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Old December 12, 2017, 10:32 AM   #26
Lohman446
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Let me at least explain the reasoning behind it.

I have slowly been switching over to being comfortable with a G19 as EDC. I have gone around in my mind about carrying one spare magazine or two. I believe that you should practice in a way that allows the use of the firearm to be virtually automatic so your mind can work through the situation at hand. As such you practice to draw the front magazine from a pouch first and then the rear.

By the time you get to that third magazine in a G19 you will have fired 31 rounds and failed to stop the threat. However you will also still be "in the fight" in that you are still changing out that magazine.

The thought process was a consideration of the situations that would result in such a concern. The only ones I can see are being fired upon from behind cover or body armor of some type. This is why the thought of having a different "exotic" ammo such as the Extreme Penatrator came into play.

I don't think you should place yourself in a situation where you would consciously be deciding what magazine to load due to ammunition in it during a gun fight. I was imply laying this out as a "escalation" of ammo if the situation had failed to resolve itself after the first two magazines.
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Old December 14, 2017, 06:01 PM   #27
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I go for what is the most reliable, accurate and consistent ammunition.
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Old December 25, 2017, 09:48 PM   #28
Tacticool1976
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what ever my EDC might be for the day, my spare mags have the same ammo in it..

i also want to make sure i am going to get the same point of aim / point of impact if i am shooting at someone..
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Old December 25, 2017, 11:00 PM   #29
DMK
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I have a hard enough time just researching round effectiveness and testing that ammo for reliability and accuracy. I have two loads that I currently trust for my 9mm and .40 semi-autos and one load that I trust in my revolvers. This is after shooting at least 200-300 rds per gun with no malfunction whatsoever and acceptable POI to POA.

I buy at least a few hundred rounds of carry ammo a year in each caliber and try to shoot around two boxes a year of that (including rounds that were carried and downgraded to practice ammo) to continually verify accuracy and reliability. I like to have a cache of at least 500rds of carry ammo in each caliber in case of pricing craziness or otherwise lack of availability.

I might have different loads in different guns, but all loaded mags for a particular gun will have the same ammo. I don't want to take any chances with a round that might shoot differently in any way.
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Old December 27, 2017, 04:08 AM   #30
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No, they are not! Under the hammer, so to speak, is a 147g Win. Ranger T. Followed by 15 more rounds of the same. Glock 19 Gen 4, with TruGlo night sights.

The spare magazine, a G17 mag. full of NATO hardball. I can not really give a good answer for Sub Gun Ammo, except the situation might have deteriorated, as in the case of bad people who have now taken up residence in a vehicle.

Most of the fights I have been involved in have been fists or feet.
Some handheld helpers as well, a very old, very hard bankers ruler, 18" long, I believe made of ebony? Of course, the early 60s in Liverpool night Clubs. The UK. Was not the kinder, gentler "Security" of today, lawsuit City.

But now at 82, I feel that being as wide awake as possible, and carrying a very reliable 9mm pistol. Is as good as it gets.
And things can go wrong, anywhere, anytime, yes?
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Old February 1, 2018, 05:49 PM   #31
In The Ten Ring
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Let's face it: people are getting fatter all the time. 18 inches penetration in gel may not cut it.

That is why I only carry HNTB rounds by Through & Through Ammo company.

HNTB stands for "Hot Knife Through Butter" and is rather unheard of but I am sure it will catch on with time. It's a 150 grain depleted uranium core in an all copper jacket. It penetrates!

***

I made all of that up.....if you want to carry a spare mag full of FMJ or these "Xtreme Penetrators" that's fine. After the Aurora, Colorado theater shooting, I considered carrying a 7.62x25mm Tokarev as backup, loaded with S&B FMJ....it's been shown to penetrate soft body armor, which that monster was reported to have been wearing.

https://www.lehighdefense.com/pages/xtreme-penetrator
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Old February 1, 2018, 06:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
That is why I only carry HNTB rounds by Through & Through Ammo company.

HNTB stands for "Hot Knife Through Butter" and is rather unheard of but I am sure it will catch on with time. It's a 150 grain depleted uranium core in an all copper jacket. It penetrates!

***

I made all of that up....

Good one. : )
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Old February 1, 2018, 10:20 PM   #33
nanney1
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I'm thinking out loud here, so just bear with me. I'm thinking that some folks might load their 15 rd mag like this... the first 10 they load are cheap target rounds and the five at the top of the mag are JHP. The reasons:

1. The first five shots out of the mag are in the event of an up close self defense encounter and then to get away or behind cover. And then it doesn't really matter what you've got left in the mag if the first five hollow points didn't stop the threat. Or...

2. The first five shots are for the very unlikely event of a self defense encounter. And the remaining 10 are to save on the cost of the ammo in the mag.

I would bet that some people load their high capacity mags this way.
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Old February 2, 2018, 11:05 AM   #34
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2damnold4this: thank you and I love your name.

nanney1, that's not bad thinking actually! I believe Jeff Cooper (whom we all know and love) advocated carrying FMJ in .45 ACP as it didn't really matter if it expanded or not. LOL

I heard of a local cop that carried Black Talon round up the pipe and a mag full of FMJ. I think he was a victim of hype more than anything though.
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Old February 2, 2018, 11:13 AM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
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This has gone off the rails, back off from Internet blather - professional folks load their magazines with a high quality JHP. NO alternating rounds, etc.

There are high quality 45 ACP JHP nowadays. So the past was then, this is now.
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Old February 2, 2018, 01:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
...professional folks load their magazines with a high quality JHP...
Yeah.

Unless they can't due to (possibly incorrectly interpreted) law. Some professionals don't have the option to use JHP, as it's "too inhumane". Such is the case for those serving in combat zones.

Which brings me to the point of this thread. Some service members would carry JHP rounds anyway. However, in order to thwart the lurking busy-body, who didn't have to go toe-to-toe with nefarious folks who would never consider the "humanity" of any particular action, these service members would load their magazines so that the first few rounds were the issued FMJ, thus giving the appearance of compliance.

Don't get it twisted - this was not a technique that was intended to deal with a situation where the threat didn't resolve with those first few rounds of FMJ, and therefore required the hollow points. These folks would certainly have preferred all their magazines full of JHP.
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Old February 4, 2018, 03:59 AM   #37
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Yes for EDC....and i haven't yet met a bullet I want to be shot with....
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Old February 6, 2018, 05:24 AM   #38
Brit
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Did I not read somewhere that JHP ammo was going to be issued to our Service Members?
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Old February 6, 2018, 10:55 AM   #39
In The Ten Ring
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Federal developed the EFMJ (expanding full metal jacket) rounds that might have gotten around those silly FMJ laws. *That line was later dropped, Corbon has Power N Ball and Hornady has a plug in their XTP line that mimics a FMJ.

I carry all hollowpoint and I practice with what I carry. In .45 though, I never feel bad carrying all FMJ.
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Old February 6, 2018, 04:04 PM   #40
hdwhit
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Quote:
Lohman446 asked:
Are all of your carry magazines loaded the same?
Yes.

The way I look at it, if I ever have to actually produce a gun with the intent to use it, my limbic system is going to be in overdrive and I'm going to have to rely primarily on my training to take over.

In that crisis moment, my ammunition has to perform EXACTLY as it did on the range when I was training. I can't afford to have a mix of ammunition that might perform differently so every mag is loaded with exactly the same loads.
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Old February 6, 2018, 04:16 PM   #41
hdwhit
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Quote:
Brit asked:
Did I not read somewhere that JHP ammo was going to be issued to our Service Members?
The United States is not a signatory to all protocols of the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, but voluntarily follows them most of the time; particularly when dealing with countries that are signatories.

Various ammunition that does not conform to the Hague protocols is issued, principally to Special Operations troops, from time to time based on mission requirements.
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Old February 6, 2018, 07:50 PM   #42
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YES !!!
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Old February 7, 2018, 11:06 AM   #43
Satchmoeddie
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Too much to think about. BEEN THERE! Trust ME. Pick some ammo & use it.

I have a nice picture of me in the back of a police car. I am being basically released to go obtain emergency medical care. I fired 3 shots. I had 11 rounds left. 1970s Browning Hi Power MKiii, loaded with Golden Saber 124 Grain +P, no one died, and I put an abrupt stop to a raving meth addict's rampage with a Chevy S10 4x4 pickup truck. He was arrested for the same thing 5 years later. The police found a stairwell in the parking garage with no security cameras, and gave him free lessons in falling down stairs, and an advanced class in falling up stairs. Then they put the boots to him. I lived it, and can say this: "I don't have time to think about what ammo is loaded in which magazine." I have things like, "Am I going to die tonight." "How badly am I hurt, and what do I do next?" "I don't have a clean shot, unless I move to another location, and what is a good location?" "Don't shoot the tread of the tires, get the sidewalls." "Is this a-hole's family going to sue me, for killing him." "When will one of those drunks down range realize he need to get behind cover or move?" "Will I go to jail" (That one was a fleeting thought. There was no way in hell any AG was going to prosecute that case). "Do I want a crazy person in control of 6000 pounds of metal on wheels, or a dead guy?" I am not breaching a door while some dope dealer sleeps off a 3 day meth run . I am trying really hard not to die, and not to kill anyone in the process of not dying. It will cost you about $50 but case number: 2003-32070832 from the Phoenix Arizona Police Department. (Note: They will not collate anything, and it's long report from 5 or 6 officers, including a detective) If I never have to do it again, it will still be way too soon. I bought another Hi Power, but I usually carry a German Sig Sauer P228R now. LEO HST or LEO Golden Sabers, usually 124 grain. .40 S&W is Winchester Defender 180 Grain, or LEO HST. I stayed with 9mm during the .40 craze. Now that people are dumping the .40.......... Why not? It's an excellent compromise round. OH, AND UNLESS I AM ON A ROAD TRIP, I ONLY HAVE ONE MAGAZINE WITH ME, AND SOMETIMES A SMALL BACKUP GUN. IF I JUST HAVE THE BACKUP GUN, I HAVE 2 MAGS, (7+6). IF 13 OR 16 ROUNDS WON'T DO IT, I REALLY NEED AN AR 15, A MINI 14, OR AN AK 47. 46 ROUNDS? I DON'T LIVE IN 1980s EL SALVADOR! (YET) A little German solo shoulder holster and the P228, with 16 rounds, and or (usually or) a baby Glock 43 in a belly band, with 1 spare 6 round magazine. I probably won't ever need more than 6 rounds. 0 rounds sounds much nicer.

Last edited by Satchmoeddie; February 7, 2018 at 11:23 AM.
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Old February 8, 2018, 05:57 PM   #44
nanney1
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Paul Harrell has a new video out regarding mixing ammo. Worth watching.
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Old February 8, 2018, 06:04 PM   #45
Glenn E. Meyer
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Have a link? Also it is polite to summarize it for us. Please do that.
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Old February 8, 2018, 07:11 PM   #46
2damnold4this
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Here is a link to Harrell's video: link

Harrell gives the reasons some people mix ammunition then gives the reasons he doesn't recommend mixing ammunition.
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Old February 8, 2018, 07:18 PM   #47
nanney1
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One reason Harrell mentions that could be a good reason to mix is in the unlikely case you have a bad batch of ammo. By mixing different ammo, it is extremely unlikely to get a bad batch from two different manufacturers at the same time.

The main reason he recommends not to mix is because mixing ammo is something that criminals do.
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Old February 8, 2018, 07:48 PM   #48
Glenn E. Meyer
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Thanks so much. That was very useful. The major points were the possibility of different impact points for rounds and that mixed loads may produce a negative appearance for you by the authorities. The need for increasing penetration in a back up mag didn't come up if you use modern quality defensive rounds.

He also mentioned that having a bad batch was extremely unlikely as it happened to him maybe once or twice in his career. It does argue for practicing malfunction drills. We do that every once in awhile by taking someone's mag and putting in a dummy round somewhere in the load. One way to get more practice on this is to be a handloader - if I see a gun go bad, it's usually handloads. Now, this is somewhat in gest. I'm sure your handloads always work. This past weekend, I saw malfunctions with someone's 1911 and an AR. Sent the former guy to go buy some factory ammo.

I think that pretty much settles it.
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Old February 8, 2018, 08:15 PM   #49
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I would think the risk of a bad lot of ammo could be greatly reduced by testing a portion of the lot in your carry firearm.
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Old February 8, 2018, 09:19 PM   #50
Sequins
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I carry different lots of identical ammunition in my magazines, specifically to minimize the likelihood of a bad lot. I vastly prefer Speer GDHP ammunition so when I buy the boxes of 50 I shoot a magazine to keep up my familiarity and ensure it's "good" ammo, then put it into the inventory. At this point I have maybe 5-6 half shot boxes and I have my carry mags loaded with a few rounds from each.
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