Choice of Over and Unders

[OldShooter]

So BMARM4, are you saying a beater, cheap, entry level gun can't fit and only an expensive top level gun will? Are you speaking for yourself or is this true for all of us? I can't understand why you have two of them and let your sons use them, much less yourself. I hate to think you are wrecking your fine shooting skills on Saturdays and non serious hunts.

Someone help me with IOW, I haven't figured that one out yet.

[Ruger4570]

I deceided to jump back in again. There is NO WAY you are going to get a quality O/U for $500. Ya, it will probably shoot and for a hunter it may last. I shoot probably 15,000 rounds a year and there is NO way a Stoger or any of the Turkish or 2 world country guns are going to last. Pure and simple.. It is impossible to manufacture an O/U for the same cost as a Rem 870 or 1100. If you think so, well, I am sorry, you are in some kind of dream world. Acid etched or laser engraving is NOT engraving, it is a silly attempt to fool people that are gulible, and of course,, it works. Browning, Berreta, Perazzi and others didn't get their reputation based on tacky looks. If a person can't afford a quality O/U, well get a Remington 1100 or 11-87 or a Berreta or a Benelli. Just spend your limited funds on a quality gun, even used as it will serve you better than a fancy POS. Think about it for a second, how could you buy quality for the price of some of these guns? Of course you can't. Don't get sucked up in the hype. If you do.. You lose in end

[weagle]

There are 2 that I can recommend from personal experience.

1. Baikal/Remington I bought one of the pre-remington import guns back in '98 and put about 6K rounds through it without a single hitch. It will not have the fit and finish of the other B guns, but if you can wear one out I'd like to hear about it. This is a design the Russians have been building for years and it's very durable. personally I'd look for a pre remington gun as the remington guns are not only more expensive, but they added some cheap cosmetic "upgrades" like the nickle receiver that I don't care for.

2. Since you seem to be into function over status, find yourself an old Marlin model 90. The marlin 90 is a wonderfully balanced target and game busting machine built by an icon of American gun manufacturing and 12 ga versions can be bought on the internet auction sites for $300 - $400. I've been putting 1000 plus rounds/month through my 12 Ga model 90 (apporx 10k so far) and it's still as tight as the day it left the factory. Most folks don't like the looks of the Marlin til they shoot one and then they are hooked.

My marlin 90's

[Shell Shucker]

Quality costs money; plain and simple. The cheap guns may go BANG but you cannot realistically compare them to "B guns" or better. Most do not have the fit or finish that a 30 year old 870 has. If you want QUALITY save your money. You may find that a pump or auto is a better gun in the low/medium price range.
Having said that, I'd rather see 30 shooters show up at the skeet range with new $500 O/Us than three show up with Brownings.......... Buy what you want. Just be aware of what you're buying.

[UGH]

I started shooting skeet a few months back and I was looking at some of the less expensive guns. They seemed ok. since I allready owned one Mossberg I was looking hard at the Mossberg silver reserve and thats what I ended up buying. Well I took it out and I did ok with it. The first thing I noticed was when I was cleaning it the upper barrel was tighter than the bottom when I pushed the jag through. I thought it could not be. But it was. After a while the trigger on the second barrel would malfunction and lock up. Irritating to say the least. A buddy of mine fealing a little sorry for me loaned me a Browning Citori to see the differance and I'll say that it is night and day. I ended up at buying a used Citori for around 1200.00. I will have this gun for life. The quality of my shooting has doubled and the last thing I worry about is if my gun is going to work or not. As for the Mossberg, Its gone never to return. Don't waist your money.

[ebutler462]

A Stoeger M2000 semiauto will fit into your budget. It is a high quality gun, probably one of the highest quality budget guns made in Turkey. Top quality tooling and precision fit not normally found in a Turkish gun. It is interesting to me that the M2000 beat the much higher dollar Franchi I-12 in performance tests.

Since most everyone has advised against a budget O/U, maybe you should consider a good semiauto. For under $500 you can get a new camo Advantage 4 M2000 with 5 chokes, including the tightest turkey I have seen patterned. Or you can get a used 1100 or 11-87 in your price range.

I have had good performance with my M2000.

[Zombie Steve]

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten. "
... but it's true IMHO.
Save up and get a Browning, Beretta... you get my point.

[Davis]

"There is NO WAY you are going to get a quality O/U for $500."

Perhaps new, but you can get a Savage 330 made by Valmet or 440 made by Fabarm. They are quality O/U's.

Davis

[timinkc]

I totally agree with several of the others who have said what we all know to be true... Quality Costs Money!!!! I had a Stoeger, it was ok, I guess. I got rid of it after about a year. I also shot one of the remingtons... Again, ok, I guess... Nothing like a quality gun... It's up to you, you can buy a gun that from a distance looks like a nice gun, or you can buy a nice gun, they are 2 different things. And no one on here can tell me you can buy an O/U gun for $500 that's really worth a d4mn. In my opinion the best you could do is a franchi for about $899. I would go with what others have said though, use the $500 for a quality pump, or wait till the bankroll has built up a bit more. P.S. I'm not trying to be some sort of gun snob. It's just that I've done exactly what you're talking about, and I felt like I wasted my money.... And I hate to waste money.

[Neanderthal]

I shoot a Stoeger Condor and it works perfectly every time! Don't let the people with a lot of money scare you away from this gun, or you'll miss a great shooter. The fit and finish is nice on mine, too, they must have improved them. Mine is only a year old. Find someone that will let you shoot theirs-I think you'll be impressed. I agree that if you shoot 1000+ rounds a year this may not be your best choice, but when used 90% for hunting like mine, I doubt I'll ever wear it out.

[JCN60]

There sure are alot of people troubled by the idea of buying a $500. O/U. Wonder why that is?

I've had a 101, Red Label & a Lanber I won. I hunt but don't shoot trap any more. All the guns worked fine. I like the Ruger best but for fit & finish/vs price, the Lanber wins. It was a $300. wholesale gun at the time. None ever needed repair.

[ahjack3]

If $500 is your absolute limit, you are pretty much limited to Baikals. A clays course near me keeps a few on hand for loaners/rentals, but they seem to be tough guns...

[jfrey123]

There's nothing better than taking one of these "cheap" O/U's and out shooting/embarhassing someone who paid $2000 but can't shoot well... Lots of fun at the ol' snotty shotty club

[fspic]

Turning the issue sideways 90 degrees I like my two Baikal 12's and a twenty. All are double trigger. Very rugged. One 12 is pre-Remington with fixed chokes. It is a good later model after a particular American importer gave 'em a kick in the pants and said to make the guns better. Then Remington took over distribution. My other two are Remington marked. I am cutting two stocks to straight form which will change their feel and require new extended butt pads - which in at least one case will be made from solid Gabon ebony.

Hit shotgunworld.com, doublegunBBS.com, or shotingsportsman.com. This last is a magazine with a decent web site but I and other people have been banned from it and so those expatriates started their own shotgun site. There is also an excellent doublegun E-zine to which I subscribe for about $12-18 per year. Is bi-monthly but you can download up to sixty pages of fabulous history on ol' crotch shotguns and bind it - which is what I do.

[Smitty in CT]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=83908877

Plus, your winning bid is tax deductable!!!

[perazzimx14]

jfrey123,

You would not believe the amount of people who shoot $2000.00 + guns that only shoot so they outshoot guys with $300.00 guns.

I am one of those snobs. Before you can shoot on my squad I need to see a receipt for the price you paid for your gun. Here is how it breaks down. If your gun costs:

1. $150.00 - $499.00 you cannot shoot on my squad. In fact you have to park at least three stalls away form my vehicle and I will not talk to you.

2. $500 - $1000 I may talk to you if I feel like it, but you are not allowed to talk to me.

3. $1001.00 - $1499.00 - you can shoot "one" practice round with me, but if you talk to me you must address me as "Sir" and I will not give you any pointers.

4. $1500 - $1999.00 - you can shoot practice with me, but not more than twice in a seven day time frame. I may also let you look at my gun.

5. $2000.00 - $2499.00 - you are allowed to shoot registered 16yd targets with me.

6. $2500 - $4000.00 you are allowed to shoot registered 16's. HDCP's and doubles with me.

7. $4001.00 and up - I would consider you a friend and you could even lead the squad if you desire.

[fspic]

If you want to get into it you could also chop and saw on a Baikal double SxS to enhance the appearance a bit. I was driven out of one high end case color shop with kicks, curses, blows, and oaths (figuratively speaking) and forbidden to even email them. They said they didn't work on cheap or low cost shotguns. I sought out two other shops and told them I would avenge myself on uppity types by having my receivers engraved with peasants, cabbages and turnips. That brought a silent and ominous "no" from one shop (imagine a gunfight about to start in a western town) and someone else begged out after some email exchanges (these guys likely know of each other's shops and have likely met occasionally).

I did find someone to do an engraving job and he is now doing the barrels. Someone at a shotgun site had a stock for sale which I bought as something to keep for adaptation to some other gun and I think this Italian stock can be adapted to the Baikal receiver. I will make decorative sideplates and use inlays of bone or ivory to close any unavoidable gaps. Some of this must be farmed out but I have the equipment to do much of the work.

[velocette]

Why don't you look in the for sale section of this most excellent forum and examine the Winchester 101 O/U 12 ga. offered for sale at $499.00?
An excellent quality shotgun that will last several lifetimes for less than half what an equal quality new one (or used for that matter) would cost. Give a great shotgun a new home where it will be cared for and used regularly.
I'll even offer you your money back if it is not better than what its claimed to be.

Roger

[kilgore33]

New to the O/U game. Have owned Pumps. Just bought my Dad the Savage Model 512 Goldwing. Surprised by how expensive O/Us and Side by Sides are. With such basic mechanisms relative to Semi-Autos or even Pumps, Bolts and Levers would like to know why they cost so much. Bought a Benelli Nova 12 Gauge Pump two years ago at significantly less than The Savage and love it.

[dabigguns357]

I will not even attempt to begin to know what i'm talking about when it comes to these types of firearms,but i will say this for Mossberg Silver reserve.There has been one sitting in our local walmart for about a year now and finilly the other day i noticed that it had a mark down tag on it.The original price was 477.98 and now it's 300.00 and still no one wants it.That tells me something about these guns,If nobody is even willing to buy it for 300.00 then how good is it.

[hogdogs]

If that was my WalMart I would own that gun Right Freakin' Now... it has to be 3 times nicer than a hunert buck NEF 20ga single...
Brent

[otteray]

I have the 20 ga. Mossberg SR and I like it a lot. A decent entry level O/U.
Firing pin issue has been resolved.
I like it. The point of aim is right on for me.
So what if the rude "snobs" don't approve; I'm not married to them and I don't hang out at the bar and gloat about my shotgun or my score that day.
My brother has a couple expensive Perazzi shotguns, is a master at trap and skeet; and he still talks to me. I am not as good as my brother (500 straight guy); but I still average in the low 20s with an occasional 25.

Close enough score for fun and camaraderie, anyway; if you are keeping score anyway, like it really matters for an enjoyable morning of shooting!
My Mossberg SR hits clays as well as any other shotgun I have;
Win SX2 12ga, Win 1400 12 ga, Remington 11-48 16ga.
Also, when going in the field for birds, a cheap reliable "truck" shotgun that you don't mind getting damaged, is a plus. It's a good inexpensive O/U for casual use.
Will it last as long reliably as these shotguns just mentioned?
Only time will tell.
A good, used Winchester 101 O/U 12 ga. mentioned here awhile back
for $499, would make my heart sing, though!

[olddrum1]

If you are spending 500 dollars on a new gun then any of them will do. You will be equally disappointed in all of them if you shoot alot. If you are looking for a used gun you might keep your eye out for a used SKB. They are very durable, handle well, and occasionly you can find them with some really great wood. The older Weatherbys were SKB for a while.

[oneounceload]

I will not even attempt to begin to know what i'm talking about when it comes to these types of firearms,but i will say this for Mossberg Silver reserve.There has been one sitting in our local walmart for about a year now and finilly the other day i noticed that it had a mark down tag on it.The original price was 477.98 and now it's 300.00 and still no one wants it.That tells me something about these guns,If nobody is even willing to buy it for 300.00 then how good is it

quality O/U's, and especially SXS's have a lot handwork involved in fitting, regulating the barrels, and finishing. That labor is expensive and raises the cost of a quality gun.

With those types, you DO get what you are paying for - if your goal is to shoot 500 shells through it in your lifetime, a cheaply made gun may hold up; if your goal is to shoot 500 shells 2-4 times a week, the cheaply-made gun won't last very long at all....

decide what you will do with it and go from there

[Raggedman]

Jebus! The man said he was spending no more than $500...

Why suggest he do otherwise?

Some folks, as it happens, don't have the means, or the interest to invest more than they are comfortable spending.

This is maybe where I should steer the OP toward a nice Krieghoff. Especially since "Engraving" seems to be such an important criteria with some. (The price tag will, coincidentally, also allow him entree into the rarefied world of yet another commenter)
I've shot Kreighoffs...no better, and no worse than my lowly Stoeger. Which is to say, a scant few clays flew away to prosper and increase...

Oh yeah...and lets not forget the ever-important matter of "Prestige"!
The Kreighoffs is got dayseffs plenny-o-dat, yanno

I wonder why more people don't own them'?


Anyway, jfrey, I'm sure any O/U on your short list will service your needs just fine

My Condor, BTW, is butter smooth and rock solid

Regards

Ed