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Old August 12, 2010, 03:38 PM   #1
UniversalFrost
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Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,299
big negative for AuctionArms

I recently had a deal go south with a seller on Auction Arms.

I have been a reliable (100% feedback both selling and buying) customer of Auction Arms since circa 2007.

Well, I left negative feedback for the seller and he rebutted it and then complained to Auction Arms (he has multiple negative feedbacks this year alone).

I received an email from Bob Lancaster (EVP of AA) this morning stating that the seller had complained to them and Bob had removed my negative feedback. Well, the email the seller had sent to AA was no where near the truth and I attempted to log onto my account with AA to reply to Bob and it seems my account has now been disabled.

So, I guess it is buyer beware (or user beware) with Auction Arms nowadays. They (AA) didn't even give me a chance to defend myself and instead had a knee jerk reaction of disabling my account (which still had 100% positive feedback) and removing my negative feedback from a deadbeat seller's account.

At this point I have replied to AA that I will be taking my business to gunbroker and gunsamerica for buying (I have already transitioned to them about a year ago for selling).

Between the GPAL issue (AA was a big supporter) and now this action against a member in good standing (me) without even asking for my side of the story, I am fed up with Auction Arms.
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Old August 18, 2010, 08:14 PM   #2
bwdilli
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Good luck! I had the exact same problem with GunBorker.

Received an email last night that AuctionArms would be moving to the same style auction as GunBorker. They keep the auction going as long as there are bids within the last 10 minutes. Looks like they're becoming more alike all the time.
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Old August 18, 2010, 09:58 PM   #3
UniversalFrost
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they ( AA) are just trying to stay alive.

I did get an email from them (AA) that basically said they didn't care for my input and they were siding with the other guy because he had more of a selling record with them . My reply was fine, I have no problem taking my buying and selling elsewhere.
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Old August 19, 2010, 02:06 PM   #4
AA-Bob
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Hmmm, well let's look at this a bit closer...

AuctionArms routinely removes negative feedback from seller's accounts when a non-paying bidder posts a negative feedback, usually in retaliation for a negative they received as a non-payer.

We investigate these complaints and ask the non-paying buyer to comment on the seller's complaint if the Seller's statements are incorrect. At this time we also ask the non-paying buyer to not repost a negative feedback.

My guess is you did not rebut the seller's complaint and reposted the negative after being asked not to do so. I which case we administratively disable your account for failure to follow AuctionArms directions.

If any of the above did not occur, please email the particulars to me for review.
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Old August 19, 2010, 04:26 PM   #5
doctruptwn
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AA- Bob, I'd start on that Review. I've done Business with UniversalFrost and would have to say he's an absolutely stand up guy. My purchases from him have always been more than I expected.
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Old August 19, 2010, 08:37 PM   #6
Mal H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AA-Bob
My guess is ...
I have to wonder why you are guessing about any of your suppositions when you should have ready access to everything that did or didn't transpire. Why do you feel it necessary to communicate with a dissatisfied member of your site at a different venue? Wouldn't your questions have been more appropriate in a private dialog carried out before you disabled his account?
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Old August 20, 2010, 11:44 AM   #7
Huntergirl
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Join Date: January 8, 2005
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I had a similar experience with Auctionarms, where they erased a negative feedback from me about a seller, who I couldn't reach. He just happened to be on vacation, and he didn't bother to say this in the auction, or on his standard phone message line. Rules of AA are that buyer contact seller and verify his address by phone. I got no replies from seller by email or phone for over a week, so I did not send funds. I gave him negative feedback, as did he did to me. My feedback for him was erased, but his stayed. Now reading AAbob's comments, he can be sure, I will never do business with Auctionarms again, ever. Auction Arms wouldn't bother to listen to what I had to say. No AAbob, you do not investigate, without bias.

Last edited by Huntergirl; August 20, 2010 at 11:54 AM.
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Old August 20, 2010, 11:46 AM   #8
Doyle
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I'm going to agree with the general sentiment here. AA apparantly didn't even bother to get the full story before shutting down Frost's account. Shutting down the account of someone with only positive feedback while leaving open the one with a history of negative feedback looks like a very bad ( and biased) decision.
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Old September 7, 2010, 12:23 PM   #9
AA-Bob
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Join Date: March 19, 2010
Location: California
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AuctionArms rebuttal

OK, since we want to take this public...and you invited the rebuttal here we go.

I received the following from the poster after asking that he not repost negative feedback and provide me with specifics if anything the seller was saying was untrue.

Other than broad disclaimers and claims of seller being "selective in his information and alleging he was "hostile and misleading" no specifics were provided in my request that he provide his side of the story.

It is an outright lie that he was not given an opportunity to provide his story.

Read the below email thread (personal information removed to protect user privacy)....you make the call.
_____________________________________________________


From: Joseph
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:30 PM
To: Robert Lancaster
Subject: RE: 9823255/robyb52/richard922

Hi Bob.

I went ahead and reposted my negative feedback for the seller.

The seller was very selective in his information to you and I see that your company didn't even give me a chance to send you my side of the story.

As you will not that I have not recently sold any items on your site, but have continued to buy off of your site (with a 100% feedback rating I might add).

This seller was hostile and misleading in his information that he provided to you.

I have decided that it is for the better that you have decided to disable my account. This has proven to me that the buyer beware motto holds true for buyers that browse your site.

I have decided to take my purchasing to gunbroker and gunsamerica (where I have been selling my items the past year or so).

Have a good day and I am sorry that your company has made me choose this route, also be aware that I will be filing a complaint with the BBB and posting my dealings with auction arms on several gun related forums that I am either a moderator or senior member of.

You may post a rebuttal if you wish.

Very Respectfully,

Joseph Roby

-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: RICHARD
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:21 AM
To: Robert Lancaster
Subject: RE: 9823255/robyb52/richard922


BOB, this guy left a negitive feedback again. i dont know what his problem is but he didnt listen to you will you please correct it again
thank you
richard

From: [email protected]
To:
Subject: RE: 9823255/robyb52/richard922
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:06:32 -0700


Hi Richard. Bob here from AuctionArms. Thanks for your note and the opportunity to help!

I have removed the negative feedback

Joseph, do not repost this feedback unless you can show a material error in Richard’s report below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RICHARD
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:54 PM
To: Dispute
Subject: 9823255/robyb52/richard922


I am writing to you sending a letter i received from a person who won the auction at the bottom of the page.
the agreement thru the auction was he would pay me the final price if i would meet him in tucson to do a face to face transaction.
the agreement was to meet at the sportsmans wearhouse in tucson, az. at 9:00 am on sunday the 1st of august. i tried to make it on saturday the 31st of july but he said he had a birthday party to go to and i have those email's if you need to see them...
i left my house around 7am to meet him in tucson due to the fact it's 50 miles and most of the traffic is thru town and i wanted to eat
breakfast with the wife.. at 8:26 am joe called my phone and told me he couldn't make it. he stated he had sent me an email earlier
that morning then after i hadn't retunded his email he called me. by that time i was 1 mile from the sportsmans wearhouse.
i told him i was almost there he then asked me why i left so early and i told him why. during our conversation i told him it cost me 20.00 and 2.5 hrs of my time. so i told him when i got home i would send him a new invoice showing 25.00 shipping cost because i wasnt doing this again. and he needed to send an FFL with payment. then on the 6th of aug which was 5 days later i received this email below.. when i read it it appeared to me he was not going to pay for the gun and was backing out of the transaction.. after the mail ran that day and payment was not there i relisted the gun and left him negitive feedback... now it's been 16 days since the auction and he left me negitive feedback.. i do not feel i should have this on my feedback and i am asking you to please remove it..
thank you
Richard922
if you have any questions please ask

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: joseph
To: RICHARD
Subject: RE: Invoice: 59710 from richard922
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:04:10 -0700

I have an FFL as well a C&R FFL which is for persons to buy C&R qualifying guns (this was not a qualifying gun, so I would have only provided it as a further means of verifying me and not to construe an 01 FFL) and I was willing to provide you with a copy of my AZ DL and my AZ CCW.

Right now I am half tempted to cancel the money order because I am wondering why you are pushing so hard to get the money as fast as possible. Also, I have a longer drive to Tucson than you and leaving at 0830 in the morning would have put me in Tucson before 1000.

Was only asking about a FTF transaction on Sunday because wife wanted to go shopping and then also due to BATF regs intra-state person to person transfer is fine and legal (see U.S.C 18 on the BATF website for intra-state transfers). That and I wanted to keep the price of the gun down (my FFL charges $25 to $35 for transfers depending on whether usps or ups/fedex). This is a cheap gun and will be a knock around gun and loaner for friends when we go hunting (I have some 300 win mag loads with 125gr bullets that are used for coyotes), hence the reason for wanting to do a person to person sale and avoid the extra cost.

I am really going to think hard on this one if I want to go through with it and not cancel the money order based upon your responses.

If you don’t believe me and my explanation, then you have major trust issues mister. Also check my feedback on AA and gunbroker (100% as a buyer and seller).

I will get back to you later today, I really have to think on this.

JOE

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RICHARD
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:38 AM
To: joseph
Subject: RE: Invoice: 59710 from richard922

first off it's 50 miles for me you emailed me at 8:26 am the day you were suppose to meet me. mostly city traffic so it takes an hour to get there. i dont like to be late so of course i would leave earlier. you made it my problem when you were inconsiderate and didn't notify me until almost 8:30.. remember your buying from me and i went out of my way to make it easier for you.. then when you couldn't make it you were just trying to do anything you could to get this gun without going thru an FFL dealer.. so put the shoe on the other foot what would you think was going on. it raises my suspicion weather you can buy one or not.. think about it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: joseph
To: RICHARD
Subject: RE: Invoice: 59710 from richard922
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 06:59:44 -0700

My FFL is closed Monday and Tuesday’s (sportsman center on FT. huchuca). I went to them on Wednesday and they sent out their FFL then. I also mailed out the usps money order on Wednesday evening.

What is your problem.

First not my fault if you left early on Saturday. I attempted to contact you way ahead of time that I would have to go to the ER with my pregnant wife, then you yell at me for it. Thanks for even being considerate. And now this????

You really need to take a chill pill.

When you get the ffl and money order let me know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:59 AM
To: joseph
Cc: Richard
Subject: Invoice: 59710 from richard922



Greetings robyb52,
The following is an invoice (59710) sent by richard922 for your purchases through Auction Arms.

You can view these auctions by clicking on the item number:

Qty
Item #
Title
Price
SubTotal

1
9823255
Mossberg-North Haven Mossberg Mod. 1500 300 Win. Mag.
$285.00
$285.00




SubTotal:
$285.00

Shipping:
$25.00

Insurance:
$0.00

0.00 Sales Tax:
$0.00

Seller Charges/Discounts:
$0.00


Invoice Total: $310.00
Seller's Instructions:
=================================================
IT HAS BEEN 5 DAYS SINCE I WROTE THIS. AS I CAN SEE I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU AND I TAKE IT YOUR NOT GOING TO PAY I WILL BE LEAVING NEGITIVE FEEDBACK FOR NON PAYMENT. I TRIED TO WORK YOU AND YOU FAILED TO MEET ME AS AGREED UPON. I LEFT MY HOUSE AT 7:15 TO MEET YOU I GOT A CALL AT 8:30 SAYING YOU WWERE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT.. THAT WAS 100 MILE ROUND TRIP THAT WAS A COST TO ME OF 18.00 IN GAS... I WANT YOU TO SEND ME AN FFL AND SHIPPING WILL BE AS WE AGREED ON WHEN YOU CALLED.. I WILL BE OUT THE GAS AND TIME I PUT INTO YOUR TERMS.. PLEASE HAVE FFL AND PAYMENT TO ME IN 5 DAYS THANK YOU..
=================================================
Seller's Contact Information:
Nickname: richard922
Email: Richard
Phone Number: (520)668-xxxx
richard

SAN MANUEL, AZ 85631
United States
Please contact this seller to confirm your purchases and payment information.
Thanks for using Auction Arms!
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Old September 7, 2010, 12:47 PM   #10
UniversalFrost
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Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,299
BoB,

again you only posted his edited accounts (slanderous and out and out false for the most part) and never even replied to my email asking for my chance to post my side of the story.

I have given up on your site and will be using your competitors.

If you want to see the complete and honest emails from me and the seller than I am more than willing to provide them. You will then see his emails are heavily edited on his side and he even changed my portions of the email traffic.

ball is in your court bob, but I will not be returning to your site and I have several other folks locally and on this and other boards that have decided to move from your site (between this issue and the gunpal issue).

have a great day.
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Old September 7, 2010, 03:15 PM   #11
Mal H
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Each side has now had their say and rebuttal. Any additional communications will have to be in private. Closed.
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