December 31, 2008, 10:19 PM | #126 | |
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You know, David, I really wonder if you're telling us with a straight face, that after a SD shooting, not being able to reload your pistol is an acceptable tactical philosophy just because it's unlikely you'll need to. With that kind of odds making, one would load their revolver with 3 rds. and figure to have 1.5 rds. more than they need. Last edited by Nnobby45; December 31, 2008 at 10:52 PM. |
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December 31, 2008, 11:03 PM | #127 | ||
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Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; January 1, 2009 at 01:21 PM. |
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January 1, 2009, 12:53 AM | #128 |
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retracted
Last edited by Whirlwind06; January 1, 2009 at 09:32 AM. |
January 1, 2009, 01:37 AM | #129 | ||||
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January 1, 2009, 01:51 AM | #130 |
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I have not had to fire in defense (thank god). Unless you count that ****** off groundhog that one time....
Oh, and that deer I snuck up on. That wasn't too funny. I didn't know deer would run at you like that! I didn't even have a gun on me...just snuck up on her from behind a building and jumped out and yelled "Boo!" Bet she got a good laugh out of that one. Oh, back on subject..... I like to carry 7 reloads. Two in a double mag pouch. One on each calf, one in each back pocket (those ones hurt sometimes), and one taped just under my private parts where no bad guy will ever find it. Grand total of 105 rounds of .45ACP with one in the hole. Without one chambered, though, that's only 104 rounds. Too light for me. Just don't feel comfortable...
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January 1, 2009, 09:48 AM | #131 | |
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Peetzakiller wrote:
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January 1, 2009, 01:19 PM | #132 | ||||
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I am awaiting the data supporting your opinion. The data supporting my opinion was, largely, supplied by Mr. Armstrong a couple of pages ago. No one questioned those numbers at the time. So far, the only reason any one has given for carrying a reload is essentially "I think I might need it." Where is the data to support that assertion? The closest any reload proponent has come to data is using the data provided by Mr. Armstrong to basically say "See, there's a chance, so I carry." Here's some evidence from above (page 6): Quote:
Here's some more (page 4): Quote:
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Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; January 1, 2009 at 01:27 PM. |
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January 1, 2009, 01:30 PM | #133 |
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I carry two spare 8rd mags MOST of the time. Why? To be honest, it's not because I think I'll need them. I probably won't need ANY from the gun itself, much less all 9 and then some.
I carry them because, MOST of the time, it's just as easy to carry them as it is to NOT carry them. Whatever I'm wearing that will conceal a pistol will conceal 2 magazines. They aren't heavy, they aren't in the way of anything, they go on the same belt as my pistol, etc. There isn't anything extra I have to do to carry them, so why NOT? Now, if I had to do anything extra to carry them, then and ONLY then, would I go to the next level and ask if I NEEDED to. Unless that's the case, then I just do. Because, absent anything negative from carrying them, why NOT? |
January 1, 2009, 01:33 PM | #134 | |
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I think we are going in circles. Most DGUs are very low fire intensity situations. One can conceive of being in an intensive situation as in a terrorist or rampage. But they are rare. Despite all the uproar about Virginia Tech - there have been only about 14 college shootings. Non-leo interventions in rampages have usually been low fire situations. 1. Tyler courthouse - civilian screwed up 2. Tacoma mall - civilian screwed up 3. Colorado church - ex-cop but civilian saved the day - BG suicided. 4. UT Austin Tower - then you get lots of civilian rounds but they were long arms. I know lots of professionals who feel ok with the J frame for most situations in real life. As I said before, a gun and a reload is reasonable and doable without discomfort. I do admit that sometimes I will Bat Belt up but that's like dressing-up.
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January 1, 2009, 03:02 PM | #135 |
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Hondo that was a very reasoned and logical post.--------------Knock it off
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January 1, 2009, 03:16 PM | #136 | |
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You, on the other hand, have been citing historical facts and statistical data non-stop...without actually providing any. So let's see them. As they say in the facts business: put up or shut up. |
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January 1, 2009, 03:23 PM | #137 | |
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Easy: Put on pants. Seecamp in pocket holster back pocket, wallet and money in pocket. Go Not so easy: Begin to put on belt. Run through holster loops, adjust. run through mag pouch loops, adjust. Put gun in, adjust. Put mags in, adjust. Put on cover garment, adjust. Go. Modify for carry method of your choice. Me...lifes too short to be adjusting guns, draggin my pants down etc. I'm a grab my pants and go guy. I'll save the firepower for times my hinkymeter picks up penumbras and emanations in the fabric of space/time WildialreadyhavemycoffeewhileyouarestillgettingdressedAlaska TM |
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January 1, 2009, 03:31 PM | #138 |
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What about those of us that dont own a seecamp which slips oh so easily into the back pocket?
Of course its an effort...but it is an extra 4 or 5 seconds worth of extra effort. I still have to holster my weapon and then slip it onto the waistband of the pants that I happen to be wearing that day. So I disagree with the premise that it is far too much effort to carry an extra mag...simply because the effort required to slip my magazine holster with it belt clip onto my waistband is virtually nil. |
January 1, 2009, 03:45 PM | #139 | ||
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January 1, 2009, 04:04 PM | #140 | |
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From WildAlaska:
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When I am in track pants or something, the 642 goes in my pocket. Rigging up a 1911 and spare mags in that case WOULD be extra effort. When I am putting on my jeans, belt, and belt holster, throwing on a mag carrier is not extra effort. Maybe 2 seconds worth...round that down to ZERO. I'm not arguing FOR carrying extra mags. I'm making an argument why you can't argue against carrying it. I could also make an argument why you can't argue FOR carrying. Because it's personal choice. You do what you want. I'll do what I want. These threads get stupid real quick...right about the time it goes from "This is what I do and why...why do you do what you do and why?" to "This is what I do and you should do it to because it's the only way and you're an idiot if you don't." Hondoiprobablygetdressedfasterthanyouanywaywhichmeansicanwearextramagsandstillhavemycoffeebeforeyou11 TM |
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January 1, 2009, 04:07 PM | #141 |
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I hate the fact that so far everyone seems to be ganging up on creature. He has a valid point, the rest of you are attacking him needlessly. I will offer some facts to help support creatures argument. (he doesn't need my help, nor did he ask for it) It is seven times more likely that you will get hit by lightning in your lifetime than winning the state lottery, yet I still see people winning the lottery all the time. See figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Data won't save me when I reach for my spare magazine and I realize I took all your sound advice and left it at home. If you don't want to carry a spare magazine fine, just don't call the rest of use paranoid because we like to be prepared. Please don't cut and paste parts of my post, these are purely my opinion, and a little support for a fellow member who makes sense to me.
+1 for creature.
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January 1, 2009, 04:34 PM | #142 | ||
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January 1, 2009, 04:58 PM | #143 |
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Say we all live in florida and all of a sudden the national weather service came on the tv and said that a hurricane was nearing the florida coast and there was a 20% chance that it will hit your town/city.Would you start sealing things up and making plans or would you just sit back with a beer and sandwhich.Me,i'de start planning and be prepared,others wouldn't.
It's a personal choice that we all have to make.I don't know who said it but i like it,"it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". As i have said before i keep extra with me when i'm on the go.When i carry in the summer i carry a snubbie .357 and an extra speed loader in my pocket. |
January 1, 2009, 05:08 PM | #144 | ||
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David, you need neither a gun nor a reload. You could talk 'em out of it. You'll never lose a debate or a gunfight. Quote:
Reginald Denny didn't go to work one day figuring to be dragged out of his truck and brain damaged to the point of (much later when he could speak again) say he had nothing against the folks that did it to him. I guess what counts is that the odds were in his favor that day. Don't confuse disparaging someone personally with criticizing their tactical philosophy. All philosophies are a target to criticism because all are in opposition to someone elses. Last edited by Nnobby45; January 1, 2009 at 05:34 PM. |
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January 1, 2009, 05:15 PM | #145 | |
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January 1, 2009, 05:19 PM | #146 | |
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But perhaps if I was offered a rare roastbeef, russian dressing, jalapeno pepper jack cheese on dark rye with a schmeer of chopped liver pate and a kosher dill, together with a belgian lager I'd be cloud watching WildjustlikeitakeasparemagwhenthereareaspateofgangshootingsonceayearAlaska TM |
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January 1, 2009, 08:35 PM | #147 | |
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First, where is the data that provides the reasoning for your not believing what has already been provided? If you say you have none, that's fine, but it establishes the point that I have been trying to make. Namely, my opinion is based on data, yours is not. You can choose to not BELIEVE that data or say that you frankly don't care what the data says but it doesn't make it NOT data or wrong data because someone chooses not to believe it. Second, I'll provide you with some more data from a neighboring thread (Armed Citizen Analysis): There were 482 incidents available for inclusion in the analysis....Overall, shots were fired by the defender in 72% of incidents. The average and median number of shots fired was 2....Reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion... When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared that the defender's initial response was to fire until empty. Let me point out the significance of this data: 482 incidents, an average of 2 shots were fired and when it was more than 2, the defender appeared to be simply emptying their gun and STILL only 2 (discounting the lion incident) needed reloads. That tells us that the VAST majority of incidents MUST have, by the rules of statistics, included no more than 2 shots fired. Also meaning that by those same rules, a large number of incidents must have been 1 shot fired or the average would be considerably higher than 2. It also seems likely to me that the two incidents needing reloads would correspond to the "firing until empty.", meaning that, in actuality, NO reloads were needed had the defender not decided to fire until empty. I admit that is conjecture but it seems logically consistent with the data. How much more data must be provided? Bottom line: Carry your extra mag, really, I don't care but carrying that extra mag is a decision based on want, not need. All the data shows that fact over and over.
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January 2, 2009, 01:13 AM | #148 | |||
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January 2, 2009, 01:16 AM | #149 | |||
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if three incidents required reloads. it's logical that shots were fired after the reload.If they shot to slide lock and threat was gone it wouldn't require a reload. Quote:
second 3 out of 482 that required a reload might disagree.
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January 2, 2009, 01:22 AM | #150 | |
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