Inheritance

Harry Callahan · February 24, 2019, 05:39 AM

My son has a friend who's father recently passed and left him a number of firearms. Most pretty common but one seems special. It is a Colt 1911 which seems to be from 1943 and is in excellent shape. I have a couple questions however. The Colt says "Property of US Government". Does this mean it could be confiscated if ever serviced by someone? Also, these items reside in the People's Republik of Illinois. Since they are inherited are they still subject to a mandatory FFL transfer? TIA.

briandg · February 24, 2019, 05:54 AM

Keep in mind that it was only US government property while they still owned it. The govt sells surplus products every day, and hundreds of thousands of used or surplus guns were sold, as well as millions of rounds of ammunition.

Since they engraved it into the steel, rather than putting a luggage tag on it, it will forever say that. It doesn't mean that it is still and will forever be property of the government.

Unless illinois doesn't allow a gun to change hands as a gift, there's nothing that I can think of that could complicate it. Personal property that is given as an inheritance isn't generally considered as part of an estate to be taxed or regulated in other ways.

If the gun had been registered in some way, maybe there would be a need to change the registration. The thing to remember, though, is that even when a background check is run prior to a purchase, the information of whether or not the purchase took place and whether you do in fact own the gun that was inquired about isn't available.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 24, 2019, 06:18 AM

You wrote that your friend's father "left him" a number of firearms. How that was done is important.

Under federal law, firearms that are inherited as specific bequests do NOT have to be transferred through an FFL. The executor can transfer them directly to the heir. (State law may impose restrictions on this, however).

If the father died intestate (without a will), or if the firearms were not bequeathed to your friend by name, that's a different ball game and an attorney should be consulted.

As to the M1911A1, our military phased them out and replaced them with 9mm Berettas more than 30 years ago. There are tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of them in private hands today with the "United States Property" rollmark intact. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP -- which was established by an act of Congress) is right now in the process of selling off left-over, surplus 1911s. I don't think your friend has anything to worry about.

lamarw · February 24, 2019, 08:19 AM

All the above but only if the pistol is not on file as a stolen gun. Not from the U.S. Government but from another private source. Also as long as the Son is not forbidden by law to own or possess a firearm; example he is a convicted felon.

Chances are the above are not a concern but simply to touch upon remote possibilities.

**Spats McGee** · February 24, 2019, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

You wrote that your friend's father "left him" a number of firearms. How that was done is important.

Under federal law, firearms that are inherited as specific bequests do NOT have to be transferred through an FFL. The executor can transfer them directly to the heir. (State law may impose restrictions on this, however).

If the father died intestate (without a will), or if the firearms were not bequeathed to your friend by name, that's a different ball game and an attorney should be consulted.

As the the M1911A1, our military phased them out and replaced them with 9mm Berettas more than 30 years ago. There are tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of them in private hands today withe the "United States Property" rollmark intact. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP -- which was established by an act of Congress) is right now in the process of selling off left-over, surplus 1911s. I don't think your friend has anything to worry about.

AB nicely summed up what would take me several pages to write.

Harry Callahan · February 24, 2019, 02:46 PM

Good info everybody! Thanks!

PSP · February 24, 2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

You wrote that your friend's father "left him" a number of firearms. How that was done is important.

Under federal law, firearms that are inherited as specific bequests do NOT have to be transferred through an FFL. The executor can transfer them directly to the heir. (State law may impose restrictions on this, however).

If the father died intestate (without a will), or if the firearms were not bequeathed to your friend by name, that's a different ball game and an attorney should be consulted.

I'd be interested in from where you cite your federal law here. I'm not aware of any federal law that controls inheritance. State law yes.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 24, 2019, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSP

I'd be interested in from where you cite your federal law here. I'm not aware of any federal law that controls inheritance. State law yes.

I didn't start here, but here's a summary. And it suggests that I was incorrect about intestate succession -- that's also exempt from the FFL transfer requirement.

https://johnpierceesq.com/crossing-s...fted-firearms/

Now for the actual federal law: 18 U.S.Code § 922 (a)(3):

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18 USC 922

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer,licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;
(B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and
(C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States;
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

**Aguila Blanca** · February 24, 2019, 03:52 PM

Please note the distinction raised in the summary article I cited. If Grandad died and left his gun(s) to his grandson Bill by bequest, then the gun(s) is/are a bequest and Bill can receive them without going through an FFL.

However, if Grandad died and left everything to Grandma by bequest, and then Grandma tells Bill she has no use for the guns so they're his if he wants them ... then Bill will NOT be "inheriting" the firearm(s), he will be receiving them as a gift from another living person. All federal and state laws pertaining to transfers will apply, no different than if you sell a gun to a stranger through Gunbroker. Grandma is the heir, not Bill.

Also note that the federal law I cited is (:duh) a federal law, by virtue of the Interstate Commerce clause. It applies only if the heir resides in a different state from the state of residence of the deceased. If both parties are residents of the same state, federal law does not apply and everything falls under state law only.

lee n. field · February 24, 2019, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Callahan

My son has a friend who's father recently passed and left him a number of firearms. Most pretty common but one seems special. It is a Colt 1911 which seems to be from 1943 and is in excellent shape. I have a couple questions however. The Colt says "Property of US Government". Does this mean it could be confiscated if ever serviced by someone? Also, these items reside in the People's Republik of Illinois. Since they are inherited are they still subject to a mandatory FFL transfer? TIA.

There is no mandatory FFL transfer in Illinois, unless it's coming in from a different state.

stinkeypete · February 24, 2019, 06:41 PM

"To legally possess firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police to any qualified applicant. "

Whoever holds the firearm should have a FOID or get one ASAP.

While the information above about federal law and inheritance is most likely correct, it's a good reminder for all of us to get our estate planning in order...

Other than complying with all local and federal laws about owning a firearm, as a practical matter, elders give the younger generation firearms all the time.

My dad gave my daughter her .22 when she turned 8 years old. Technically, that's probably illegal. Practically, there are a lot bigger problems in the world the DA has on his plate. I'm not worried about it. He gave me my 20 gauge. His dad gave him the family gun cabinet full. My grandma's uncle gave that gun cabinet full of hunting rifles and shotguns to my granddad when they got married in the 40's.

Not the biggest crimes in the western world. And.. it's just a story... who can say if I am actually telling the truth or if we found our guns in the ditch?

Drm50 · February 24, 2019, 11:53 PM

As with all govt stuff they are all a can of worms that should be avoided unless necessary.
If guns are not on inventory for probate and old enough they are before 1968 gun control act chances are they don't "exist".

**Aguila Blanca** · February 25, 2019, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drm50

As with all govt stuff they are all a can of worms that should be avoided unless necessary.
If guns are not on inventory for probate and old enough they are before 1968 gun control act chances are they don't "exist".

This might be an appropriate time to review the rules of this forum:

Quote:

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February 24, 2019, 05:39 AM	#1
Harry Callahan Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 832	Inheritance My son has a friend who's father recently passed and left him a number of firearms. Most pretty common but one seems special. It is a Colt 1911 which seems to be from 1943 and is in excellent shape. I have a couple questions however. The Colt says "Property of US Government". Does this mean it could be confiscated if ever serviced by someone? Also, these items reside in the People's Republik of Illinois. Since they are inherited are they still subject to a mandatory FFL transfer? TIA. __________________ "Ah ah. I know what you're thinkin'. Did he fire 6 shots or only 5? To tell you the truth in all this excitement I've kind of lost track myself. But with this being a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off... you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? WELL DO YA, PUNK?!!!"- Harry Callahan(Dirty Harry)

February 24, 2019, 06:18 AM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	You wrote that your friend's father "left him" a number of firearms. How that was done is important. Under federal law, firearms that are inherited as specific bequests do NOT have to be transferred through an FFL. The executor can transfer them directly to the heir. (State law may impose restrictions on this, however). If the father died intestate (without a will), or if the firearms were not bequeathed to your friend by name, that's a different ball game and an attorney should be consulted. As to the M1911A1, our military phased them out and replaced them with 9mm Berettas more than 30 years ago. There are tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of them in private hands today with the "United States Property" rollmark intact. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP -- which was established by an act of Congress) is right now in the process of selling off left-over, surplus 1911s. I don't think your friend has anything to worry about. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 24, 2019 at 01:59 PM. Reason: typos

February 24, 2019, 02:46 PM	#6
Harry Callahan Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 832	Good info everybody! Thanks! __________________ "Ah ah. I know what you're thinkin'. Did he fire 6 shots or only 5? To tell you the truth in all this excitement I've kind of lost track myself. But with this being a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off... you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? WELL DO YA, PUNK?!!!"- Harry Callahan(Dirty Harry)

February 24, 2019, 03:52 PM	#9
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	Please note the distinction raised in the summary article I cited. If Grandad died and left his gun(s) to his grandson Bill by bequest, then the gun(s) is/are a bequest and Bill can receive them without going through an FFL. However, if Grandad died and left everything to Grandma by bequest, and then Grandma tells Bill she has no use for the guns so they're his if he wants them ... then Bill will NOT be "inheriting" the firearm(s), he will be receiving them as a gift from another living person. All federal and state laws pertaining to transfers will apply, no different than if you sell a gun to a stranger through Gunbroker. Grandma is the heir, not Bill. Also note that the federal law I cited is (:duh) a federal law, by virtue of the Interstate Commerce clause. It applies only if the heir resides in a different state from the state of residence of the deceased. If both parties are residents of the same state, federal law does not apply and everything falls under state law only. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 24, 2019 at 06:18 PM.

February 24, 2019, 05:54 AM	#2
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Keep in mind that it was only US government property while they still owned it. The govt sells surplus products every day, and hundreds of thousands of used or surplus guns were sold, as well as millions of rounds of ammunition. Since they engraved it into the steel, rather than putting a luggage tag on it, it will forever say that. It doesn't mean that it is still and will forever be property of the government. Unless illinois doesn't allow a gun to change hands as a gift, there's nothing that I can think of that could complicate it. Personal property that is given as an inheritance isn't generally considered as part of an estate to be taxed or regulated in other ways. If the gun had been registered in some way, maybe there would be a need to change the registration. The thing to remember, though, is that even when a background check is run prior to a purchase, the information of whether or not the purchase took place and whether you do in fact own the gun that was inquired about isn't available.

February 24, 2019, 08:19 AM	#4
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	All the above but only if the pistol is not on file as a stolen gun. Not from the U.S. Government but from another private source. Also as long as the Son is not forbidden by law to own or possess a firearm; example he is a convicted felon. Chances are the above are not a concern but simply to touch upon remote possibilities.

February 24, 2019, 06:41 PM	#11
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	"To legally possess firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police to any qualified applicant. " Whoever holds the firearm should have a FOID or get one ASAP. While the information above about federal law and inheritance is most likely correct, it's a good reminder for all of us to get our estate planning in order... Other than complying with all local and federal laws about owning a firearm, as a practical matter, elders give the younger generation firearms all the time. My dad gave my daughter her .22 when she turned 8 years old. Technically, that's probably illegal. Practically, there are a lot bigger problems in the world the DA has on his plate. I'm not worried about it. He gave me my 20 gauge. His dad gave him the family gun cabinet full. My grandma's uncle gave that gun cabinet full of hunting rifles and shotguns to my granddad when they got married in the 40's. Not the biggest crimes in the western world. And.. it's just a story... who can say if I am actually telling the truth or if we found our guns in the ditch?

February 24, 2019, 11:53 PM	#12
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	As with all govt stuff they are all a can of worms that should be avoided unless necessary. If guns are not on inventory for probate and old enough they are before 1968 gun control act chances are they don't "exist".