Ohio Leo abuse of CCW carrier. - Page 4

Alaska444 · July 21, 2011, 09:28 PM

The story made Fox News today.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/21...est=latestnews

raisitup · July 21, 2011, 09:36 PM

The ex-cabbie deserves to get paid if for nothing else than handling the abuse like a boss. Way to keep cool.

Ryan

pnac · July 21, 2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

I believe that the incident sparked such fear in the officer that he over reacted.
Is it me, or have the police turned up the heat the last few years? They used to have greater concern for the public at large than they do of late. Performing the PIT maneuver on people for minor offenses is over the top in general IMO

.

Naw! I've been seeing this kind of behavior for 50 years, it hasn't changed much. BTW, this is grounds for a "1983 lawsuit" (42 USC 1983). The cop AND his bosses are liable.

bullethole1 · July 21, 2011, 11:04 PM

That is so wrong. I heard from a lawyer that the cops are the criminals,I believe that 110%

Jim March · July 21, 2011, 11:50 PM

The department yanked their whole Facebook page. One can only imagine the comments.

hogdogs · July 21, 2011, 11:55 PM

Jim, The dept. said they are shutting it down at 3pm and reopening in the AM due to lack of man power to monitor the comments or something... check it in the AM... I know I will be! I have several comments there already!

Brent

Romeo 33 Delta · July 22, 2011, 12:04 AM

What shocks me is that I cannot believe that in today's violent climate that you would be so casual in approaching the vehicle.

You have them run the plates and all that but what does it tell you, really?
It tells you to whom the vehicle is registered and possibly some information about the owner. Fine, but what if the actual owner is asleep in his bed and this vehicle has been recently stolen, but not reported a such, and what if the occupants have just knocked over a 7-11 and killed the night manager and three customers?

And you just waltz up to the car without having that cross your mind? Must be, because both these patrolmen acted worse than rookies (and I'm not even a cop).

I won't even comment on the bad behavior because I'll just go off on a rant and get this thread closed or something.

These cops are more than lucky that the driver was a licensed CC holder and that the other two weren't violent criminals ... of course I think when the dust settles, the cops won't think they were so lucky.

Davey · July 22, 2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

I called the Canton PD and asked what routes were best to take to avoid Canton while traveling through Ohio. The girl didn't laugh.

Probably because it wasn't funny.

maestro pistolero · July 22, 2011, 01:57 AM

My brother is a veteran PD Lieutenant in Southern CA.and he watched the video and concluded that Officer Harless was just mad at himself for shoddy safety habits, and taking it out on the subject. I can't use the word he used to describe this officer. He couldn't believe they searched the car with the guy still at the wheel without checking him out.

My brother thought the subject could have been a little more assertive in notifying, but with the officers ignoring him for a full 5 minutes, there wasn't much chance. His opinion was that the subject probably knew he was transporting a prostitute and a pimp, but that was in no way was cause for the behavior of the officer.

FWIW.

gun addict · July 22, 2011, 04:21 AM

ugghh, i could only imagine this guy with his "NCO syndrome" and how much his junior Marine hated him while he was in the Corps.

i guess talking this way toward average civilians while on camera dosnt really fly does it?

Single Six · July 22, 2011, 04:53 AM

Bullethole1: Unless you've actually spent time with every single police officer in this country and personally found all of them to be criminals...how can you justify painting all LEOs with the same brush?

Please be so kind as to read my previous posting on this thread. Thanks.

American Eagle · July 22, 2011, 06:28 AM

Bullethole1: As a lawyer, I agree 100%...all cops are criminals, and my clients are always 100% innocent

What else do you expect a lawyer to say?

Jim March · July 22, 2011, 07:03 AM

Is anybody here ready to claim that his co-workers didn't know this guy was a time bomb?

Seriously? Half that department knew, at LEAST. You don't start out at that point. He's done this before.

If I'm right, and y'all know I am, then half that force needs to be tossed out of their jobs.

WeedWacker · July 22, 2011, 07:20 AM

Jim, who's to say that he WASN'T reported by others in the department? The only ones who can take administrative action are those higher up the chain and the chain can be broken by inter-political rationale and corruption. (He's the son/nephew/cousin of some department hero/chief/director) There first would need to be a record and if complaints are pigeonholed there is no telling how many there were in actuality. Innocence until proven and all that which were so handily ignored in this incident. His immediate superiors would definitely fall under applicants for a future in the unemployment lines.

9-ball · July 22, 2011, 07:32 AM

I hope this maroon gets fired

zukiphile · July 22, 2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullethole1

I heard from a lawyer that the cops are the criminals,I believe that 110%

Very unfair. Different regions and departments have different cultures.

Jim March · July 22, 2011, 08:48 AM

There has to be a solution for this issue of wack-job cops, and it's going to have to come from within the "police structure" of some sort.

There was a recent case in Las Vegas where a police union official embezzled $22k from the union and the union wouldn't press charges because they didn't want the PR hit. Are you kidding me? We should not be surprised that LVPD is among the most violent and lawless in the US, with two recent shootings (one fatal) of legal CCW holders in cases where witnesses say the permitholder was no threat. They've also been caught on video assaulting people who point cameras at them, twice in the last 8 months or so that I know of. One case was a physical assault but another was if anything worse, with a cop's hand on his gun in a threatening manner - clear-cut assault with a deadly weapon if any of us did the same.

These issues of police violence and police not wanting to police their own go hand-in-hand as the LVPD shows in graphic fashion.

**Spats McGee** · July 22, 2011, 09:04 AM

I finally got to watch this video today. Kudos to the CCW holder for keeping his cool. The officer's behavior is thoroughly reprehensible. I'm not sure if the CCW holder can get past qualified immunity in a 1983 suit, but at the very least, that officer needs to ride the pine until he gets his temper under control.

zukiphile · July 22, 2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim march

One case was a physical assault but another was if anything worse, with a cop's hand on his gun in a threatening manner - clear-cut assault with a deadly weapon if any of us did the same.

I had a Cleveland PO come unwound during a traffic stop a couple of years ago. He stood outside my car a couple of feet behind the driver's seat so that in order to see him I had to turn around and look backward.

As he stood screaming at me, I watched his hand come to and from his sidearm repeatedly. It was unnerving, but I don't think he meant to imply that he was on the verge of shooting me. My guess would be that these guys rest their hands all over their arms at part of weapon retention training.

maestro pistolero · July 22, 2011, 09:35 AM

Sometimes a department is just looking for a tangible enough excuse to put a boot print on a problematic derriere. If that's true here, then Officer Harless obliged them nicely.

artsmom · July 22, 2011, 10:13 AM

I called the Canton Police Department and told the shift supervisor I sat down with my wife and three sons and watched the video of his coworker. I then asked him to explain what we saw...

...he said he had no explanation.

There were 311 hits on that video yesterday morning, 162,004 this morning.

I wonder how this video escaped into the public?

It makes me wonder if all dash cam videos should be captured and held by some controlling authority outside of the police departments.

hogdogs · July 22, 2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

I wonder how this video escaped into the public?

The defense attorney for the driver got it for part of lawsuit and criminal defense preparations... He in turn handed a copy over to that ohio gun rights group...

Brent

orangello · July 22, 2011, 10:44 AM

Not here to rant against all LEO's, but i do have a question.

The officer appeared to make a threat to the permit-holder's life with the whole "cave in your skull" and something about shooting him ten times with a Glock (didn't hear "rubber bullets" mentioned). How is this not a criminal offense? I thought making a believable threat against somebody's life (officer was armed & "upset" & within easy range) was a crime like assault or a Rodney King-esque "assault under the color of authority"?

I don't mean a civil lawsuit or a public firing with a really nasty reference; i mean does this qualify for criminal penalties for criminal activity?

Tuzo · July 22, 2011, 10:44 AM

Several police officers of different jurisdictions frequent my gym. To a man and one woman, they are individuals who are dedicated to uphold the law and treat the public fairly.

However, one sheriff's deputy egregeously stands out. He is physically brutish and brags about physically intimidating people and looking forward to any physical altercation. In other words, he is a sanctioned bully. His behavior is atypical yet it stands out in the minds of many people as typical law enforcement behavior.

Police departments must have professionalism not only in duty performance but also in interaction with the public. Screening for negative personality traits is easily accomplished by several methods and must be used rigorously in gauging and predicting an officer's behavior.

aarondhgraham · July 22, 2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

I don't mean a civil lawsuit or a public firing with a really nasty reference; i mean does this qualify for criminal penalties for criminal activity?

Yes, it is a criminal act.

Good luck getting any other LEO to arrest another LEO.

It's the old question: Who watches the watchers.
Internal affairs is supposed to do this,,,
Again I say, good luck.

Not all cops are like this one,,,
But they are all members of the same organization.

Some people say that a police force is no different than any other street gang,,,
Except for the fact that they are sanctioned by civil authority.

Cops display all of the same behaviors that gang members do,,,
Loyalty to the group outweighs all other factors.

Too many LEO's in my family for me to think otherwise.

Aarond

July 21, 2011, 11:50 PM	#80
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	The department yanked their whole Facebook page. One can only imagine the comments. __________________ Jim March

July 22, 2011, 04:53 AM	#86
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	Bullethole1: Unless you've actually spent time with every single police officer in this country and personally found all of them to be criminals...how can you justify painting all LEOs with the same brush? Please be so kind as to read my previous posting on this thread. Thanks. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

July 22, 2011, 06:28 AM	#87
American Eagle Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 265	Bullethole1: As a lawyer, I agree 100%...all cops are criminals, and my clients are always 100% innocent What else do you expect a lawyer to say? __________________ I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ----THOMAS JEFFERSON

July 22, 2011, 07:03 AM	#88
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Is anybody here ready to claim that his co-workers didn't know this guy was a time bomb? Seriously? Half that department knew, at LEAST. You don't start out at that point. He's done this before. If I'm right, and y'all know I am, then half that force needs to be tossed out of their jobs. __________________ Jim March

July 22, 2011, 07:20 AM	#89
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	Jim, who's to say that he WASN'T reported by others in the department? The only ones who can take administrative action are those higher up the chain and the chain can be broken by inter-political rationale and corruption. (He's the son/nephew/cousin of some department hero/chief/director) There first would need to be a record and if complaints are pigeonholed there is no telling how many there were in actuality. Innocence until proven and all that which were so handily ignored in this incident. His immediate superiors would definitely fall under applicants for a future in the unemployment lines. __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

July 21, 2011, 09:28 PM	#76
Alaska444 Junior member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Posts: 1,231	The story made Fox News today. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/21...est=latestnews

July 21, 2011, 09:36 PM	#77
raisitup Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 56	The ex-cabbie deserves to get paid if for nothing else than handling the abuse like a boss. Way to keep cool. Ryan

July 21, 2011, 11:04 PM	#79
bullethole1 Junior member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Location: San Antonio , Texas Posts: 253	That is so wrong. I heard from a lawyer that the cops are the criminals,I believe that 110%

July 21, 2011, 11:55 PM	#81
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Jim, The dept. said they are shutting it down at 3pm and reopening in the AM due to lack of man power to monitor the comments or something... check it in the AM... I know I will be! I have several comments there already! Brent

July 22, 2011, 12:04 AM	#82
Romeo 33 Delta Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 315	What shocks me is that I cannot believe that in today's violent climate that you would be so casual in approaching the vehicle. You have them run the plates and all that but what does it tell you, really? It tells you to whom the vehicle is registered and possibly some information about the owner. Fine, but what if the actual owner is asleep in his bed and this vehicle has been recently stolen, but not reported a such, and what if the occupants have just knocked over a 7-11 and killed the night manager and three customers? And you just waltz up to the car without having that cross your mind? Must be, because both these patrolmen acted worse than rookies (and I'm not even a cop). I won't even comment on the bad behavior because I'll just go off on a rant and get this thread closed or something. These cops are more than lucky that the driver was a licensed CC holder and that the other two weren't violent criminals ... of course I think when the dust settles, the cops won't think they were so lucky.

July 22, 2011, 01:57 AM	#84
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	My brother is a veteran PD Lieutenant in Southern CA.and he watched the video and concluded that Officer Harless was just mad at himself for shoddy safety habits, and taking it out on the subject. I can't use the word he used to describe this officer. He couldn't believe they searched the car with the guy still at the wheel without checking him out. My brother thought the subject could have been a little more assertive in notifying, but with the officers ignoring him for a full 5 minutes, there wasn't much chance. His opinion was that the subject probably knew he was transporting a prostitute and a pimp, but that was in no way was cause for the behavior of the officer. FWIW.

July 22, 2011, 04:21 AM	#85
gun addict Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Posts: 13	ugghh, i could only imagine this guy with his "NCO syndrome" and how much his junior Marine hated him while he was in the Corps. i guess talking this way toward average civilians while on camera dosnt really fly does it?

July 22, 2011, 07:32 AM	#90
9-ball Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2011 Location: Belgium Posts: 340	I hope this maroon gets fired __________________ Quality of life is measured by number of rounds fired, quantity of life by number of rounds left to fire.

July 22, 2011, 08:48 AM	#92
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	There has to be a solution for this issue of wack-job cops, and it's going to have to come from within the "police structure" of some sort. There was a recent case in Las Vegas where a police union official embezzled $22k from the union and the union wouldn't press charges because they didn't want the PR hit. Are you kidding me? We should not be surprised that LVPD is among the most violent and lawless in the US, with two recent shootings (one fatal) of legal CCW holders in cases where witnesses say the permitholder was no threat. They've also been caught on video assaulting people who point cameras at them, twice in the last 8 months or so that I know of. One case was a physical assault but another was if anything worse, with a cop's hand on his gun in a threatening manner - clear-cut assault with a deadly weapon if any of us did the same. These issues of police violence and police not wanting to police their own go hand-in-hand as the LVPD shows in graphic fashion. __________________ Jim March

July 22, 2011, 09:04 AM	#93
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I finally got to watch this video today. Kudos to the CCW holder for keeping his cool. The officer's behavior is thoroughly reprehensible. I'm not sure if the CCW holder can get past qualified immunity in a 1983 suit, but at the very least, that officer needs to ride the pine until he gets his temper under control. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

July 22, 2011, 09:35 AM	#95
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	Sometimes a department is just looking for a tangible enough excuse to put a boot print on a problematic derriere. If that's true here, then Officer Harless obliged them nicely.

July 22, 2011, 10:13 AM	#96
artsmom Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 334	I called the Canton Police Department and told the shift supervisor I sat down with my wife and three sons and watched the video of his coworker. I then asked him to explain what we saw... ...he said he had no explanation. There were 311 hits on that video yesterday morning, 162,004 this morning. I wonder how this video escaped into the public? It makes me wonder if all dash cam videos should be captured and held by some controlling authority outside of the police departments. Last edited by artsmom; July 22, 2011 at 10:22 AM.

July 22, 2011, 10:44 AM	#98
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	Not here to rant against all LEO's, but i do have a question. The officer appeared to make a threat to the permit-holder's life with the whole "cave in your skull" and something about shooting him ten times with a Glock (didn't hear "rubber bullets" mentioned). How is this not a criminal offense? I thought making a believable threat against somebody's life (officer was armed & "upset" & within easy range) was a crime like assault or a Rodney King-esque "assault under the color of authority"? I don't mean a civil lawsuit or a public firing with a really nasty reference; i mean does this qualify for criminal penalties for criminal activity?

July 22, 2011, 10:44 AM	#99
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	Several police officers of different jurisdictions frequent my gym. To a man and one woman, they are individuals who are dedicated to uphold the law and treat the public fairly. However, one sheriff's deputy egregeously stands out. He is physically brutish and brags about physically intimidating people and looking forward to any physical altercation. In other words, he is a sanctioned bully. His behavior is atypical yet it stands out in the minds of many people as typical law enforcement behavior. Police departments must have professionalism not only in duty performance but also in interaction with the public. Screening for negative personality traits is easily accomplished by several methods and must be used rigorously in gauging and predicting an officer's behavior.