H&R Springfield Officer Model Problem

Deltadart · October 4, 2019, 07:59 PM

I have one of the H&R Officer Model Springfields. The rear sight, a folding tang sight, however mounted in a pocket in the wood behind not on the tang has broken. Does anyone have a suggested source for a direct replacement for this sight?

**4V50 Gary** · October 5, 2019, 03:22 PM

I would have a piece of metal inlayed that the tang sight could be screwed down onto. It would look good.

Deltadart · October 5, 2019, 08:57 PM

Gary
Do I am wondering if the Pedersoli Soule for their version of the Trapdoor would fit. Have you ever heard of someone doing that. If they are interchangeable that would be perfect. The original H&R is not the best sight and this may be the time for an upgrade.
Thanks
Paul

fourbore · October 6, 2019, 09:42 AM

I have my eye on a local Officers Trapdoor. I dont like the cheesy tang sight. It may not be an accurate replica but it looks like a potential fun shooter. And old enough to get my attention over an eye-tie repro. This post got me thinking about the sights.

I found this on another forum.

Quote:

RS-CREED-3-WE Creedmoor Vernier Tang Sight, for Mid Range competition, with 3" elevation and windage, plus true Vertical alignment . . . $64.95

If you check this on the Track of the Wolf web , catalog it gives a bit morer info. Not a real expensive sight . If you are looking for some pinpoint shooting you may want something more. But it suit me and my pocket book!. I put it on myself , not a good idea. But if you are handy at all it can be done . I tried to just file down the base of the ladder to fit the original base on the rifle but couldn't get the spring to cooperate so I inlet the complete new sight base. I had to use wood screws instead of the metal ones which came with the sight.
As I said it works for me .

The sight link:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...2/RS-CREED-3-E

Another option might be to file the sight base to fit the gun and keep the gun original. Less risk - IMHO.

Deltadart · October 6, 2019, 01:47 PM

This may be the perfect answer with Gary's suggestion of inletting a metal base to attach this sight to. Looks like good quality at a reasonable price.
Thank you very much.
Paul

Deltadart · October 6, 2019, 08:17 PM

four bore
I checked the sight at Track of the Wolf and it looks like it will fit pretty well. I have ask for drawings so I can check a little further. But the cost is certainly in line with what I would be happy spending. I am going to put a Lyman 17AMI up front to help a little.
The H&R Trapdoor is a replica, not an exact duplicate, certainly the purist will be glad to point out the differences. There are some that are a concern which you have probably heard about. The stock is different some, the hard facing is a little strange, seems to have a lot of orange in it, but so what. Another is the ejector biting the cartridge rim. It just needs to be filed a little to fix. The main issue is the cam lock. But I think if you are careful with it you will be just fine. Some have said the main spring is soft and should be replaced. May be on some rifles not all. The rear sight is just not good. I will do follow up post after I get it fixed or most likely replaced. Overall it is a fun gun to shoot, and accurate with the right loads, but full power loads in a light rifle bounce around some.
Thanks again
Paul

fourbore · October 7, 2019, 01:28 PM

I was reading the product listing again and see that sight is available with a choice of two bases.

Deltadart · October 7, 2019, 03:08 PM

Four Bore
I saw that. I do have some other information as well.
I contacted Lee Shaver Gun Sights. He offers a direct replacement drop in sight for the H&R Trapdoor Officer model in his Soule line. This is a special order sight not listed on his web page. He calls this the economy line, however it looks pretty good. Still at $260 and shipping it is not cheap. The upside is no gunsmithing required, it is a quality Soule with windage, and 3" mid range elevation, and the original low quality factory sight is gone. The down side is as always cost, however I am thinking the benefits out weigh the one time cost.
Best Regards
Paul

Deltadart · October 7, 2019, 07:44 PM

Four Bore
Here is an update. I spoke with Mr. Shaver today as a follow up to his email. The procedure is to drive the pin most of the way out on the existing base, leave the base in place and the leaf spring. On my rifle the pin would stay in the left hand ear. Put the new sight mast in the place of the old sight mast and drive the pin back into the original position. So you use the original base, spring, and pin. He has the parts in stock to assemble the sights and will assemble and ship on receipt of an order. I did not ask, but I think the turn around time will be about 2 or 3 days. Also he quoted the price of $260 plus $10 for priority mail. This looks like a very simple fix, a little spendy, but no gunsmithing and a much higher quality sight over the original.
Now I have to get that cam issue resolved, do a little trigger work and I think it will be a fairly good rifle.
Best Regards
Paul

fourbore · October 8, 2019, 02:00 AM

That has to be the path of least resistance and a high quality option. I think you are probably best to pay a little more and go this route.

I am planning to visit the local shop this afternoon and see if the H&R is still there. I got a few bills due. I wont be buying. I will factor in what I learned here. There are so many guns and so little time ....

Deltadart · October 8, 2019, 08:33 AM

Fourbore
I agree, that is the path of least resistance, very simple. And I like simple and easy. So many guns, so little time

If the H&R is still there, the one thing you may want to look at is the cam that rotates to lock the breech bolt down when the action is closed. This is the source of most worry about the rifle. Normally on an original you can just push down on the action with your thumb and the cam rotates to allow the bolt to go down and then rotates back in to battery by force of a coil spring. Originals have a one piece cam and shaft so the cam is not able to move independently of the shaft. On the HR the cam is held in place by a small set screw on a round shaft. It seems to me the closing of the bolt normally can cause this cam to rotate some and the set screw jams holding the cam in an unlock position even to the point where the small spring is not able to force the cam rotation back to the lock position. Not good. There are ways to fix or prevent all that from happening.

fourbore · October 8, 2019, 04:24 PM

I stopped by today. The Trapdoor is sold. There are two more around that I have made note of. Both are pushing $1k. Both Officers. This one was much less cost. Not a big deal. A coincidence this was posted while I had an eye on one.

Deltadart · October 8, 2019, 08:23 PM

FourBore
Pretty common to see the better H&R OMs around 9 hundred to 1K, if unfired.
Lee Shaver is shipping my sight out in the next couple of days so I do an update when it is here and installed. Once you find the one you like I am sure you will enjoy it. You may look for a Pedersoli Rifle as well. They are a lot more new in the box but there may be some good used ones out there.

fourbore · October 8, 2019, 09:30 PM

Actually, I am already into the old Trapdoors pretty deep. My favorite is a 50/70 that Bannerman cut down to 24" barrel. I could not believe my luck at $300. I really enjoy shooting that short rifle. It is a gun nut thing, I guess. I thought an H&R with good sights might let me up my game or simply feed my latest fetish. At 1k, I can get another antique and fill in a design gap.

Deltadart · October 8, 2019, 10:21 PM

FourBore
I keep thinking I might just take the plunge one day and buy an original. I have seen a few I liked at the shows but I just don't have the collector knowledge to know if it is a good deal or not. Most that I like are near 1500, which is a leap. I will continue to look, think there is a show next month at Coeur D' Alene so not to far away. I have had only a passing interest in the Trapdoor for years, but honestly had a rather dim view of them, I think they got a bad undeserved rap for a lot of people including me. Really did not know much about them, other than as some said it is a weak action, so be careful with ammo. That was about as far as it went. I have been reading a lot about them, now and have developed a respect for what they are and what they are capable of.

fourbore · October 9, 2019, 02:19 PM

I was as surprised as you with the trapdoors. My goal was to get one and move on to earlier USGI models. I have the first 50/70, the M1866 and last 45/70, the M1888. I replaced the front blade (taller) on the 45/70 to get on steel at 100 yards with a 6 oclock hold.

It does take some study to buy the old guns. You will probably want a 45/70. I got "The .45-70 Springfield" By Poyer and Riesch. I also have a 50/70 book by Hosmer. I found two local shops that had near 20 trapdoors between the two. I was lucky to have this local resource. Reading the book, looking at guns, back to the books then the guns until I started to get a feel for what was right and how much it mattered to me.

A good clean 45/70 Cadet (2" less barrel) can be had for $800+ ish. The full rifles are a little higher, say $1,000. The carbines are harder with many cut down rifles and cost a lot more. I like the rifles.

I shoot cowboy factory loads in 45/70. I hand load with FF black powder and with Blackhorn 209 in 50/70.

Tidewater_Kid · October 9, 2019, 07:52 PM

I love my trapdoors. I have a Bannerman 1866 Short Rifle, but my favorite is an 1868 Carbine I made up from a bad barrel.

Deltadart · October 9, 2019, 07:59 PM

FourBore
Thanks for the information. I ordered the book today on Amazon. Should be here Friday. I am looking into a cadet model. See a couple of them on line, and I am certain the gun show will have some next month. I do want to stay with the .45-70 cartridge, have several molds and couple hundred pieces of brass. Some of the stuff is pretty old, from the late 70s for the Marlin 1895 and rebuilt rolling block, long time ago. I will do as you suggest and study that book closely. Who knows may have one in a month or so. Depending on what happens I may need to rethink the H&R.

fourbore · October 9, 2019, 08:20 PM

TW-Kid

I like those. The work on your 1866 is very similar to how my 1863 was done.

I have what I believe to be a Bannerman 1866 trapdoor (mixed parts) and another M1863 front loader (cut with original parts). I know Bannerman can be a generic term. I am working on the 1863 front sight. IMHO-These guns are under appreciated little gems.

Tidewater_Kid · October 12, 2019, 03:01 PM

fourbore,

I like those too! I silver soldered the front sight on my faux 1868 carbine.

fourbore · October 31, 2019, 06:24 AM

I ended up using Brownell Hi-Force 44 low temp silver solder on the front sights and its held up so far.

Deltadart · November 19, 2019, 01:30 PM

the Lee Shaver replacement sight for the H&R Trapdoor Officer model Springfield. The sight is excellent in manufacture, fully adjustable for elevation and windage, attractive, and easy to install. If you want pics pm me with your email.

October 4, 2019, 07:59 PM	#1
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Officer Model Problem I have one of the H&R Officer Model Springfields. The rear sight, a folding tang sight, however mounted in a pocket in the wood behind not on the tang has broken. Does anyone have a suggested source for a direct replacement for this sight?

October 5, 2019, 03:22 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I would have a piece of metal inlayed that the tang sight could be screwed down onto. It would look good. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 5, 2019, 08:57 PM	#3
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Pedersoli Gary Do I am wondering if the Pedersoli Soule for their version of the Trapdoor would fit. Have you ever heard of someone doing that. If they are interchangeable that would be perfect. The original H&R is not the best sight and this may be the time for an upgrade. Thanks Paul

October 6, 2019, 01:47 PM	#5
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle This may be the perfect answer with Gary's suggestion of inletting a metal base to attach this sight to. Looks like good quality at a reasonable price. Thank you very much. Paul

October 6, 2019, 08:17 PM	#6
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle four bore I checked the sight at Track of the Wolf and it looks like it will fit pretty well. I have ask for drawings so I can check a little further. But the cost is certainly in line with what I would be happy spending. I am going to put a Lyman 17AMI up front to help a little. The H&R Trapdoor is a replica, not an exact duplicate, certainly the purist will be glad to point out the differences. There are some that are a concern which you have probably heard about. The stock is different some, the hard facing is a little strange, seems to have a lot of orange in it, but so what. Another is the ejector biting the cartridge rim. It just needs to be filed a little to fix. The main issue is the cam lock. But I think if you are careful with it you will be just fine. Some have said the main spring is soft and should be replaced. May be on some rifles not all. The rear sight is just not good. I will do follow up post after I get it fixed or most likely replaced. Overall it is a fun gun to shoot, and accurate with the right loads, but full power loads in a light rifle bounce around some. Thanks again Paul

October 7, 2019, 01:28 PM	#7
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I was reading the product listing again and see that sight is available with a choice of two bases.

October 7, 2019, 03:08 PM	#8
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle Sight Four Bore I saw that. I do have some other information as well. I contacted Lee Shaver Gun Sights. He offers a direct replacement drop in sight for the H&R Trapdoor Officer model in his Soule line. This is a special order sight not listed on his web page. He calls this the economy line, however it looks pretty good. Still at $260 and shipping it is not cheap. The upside is no gunsmithing required, it is a quality Soule with windage, and 3" mid range elevation, and the original low quality factory sight is gone. The down side is as always cost, however I am thinking the benefits out weigh the one time cost. Best Regards Paul

October 7, 2019, 07:44 PM	#9
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle Sight Four Bore Here is an update. I spoke with Mr. Shaver today as a follow up to his email. The procedure is to drive the pin most of the way out on the existing base, leave the base in place and the leaf spring. On my rifle the pin would stay in the left hand ear. Put the new sight mast in the place of the old sight mast and drive the pin back into the original position. So you use the original base, spring, and pin. He has the parts in stock to assemble the sights and will assemble and ship on receipt of an order. I did not ask, but I think the turn around time will be about 2 or 3 days. Also he quoted the price of $260 plus $10 for priority mail. This looks like a very simple fix, a little spendy, but no gunsmithing and a much higher quality sight over the original. Now I have to get that cam issue resolved, do a little trigger work and I think it will be a fairly good rifle. Best Regards Paul

October 8, 2019, 02:00 AM	#10
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	That has to be the path of least resistance and a high quality option. I think you are probably best to pay a little more and go this route. I am planning to visit the local shop this afternoon and see if the H&R is still there. I got a few bills due. I wont be buying. I will factor in what I learned here. There are so many guns and so little time ....

October 8, 2019, 08:33 AM	#11
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle Sight Fourbore I agree, that is the path of least resistance, very simple. And I like simple and easy. So many guns, so little time If the H&R is still there, the one thing you may want to look at is the cam that rotates to lock the breech bolt down when the action is closed. This is the source of most worry about the rifle. Normally on an original you can just push down on the action with your thumb and the cam rotates to allow the bolt to go down and then rotates back in to battery by force of a coil spring. Originals have a one piece cam and shaft so the cam is not able to move independently of the shaft. On the HR the cam is held in place by a small set screw on a round shaft. It seems to me the closing of the bolt normally can cause this cam to rotate some and the set screw jams holding the cam in an unlock position even to the point where the small spring is not able to force the cam rotation back to the lock position. Not good. There are ways to fix or prevent all that from happening.

October 8, 2019, 04:24 PM	#12
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I stopped by today. The Trapdoor is sold. There are two more around that I have made note of. Both are pushing $1k. Both Officers. This one was much less cost. Not a big deal. A coincidence this was posted while I had an eye on one.

October 8, 2019, 08:23 PM	#13
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle Sight FourBore Pretty common to see the better H&R OMs around 9 hundred to 1K, if unfired. Lee Shaver is shipping my sight out in the next couple of days so I do an update when it is here and installed. Once you find the one you like I am sure you will enjoy it. You may look for a Pedersoli Rifle as well. They are a lot more new in the box but there may be some good used ones out there.

October 8, 2019, 09:30 PM	#14
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Actually, I am already into the old Trapdoors pretty deep. My favorite is a 50/70 that Bannerman cut down to 24" barrel. I could not believe my luck at $300. I really enjoy shooting that short rifle. It is a gun nut thing, I guess. I thought an H&R with good sights might let me up my game or simply feed my latest fetish. At 1k, I can get another antique and fill in a design gap.

October 8, 2019, 10:21 PM	#15
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle FourBore I keep thinking I might just take the plunge one day and buy an original. I have seen a few I liked at the shows but I just don't have the collector knowledge to know if it is a good deal or not. Most that I like are near 1500, which is a leap. I will continue to look, think there is a show next month at Coeur D' Alene so not to far away. I have had only a passing interest in the Trapdoor for years, but honestly had a rather dim view of them, I think they got a bad undeserved rap for a lot of people including me. Really did not know much about them, other than as some said it is a weak action, so be careful with ammo. That was about as far as it went. I have been reading a lot about them, now and have developed a respect for what they are and what they are capable of.

October 9, 2019, 02:19 PM	#16
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I was as surprised as you with the trapdoors. My goal was to get one and move on to earlier USGI models. I have the first 50/70, the M1866 and last 45/70, the M1888. I replaced the front blade (taller) on the 45/70 to get on steel at 100 yards with a 6 oclock hold. It does take some study to buy the old guns. You will probably want a 45/70. I got "The .45-70 Springfield" By Poyer and Riesch. I also have a 50/70 book by Hosmer. I found two local shops that had near 20 trapdoors between the two. I was lucky to have this local resource. Reading the book, looking at guns, back to the books then the guns until I started to get a feel for what was right and how much it mattered to me. A good clean 45/70 Cadet (2" less barrel) can be had for $800+ ish. The full rifles are a little higher, say $1,000. The carbines are harder with many cut down rifles and cost a lot more. I like the rifles. I shoot cowboy factory loads in 45/70. I hand load with FF black powder and with Blackhorn 209 in 50/70.

October 9, 2019, 07:59 PM	#18
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	H&R Springfield Rifle Sight FourBore Thanks for the information. I ordered the book today on Amazon. Should be here Friday. I am looking into a cadet model. See a couple of them on line, and I am certain the gun show will have some next month. I do want to stay with the .45-70 cartridge, have several molds and couple hundred pieces of brass. Some of the stuff is pretty old, from the late 70s for the Marlin 1895 and rebuilt rolling block, long time ago. I will do as you suggest and study that book closely. Who knows may have one in a month or so. Depending on what happens I may need to rethink the H&R.

October 12, 2019, 03:01 PM	#20
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	fourbore, I like those too! I silver soldered the front sight on my faux 1868 carbine.

October 31, 2019, 06:24 AM	#21
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I ended up using Brownell Hi-Force 44 low temp silver solder on the front sights and its held up so far.

November 19, 2019, 01:30 PM	#22
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Update on rear sight the Lee Shaver replacement sight for the H&R Trapdoor Officer model Springfield. The sight is excellent in manufacture, fully adjustable for elevation and windage, attractive, and easy to install. If you want pics pm me with your email. Last edited by Deltadart; November 19, 2019 at 04:31 PM.