't treat like she's stupid. You might just make a new shooter and a friend.
Of course it wouln't hurt to tell her about TFL.

Rob Pincus · December 19, 1998, 12:00 AM

For the record, I wasn't saying we should try to attract more women to the forum and I don't think, well intentioned as I'm sure your idea was Flyer, that having a contest to see how many we can get would help in a meaningful way. Of course, I think we should try to attract more shooters in general.

I think we should be trying to attract more women to the entire sport, as I've said on several occasions.

The Ladies Charity Classic series run by the WSSF is a great program to get women involved with shooting. S&W is a big promoter of that series.

------------------
-Essayons

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November 11, 1998, 04:11 PM	#1
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	A couple of our Moderators have noticed the preponderance of male Members here and have suggested that we consider a Forum dedicated specifically to the gentler(?) sex. My initial reaction is that the concept is patronizing and sexist, as I have yet to find any shooting activity which cannot be performed at least as well by ladies as men. But then, I'm more than willing to be disabused of an incorrect assumption. We've agreed to settle the issue by caucus. We'd very much appreciate input from our Members and, if applicable, their ladies. Are there significant gender specific issues in defense and sport shooting? Can *The Firing Line* be used as a vehicle to introduce defense-conscious females to alternatives provided by the safe and responsible ownership of firearms? Comments are welcome. Thanks in advance. The Staff of *The Firing Line*

November 11, 1998, 09:50 PM	#2
ShadedDude Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: TN Posts: 254	Its an interesting idea...but I like having the girls posting with the guys. But they may like having a forum to themselves...which in that case I am for it. uhm...I didnt actually say anything did I? Girls? What do you think? ------------------ Mouse Assassins inc.

November 12, 1998, 10:35 AM	#3
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	I'm willing to go either way with this issue as I believe that the shooting sports is one of a very few endeavours where gender makes no difference most of the time. The exception to that may be in open or CCW. IMHO it's easier to teach women as they are more receptive and don't carry on with the "macho" bit or "movie training" that they have after watching a flick or the TV. Actually I like hearing the women's point of view. They usually bring up things that I wouldn't have thought of.

November 13, 1998, 02:33 PM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Other than such physical difference as 1) relationship of belt-line and hips being different for women than for men; and 2) Some women's breasts being "in the way", the main reason for a women's forum would be the psychological aspect of having a woman moderate and speak to, what, the "cultural" or culturally-induced differences for guns as between men and women? I agree with the previous poster that most of the issues concerning guns are the same for men as for women. Unfortunately, our culture has too many women asking the "wrong" questions for the average man to answer to "her" satisfaction. Whatever works to get women past that first stage of nervousness about the "world of guns" is good. We've all seen the woman as a first-time shooter need reassurance more than actual training. Once you get past that, I'd rather teach a woman than a man, since their egos aren't involved and they don't have to un-learn all those Hollywood techniques... Hope this ain't too convoluted, and is of some help. Best regards. ------------------ desertrat

November 13, 1998, 03:05 PM	#5
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	I prefer not to discuss the problem, but to work closely with those women who have trouble carrying and drawing because their waist is too small and their breasts are too big . Seriously, I don't think there needs to be a "special place" for the women. BUT, if it would encourage more women to come to TFL if there was a women's ONLY forum, well, then that would be neat. I think having a lady's forum that the men can participate in would serve little purpose except to possibly stir up sexist arguments. I have noticed that most "lady's forums" end up dominated by guys either looking for dates or trying to seem much more intelligent than they could ever get away with in the other forums. (both types of guys invariably get shot down by the enlightened women)

November 15, 1998, 05:20 AM	#6
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	The idea of a "Forum" is to get together with ideas etc. As Rich pointed out the issues are usually not gender-specific. As to the idea of "shape" there are a lot of different shaped men out there too. I like the idea of inclusion and open discussion from a number of viewpoints. ------------------ Better days to be, Ed

December 9, 1998, 06:33 AM	#7
. Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: My wife's house... Posts: 2,659	Is it significant that not a single female posted to this thread, but many voted for the current president? Did we miss something?

December 15, 1998, 10:56 AM	#8
Kate Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 1998 Posts: 0	Mykl, We didn't miss anything. Intially I was going to respond, but I saw that Rich and Ed Brunner pretty much read my mind and stated it so eloquently. For the record, I don't think there is a need for a ladies only forum. As for the current president, he did not get my vote. Take care. Kate

December 18, 1998, 10:31 PM	#9
Bushwhacker Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 1999 Location: Somewhere in USA Posts: 323	I've got to agree with Rob 100%, why don't us guys try and get more women to sign up, maybe even hold a contest to see who gets the most women to sign up?Was that a hint to Rich and Rob ? [This message has been edited by FLYERM14 (edited 12-18-98).]

December 18, 1998, 11:53 PM	#10
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	I think you guys are taking too narrow a view here. The goal here is bigger than just bring the ladies to TFL, but to get them more involved in the shooting sports period. So the next time you're in the gunshop or at the range and you notice a lady who seems to be having difficulty, take the time to offer help, be polite and don't treat like she's stupid. You might just make a new shooter and a friend. Of course it wouln't hurt to tell her about TFL.

December 19, 1998, 12:00 AM	#11
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	For the record, I wasn't saying we should try to attract more women to the forum and I don't think, well intentioned as I'm sure your idea was Flyer, that having a contest to see how many we can get would help in a meaningful way. Of course, I think we should try to attract more shooters in general. I think we should be trying to attract more women to the entire sport, as I've said on several occasions. The Ladies Charity Classic series run by the WSSF is a great program to get women involved with shooting. S&W is a big promoter of that series. ------------------ *-Essayons*