|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
February 15, 2014, 08:33 PM | #101 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 6, 2013
Posts: 640
|
interesting discussion. I have been in a crowd where a cop had is pistol in sul... then the screaming and running started....
__________________
No second place finishes in a gun fight. |
February 16, 2014, 11:48 AM | #102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 21, 2013
Posts: 101
|
I watched the Gomez video. I don't agree with much that he is saying. The muzzle up near the face is in my opinion, not very bright. His forearms partially block his vision below and ahead of him. It would seem to be a good way to get the pistol to whack him in the face from either bumping into someone or something.
I would say go with what is comfortable and engage the brain before engaging the trigger. |
February 16, 2014, 12:35 PM | #103 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 3,513
|
Quote:
As far as SUL, I can think of far more disadvantages than advantages for that position, all which have been pointed out already in this thread. I use the compressed position. |
|
February 16, 2014, 12:46 PM | #104 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 10,223
|
Im thinking there are many here, who think their "kung fu" is the best, and are to proud to embrace the Bruce Lee philosophy on life.
|
February 16, 2014, 11:54 PM | #105 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 864
|
This conversation is getting ridiculous... in fact it is not a conversation any more, it is people talking past one another, and trying to score points.
Sul is what it is... Pros use it to prevent muzzling a good guy when a squad or team need to be tightly bunched. It is senseless to argue that it has no purpose, since pros are obviously using in some situations, and they would drop it like a bad habit if they thought it no longer useful. I cant see ever using it in a self defense situation, I think a low ready or retention position will serve me well. But having practiced with it for a bit, I can see why some people find it useful. Just because Sul might be useful in some situations, does not mean it is better than all other positions... Just because another position is better suited to a particular circumstance than Sul is, does not mean that Sul has no value. My choice of A does not invalidate your choice of B. |
February 17, 2014, 12:50 AM | #106 | |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
Just because the screwdriver won't do the things you'll want to use a wrench for is no reason to toss the screwdriver out of your toolbox.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
|
February 17, 2014, 10:13 PM | #107 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,944
|
I thought sul was the dumbest thing I ever saw until I tried it. Yeah, I suppose if you do it incorrectly, you can point a gun at your toes. And if you do low ready incorrectly, you can point it your toes.
But to say there is a better ready position than sul... it's like saying a Dodge Caravan is a better car than a Neon. |
February 19, 2014, 05:42 PM | #108 | |
Junior member
Join Date: September 6, 2013
Location: Kitsap County, Washington
Posts: 316
|
Quote:
Or your training partner move about in close quarters with you following and then have your training partner suddenly stop without warning. In both cases your arms will already be in motion with the gun coming into your face before you can react. |
|
February 19, 2014, 06:22 PM | #109 |
Junior member
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,119
|
If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Learn to use different tools for different situations. IF you follow the basic gun safety rules, such as not pointing your gun at people unless you intend to shoot them, then the 'stance' will take care of itself. Maintain positive gun retention/control. Keep the gun in close to you until you need to fire. |
February 19, 2014, 10:46 PM | #110 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
I think a fairly reasonable way to move through a crowd is allow the crowd to move from me, not me though the crowd. The whole high chest broken wrist position is just too dramatic for me to accept. Can it benefit someone who decides to adopt it? .. sure. Its just not something I accept as an advance of anything I am currently doing. Just a preference thing.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... |
February 19, 2014, 10:57 PM | #111 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
|
I've been perusing this thread, and it's got me wondering. People have addressed the origin of Sul for close proximity issues, but what about angle of incidence considerations for a potential ND and subsequent ricochets? Being in a city, most of the ground surfaces are concrete/asphalt. Should the low angle of incidence provided by Sul compared to other ready positions be a consideration? Thoughts?
|
February 20, 2014, 03:41 AM | #112 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 12, 2013
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 135
|
High ready has its uses when you're about to round a corner, but you have to be careful about using it as it puts your gun where it's easier to grab. That should really be its only use.
I honestly dislike low ready. It's awkward, rigid, and slow. The neutral ready position allows for much more fluid and adaptable movements. Low ready limits your ability to track laterally or respond to an unexpected conditions. If I were to choose a best overall position, it would be neutral ready. It allows you to quickly go on target and adapt to changing conditions. |
February 20, 2014, 09:14 AM | #113 | |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
|
February 20, 2014, 12:13 PM | #114 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,047
|
Quote:
It's a simple matter of loweriing it an inch or two so it doesn't "block your vision". Reality is even at eye level, it barely blocks anything at all, but anyone with a shred of common sense would keep the muzzle below eye level. One could also shift it to the opposite side if "blocked vision" is a concern, although the truth is, it's not a problem at all It's just a manufactured excuse that doesn't hold up to reality If you don't believe it, hold something up close to your face and you will notice you can still see around it, as long as it's not the same width as the distance between your eyes. Intelligent people would hold it lower though
__________________
One shot, one kill |
|
February 20, 2014, 12:33 PM | #115 | ||
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
||
February 20, 2014, 03:38 PM | #116 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,047
|
Quote:
Anyone who has two eyes can SEE your argument is simply not true. You keep pretending it blocks your vision, when the fact is, it does not. Even if held directly in front of your face, you can see AROUND it as long as you don't focus on it Don't believe it? Hold three fingers directly in front of your nose and look around. You won't be blocking anything at all It's a lame argument, and repetition won't make it any better
__________________
One shot, one kill |
|
February 20, 2014, 09:49 PM | #117 | ||||
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
Quote:
You're welcome to try that while holding three fingers in front of your nose. I don't think I will.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
||||
February 21, 2014, 01:49 AM | #118 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,047
|
Quote:
Quote:
You like to pretend you know a lot, but you're the one who can't seem to figure out how it's possible to hold a firearm safely pointed up, without either blocking your vision or pointing it at yourself You can't logically dispute anything I've stated, so as always, you try to make it about me instead of just discussing the topic. You instead resort to some psychobabble personal insult rather than admit I'm right about what I said in that it doesn't really block your vision if you have enough sense to figure it out
__________________
One shot, one kill |
||
February 21, 2014, 01:59 AM | #119 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
The Dunning-Kruger effect isn't psychobabble, it's a documented effect that shows up constantly in everyday life. And especially in the gun world.
Almost nobody recommends any "high-ready" positions anymore. They're not very practical. We've figured out much better ways to carry guns in the last several decades. Snyper, please stop. I've seen your posts in other threads and you're a smart, knowledgable guy. But your arguments here are making you look the opposite.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." |
February 21, 2014, 01:59 AM | #120 | ||
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
You're free to persist in your opinions, just as I am free to dismiss them as specious.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
||
February 21, 2014, 09:23 AM | #121 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,137
|
Are y'all still arguing about this? Amazing.
|
February 21, 2014, 11:15 AM | #122 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,047
|
Quote:
You're a hoot. You accuse me of trying to act "superior" when you can't go two posts without referriing to your "experience" and "training", and implying anyone who can't match it is not worth listening to No amount of training will change reality You expect me to believe you rather than what I can see for myself.
__________________
One shot, one kill |
|
February 21, 2014, 11:22 AM | #123 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,047
|
Quote:
__________________
One shot, one kill |
|
February 21, 2014, 11:53 AM | #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
We have better things to do than bicker.
I suggest that folks pay attention to folks with experience and make their own decisions. Closed.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
|
|