How often/much to shoot to actually improve?

[SlvrDragon50]

I was wondering how often/how much people think it's necessary to shoot to actually see improvements in technique. Is shooting like 50-75 rds every 2 weeks enough or am I better off just going once a month and shooting a lot more?

I went to the range again yesterday, and some strings of shots were quite good while others were just pitiful, but I am renting different guns just to try them out.

[1stmar]

Pistol ? Rifle? Sounds like you are concerned about improving accuracy and not speed and accuracy. I would suggest selecting one gum to start with, one would with a good trigger and fits your hand well. Read a lot so you are practicing the right things. For pistol, you should be able to see improvements (if you are working on the right things and measuring your improvements) with 100-200 rounds a week. You should see a large improvement initially and then it will take longer to make incremental improvements. By all means get some instruction, online or live.

Quality of practice is more important than quantity.

[MarkCO]

Deep practice is better than round count. Proper practice good.

Dry-fire is the ticket. It is not as fun, but it is free. Almost all top shooters dry-fire at least as much as live fire, and some 3-4 times more. I rarely shoot less than 100 rounds at a range session, and often it is 200-300. But I always start and stop with some form of shooting a group, like a dot drill, regardless of platform.

[SlvrDragon50]

Sorry, yes. Pistol.

I am interested in improving accuracy since I am a new shooter, and I know my fundamentals are not good yet. I'm currently working on grip and the trigger pull.

I just can't seem to tell what I'm doing right/wrong when I shoot since it feels the same to me, but some shots are going right where I want them to and others are way off.

I just bought my first gun (CZ 85 Combat), but I won't be able to pick it up for a month so I've just been trying stuff out at the range.

Good to see some numbers though, guess I am just not shooting enough.

[Rangerrich99]

If your range offers classes, you would do well to take some. Having an experienced trained instructor right there next to you making observations and critiques on your mechanics/technique will be worth a year or two of just throwing rounds at paper on your own.

I've even gotten some spontaneous instruction from an RO at one of the ranges I visit.

Other than that, dry fire practice for ten minutes or so a day (doesn't sound like much, but ten to fifteen minutes can mean as much as 100-200 trigger presses).

[johnwilliamson062]

I am interested in improving accuracy since I am a new shooter, and I know my fundamentals are not good yet. I'm currently working on grip and the trigger pull.

Those are two things dry fire is perfect for training up. Outside of those select few who are handed unlimited ammunition by the government or the even fewer who have such corporate sponsorships, dry-fire, pellet rifles, and dry-firing is how the large majority of good shooters hone their skills. I'm not near the top, but without dry-fire I'm quite sure I'd be near the bottom.

[1stmar]

Plenty of videos on you tube from todd Jarret or jerry miculek. Rob leatham may have some too.

[K_Mac]

I was reminded in a recent post that it can be very difficult to identify small inconsistencies in grip, stance, etc., and harder still to correct them without help. Getting some help from a skilled teacher will save you much time and money long-term. I also think regular practice is far better than longer less frequent sessions. Good luck.

[SlvrDragon50]

Yea, that first time I went to the range, I had an awesome RO who would come by and help me improve.

This time the ROs were completely missing. I suspect the more experienced ones were busy teaching the concealed class.

Question about dry firing, if you have no firing pin block, it is safe to dry fire witthout a snap cap correct?

[JohnKSa]

It's not so much how often you go or how much you shoot as much as it is how focused and productive your training/practice is.

And, by the way, you can do a lot of training without actually firing the gun, so don't fall into the trap of thinking that you can only train at the range.

It's also worth keeping in mind that shooting isn't automatically practice/training. To practice/train effectively, you need to set goals and keep track of your progress. It's also important to set realistic and practical goals.

Question about dry firing, if you have no firing pin block, it is safe to dry fire witthout a snap cap correct?

The firearm manual should indicate whether or not the gun can be dryfired without fear of damage and will generally provide information on how to dryfire the gun without damage if there are special precautions that need to be taken.

[jmhyer]

Pretty much all modern centerfire (and even many rimfire) pistols can be safely dry fired without snap caps. For questions about specific models, it doesn't take many keyboard clicks to get an answer.

[DaleA]

IMhO joining a league and shooting regularly, competitively, is the way to go.

In my day it was pretty easy to join a shooting league, my company sponsored one. The cost was low, I met other shooters and had a good time both socially and competitively and my shooting got much better.

Hope something like that is available at your range.

[Sarge]

The most important thing to practice is safety, followed marksmanship- followed by speed.

As others have said- the quality of your practice is what counts. Decide what you want to accomplish and if it is accuracy, apply the fundamentals of marksmanship to each shot you fire. Drive is important too. Set reasonable goals and don't settle for anything less than accomplishing them.

50-75 rounds every couple of weeks will help a bunch if you use at least half on precision drills--with the goal of making every shot perfectly--and the rest on fast/close.

[pax]

400 rounds under the supervision of a competent instructor. (Start with a Defensive Handgun class at a good school; if that's too advanced, start at a lower level and work up.)

Practice what you learned by shooting 50 rounds every two or three weeks for the next five or six months, plus regular dry fire between live sessions.

Repeat with the next class up. Or repeat the same class, if it was information-dense enough that you had a hard time remembering the drills well enough to practice them on your own.

Don't waste ammo "practicing" stuff you don't know how to do. That's just a recipe for building in very stubborn and hard to erase bad habits.

pax

[Mike38]

I was wondering how often/how much people think it's necessary to shoot to actually see improvements in technique. Is shooting like 50-75 rds every 2 weeks enough or am I better off just going once a month and shooting a lot more?

Twelve or so some odd years ago I attended a United States Army Marksmanship Unit Pistol class. The lead instructor made a comment that will stick with me forever. He said "Practice does not make perfect. Prefect practice makes perfect." By that he means, ten shots in the 10-ring and calling it a day is better than 100 shots all over the paper. Ten shots in the 10-ring is a perfect practice session. To do so, you have applied all of the fundamentals of marksmanship, be it handgun or rifle.

I just got home from the range I frequent. I usually open up with a .22 pistol and shoot the course of fire required to meet the Illinois CCL. 10 rounds at 5 yards, 10 rounds at 7 yards, and 10 rounds at 10 yards. Best score possible would be a 300. I shot a 300. I probably could have gone home, but normally stay for an hour. Sure enough, towards the end of my hour I lost concentration and started putting shots out into the 9-ring, even a couple into the 8-ring. I regained composure and put the last 10 shots in the X-ring. Time to go home.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by pax

400 rounds under the supervision of a competent instructor. (Start with a Defensive Handgun class at a good school; if that's too advanced, start at a lower level and work up.)...

Absolutely. The most efficient way to start to improve is to get some good, professional instruction.

Let's look at a few basic principles:

1. The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight (or the reticle if using a scope) as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."
   
   
2. By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger.
   
   
3. Of course the gun will wobble a bit on the target. It is just not possible to hold the gun absolutely steady. Because you are alive, there will always be a slight movement caused by all the tiny movement associated with being alive: your heart beating; tiny muscular movements necessary to maintain your balance, etc. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target. And of course, properly using some form of rest will also help minimize wobble.
   
   
4. In our teaching we avoid using the words "squeeze" or "pull" to describe the actuation of the trigger. We prefer to refer to "pressing" the trigger. The word "press" seems to better describe the process of smoothly pressing the trigger straight back, with only the trigger finger moving, to a surprise break.
   
   
5. You'll want to be able to perform the fundamentals reflexively, on demand without conscious thought. You do that by practicing them slowly to develop smoothness. Then smooth becomes fast.
   
   
   1. Remember that practice doesn't make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
      
      
   2. Practice also makes permanent. If you keep practicing doing something poorly, you will become an expert at doing it poorly.
   
   
6. Many people are uncomfortable with the idea of the gun firing "by surprise." They feel that when using the gun for practical applications, e. g., hunting or self defense, they need to be able to make the gun fire right now. But if you try to make the gun fire right now, you will almost certainly jerk the trigger thus jerking the gun off target and missing your shot. That's where the "compressed surprise break" comes in.
   
   
   1. As you practice (perfectly) and develop the facility to reflexively (without conscious thought) apply a smooth, continuously increasing pressure to the trigger the time interval between beginning to press and the shot breaking gets progressively shorter until it become indistinguishable from being instantaneous. In other words, that period of uncertainty during which the shot might break, but you don't know exactly when, becomes vanishingly short. And that is the compressed surprise break.
      
      
   2. Here's an interesting video in which Jeff Cooper explains the compressed surprise break. While he is demonstrating with a handgun, the same principles apply with a rifle.
   
   
7. It may help to understand the way humans learn a physical skill.
   
   
   1. In learning a physical skill, we all go through a four step process:
      
      
      1. unconscious incompetence, we can't do something and we don't even know how to do it;
         
         
      2. conscious incompetence, we can't physically do something even though we know in our mind how to do it;
         
         
      3. conscious competence, we know how to do something but can only do it right if we concentrate on doing it properly; and
         
         
      4. unconscious competence, at this final stage we know how to do something and can do it reflexively (as second nature) on demand without having to think about it.
      
      
   2. To get to the third stage, you need to think through the physical task consciously in order to do it perfectly. You need to start slow; one must walk before he can run. The key here is going slow so that you can perform each repetition properly and smoothly. Don't try to be fast. Try to be smooth. Now here's the kicker: slow is smooth and smooth is fast. You are trying to program your body to perform each of the components of the task properly and efficiently. As the programing takes, you get smoother; and as you get smoother you get more efficient and more sure, and therefore, faster.
      
      
   3. I have in fact seen this over and over, both in the classes I've been in and with students that I've helped train. Start slow, consciously doing the physical act smoothly. You start to get smooth, and as you get smooth your pace will start to pick up. And about now, you will have reached the stage of conscious competence. You can do something properly and well as long as you think about it.
      
      
   4. To go from conscious competence to the final stage, unconscious competence, is usually thought to take around 5,000 good repetitions. The good news is that dry practice will count. The bad news is that poor repetitions don't count and can set you back. You need to work at this to get good.
      
      
   5. If one has reached the stage of unconscious competence as far as trigger control is concerned, he will be able to consistently execute a proper, controlled trigger press quickly and without conscious thought. Of course one needs to practice regularly and properly to maintain proficiency, but it's easier to maintain it once achieved than it was to first achieve it.

[Onward Allusion]

I noticed the most improvement when I shot around 200 rounds a session couple of times week. I don't shoot like that anymore due to time constraints but if I had to do it over, it would only be outdoors. I ended up damaging my hearing even with plugs and muffs and my lead levels crept up.

[ms6852]

You mentioned if it was best to shoot a few rds twice a month, or more rds once a month to improve your skills. In my opinion, going twice a month is more beneficial than once a month, simply because shooting is a diminishing skill that requires constant practice, this is where dry firing at home comes into play.

When you dry fire at home frequently several things occur. You improve your basic fundamentals of shooting, such as improving trigger control, picture sight alignment, (remember when you hit the bulls eye, can you replicate where exactly your sights were in relation to your point of impact. Were the sights perfectly aligned dead center a little high, a little low or left and right. All these are important to replicating your second bulls eye shot). Dry firing also improve muscle memory, endurance and strength.

I also believe that dry firing improves the functionality of the weapon you are using because it begins to polish the mechanical components that move with each squeeze of the trigger, thus providing a smoother working slide or trigger.

When I practice or dry fire at home if it is with a semi automatic pistol I place a sheet of paper arms length away from me with a circle the size of a quarter and a sharpen pencil inside the barrel. The point of the pencil towards the paper and the eraser towards the firing pin. I cock the pistol and squeeze. Try this 50 to 100 times and you will see the pencil marks all over that little circle if some of the pencil marks are out continue your practice until you mastered it. After that draw a smaller circle. If it is a revolver I like to use a laser and aim the laser like at an object squeeze the trigger in double action until I can get the laser dot to remain on the object every time I squeeze the trigger. This is difficult in double action.

Finally, at the range I always shoot 200 to 300 rds of 22 long rifle. I start at five yds because this way you can see immediately began to practice everything you have practice at home. First thing your picture sight alignment, than trigger control and than you see where the point of impact occurred. It does not matter where the bullet hits at first. Aim your handgun at the same place you did the first time and shoot, and repeat again until you have your bullet group. Than move back to the seven yd and 10 yds and 15 and so on and repeat the process. If all groups hit in the same area as the 5 yds shot your picture sight alignment is correct and your trigger control is in check. Of course impacts will be lower at further distance or higher depending on muzzle flip but if they strike in the general location as the first shot you are good. If it becomes necessary to adjust and you have adjustable sights than adjust accordingly, if fixed sight compensate by using Kentucky windage.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by ms6852

...In my opinion, going twice a month is more beneficial than once a month,...

And in general, more frequent, shorter practice is more beneficial than less frequent but longer practice. It's a matter of maintaining a high level of focus and really concentrating on what you are doing.

[Slamfire]

I have been a competitor shooter for a number of decades now. I shoot virtually every weekend from March through November. When the season starts up in March, everyone is struggling. Scores are awful.

Shooting is a skill. It takes constant practice. Shoot often, practice that sight alignment and trigger pull where ever and when ever. Dry firing is good as a reminder. Shoot good groups and when groups start to enlarge, your performance is deteriorating, and then pack it up and go home. People have physical limits and trying to go beyond them does not improve things. Good practice is better than bad practice.

[Maverick36]

I go twice a week 100 rounds each trip. Helps to build muscle memory .
Doing all the things right at the same time is the hard part.

[1stmar]

Another good alternative to dry firing is speer plastic primer powered bullets. You can get them from midway. They are reusable, inexpensive and can be used indoors with suitable backstop.

[JohnKSa]

They are reusable, inexpensive and can be used indoors with suitable backstop.

And suitable ventilation. Primers contain lead compounds. You'll want to be in an area that has decent ventilation and that is preferably not a living area since some of the primer residue will settle on exposed surfaces.

[5whiskey]

Lot's of good advice given here. There's nothing much I can add other than to confirm the most important things that others have said...

-Have someone else coach you for a few practice sessions It doesn't take an expensive class to learn marksmanship (it helps, but you don't have to have it). An RO, a trusted buddy who shoots and shoots well (and is somewhat intelligent), or the guy you shoot next to that knocks out the 10 ring at 10 yards every time with a pistol.

-Trigger control... you get that by dry-firing and practicing. Trigger control is the ability to pull, squeeze, press (whatever you want to call it) the trigger without moving the gun as a whole (or flinching, which definitely moves the gun as a whole). Dry fire is a good and free way to practice this. It is such an effective tool that the United States Marine Corps, known world-wide producing competent marksmen, forces it's recruits to spend a whole week dry firing before anyone ever fires their first live round. You can have a poor grip and still produce acceptable groups if you practice proper trigger control. Another good technique when you're beginning is to have a friend load dummy rounds and live rounds in a magazine and watch you as you shoot. If you have a flinching problem, the friend will see it when you pull the trigger on a dummy round

-Focus on the front sight post. It should be clear and the target should be blurry. This is the one thing that I learned when I was in the Marine Corps that took my abilities to the next level. I was a good shot before, but I could not make a 500 yard shot with iron sights for nothing. Learning this gave me that ability.



As others have also said, 10 rounds of quality practice is better than 100 rounds of junk practice. I grew up shooting rifles, and was darn good with one before I joined the Marine Corps. Never shot a pistol before then. To my dismay, when I went to coaches course I had a hard time with the pistol due to inexperience. After a couple of days and a few hundred rounds, though, it "clicked" and I got it. It was trigger control the whole time for me. I further refined my groups by proper grip, stance, "push pull," etc. Once it "clicks" for you though, it's all downhill.

[9x45]

OP, without the fundamentals of pistol: stance, grip, sight picture and trigger control, you are just blowing caps with no measurable results. Best thing you can do is take lessons from a USPSA Grand Master or IDPA Master. Practice drills should be no more than 200 rounds per session. But they should all be on scored targets under a shot timer.