Help Me Understand the Comeback of 10mm - Page 4

Glenn E. Meyer · February 2, 2018, 10:57 AM

I have deleted the digression to gender and hand size. It is an empirical question for any shooter whether they can handle a particular grip.

The question is why the market is returning for 10 mm for those who want it and can handle it.

Stick to that.

Model12Win · February 3, 2018, 01:45 AM

It's a near-.41 magnum performing auto cartridge that you can stuff a bunch in a flush-fit magazine yet doesn't require a gas-operated system to run. It holds a power and mystique that might not be the most attractive to some but is irresistible to many. I am glad it is around. Makes a great animal defense gun and some have luck with hunting with it.

Hobe Sound, Falcon · February 3, 2018, 12:31 PM

Gentlemen! Keep all the 10's, and 40S&Ws you want. My first Pistol Caliber was 9mm and so will be my last. I have owned .380s, and the Makarov Round as well, and would not mind having an old M-1911-A1 (Colt-made) just to have one, or perhaps the Norinco Copy. But 9mm is and always will be my Round. You have to stop where you feel comfortable. Plus, I told my younger Brother who loves 357Magnmum, Something he never thought of before. 9mm is a 354 in Caliber. He did not know it was that close. I wish we could get all the Police Rounds that are used all over the Country by Police Depts. but only Hornaday has one that we can buy our selfs, This is the Round used by the N.Y.P.D. called the Hazardous Duty JHP Round. 147 Grain. It is always good to shoot a more powerful version of your favorite Round, but I realize they can only improve a Round so far. Which is fine by me. By the Way, I have big Hands, and the Walther PPK in .380ACP hurts my Hands to fire it. because there is no Blackstrap on the Frame. However the PP and PPK/S I can fire all day in .380ACP Like someone said here it is what the Shooter can handle. I am lucky to have owned the finest 9mm Handgun in the World. the Walther P.88, Paul

RUT · February 3, 2018, 02:37 PM

>>And people forget that .40 S&W has improvements on the cartridge like 9mm has had done to it<<

Mustn't mention that though.

dano1200r · February 3, 2018, 02:49 PM

No caliber war here, just move on.
I said it earlier, HK doesn't have a 10, but 45 super is, according to the charts I've seen, BETTER. IMO and that of others.

disseminator · February 3, 2018, 03:08 PM

Quote:

I wish we could get all the Police Rounds that are used all over the Country by Police Depts. but only Hornaday has one that we can buy our selfs, This is the Round used by the N.Y.P.D. called the Hazardous Duty JHP Round. 147 Grain. It is always good to shoot a more powerful version of your favorite Round...

Not sure what you mean, Police use the same guns and ammo that we can all purchase. It's not magical or more powerful.

Caliber wars are dumb, shoot what you like.

dano1200r · February 3, 2018, 04:41 PM

It's actually Hornady Critical Duty, and it is135gr +p rated.

Just another reason to nuke this thread. It's getting full of

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

TruthTellers · February 3, 2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disseminator

Not sure what you mean, Police use the same guns and ammo that we can all purchase. It's not magical or more powerful.

Caliber wars are dumb, shoot what you like.

The only law enforcement ammunition that I know of that non-LEO's can't have is armor piercing handgun ammunition like for 5.7x28.

Hobe Sound, Falcon · February 3, 2018, 06:01 PM

My Mistake, I had read some about Police Ammo, and recall the Winchester Black Talon Ammo Crap all over the Media. I assumed they needed a heaver Bullet to stop someone high on Meth. Paul

disseminator · February 3, 2018, 08:59 PM

Yep, you can get the "LE Only" Ammo online. For example:

http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53618

^^^ Notice LE in the name and same ammo LE uses.

Same here:

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federa...le-ammo-p9hst2

^^^ "Law Enforcement" in the name as well.

Both better IMO than the Hornady but use what you wish, it's the same ammo sold in the big box stores, just in friendlier quantities and at lower prices.

But to be on topic for this post:

Notice the lack of good self defense ammo for the 10mm? That is partly why it's not more widely used as well as being overpowered for EDC type use in urban environments.

agtman · February 3, 2018, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen! Keep all the 10's, and 40S&Ws you want. My first Pistol Caliber was 9mm and so will be my last. I have owned .380s, and the Makarov Round as well, and would not mind having an old M-1911-A1 (Colt-made) just to have one, or perhaps the Norinco Copy. But 9mm is and always will be my Round. You have to stop where you feel comfortable. Plus, I told my younger Brother who loves 357Magnmum, Something he never thought of before. 9mm is a 354 in Caliber. He did not know it was that close. I wish we could get all the Police Rounds that are used all over the Country by Police Depts. but only Hornaday has one that we can buy our selfs, This is the Round used by the N.Y.P.D. called the Hazardous Duty JHP Round. 147 Grain. It is always good to shoot a more powerful version of your favorite Round, but I realize they can only improve a Round so far. Which is fine by me. By the Way, I have big Hands, and the Walther PPK in .380ACP hurts my Hands to fire it. because there is no Blackstrap on the Frame. However the PP and PPK/S I can fire all day in .380ACP Like someone said here it is what the Shooter can handle. I am lucky to have owned the finest 9mm Handgun in the World. the Walther.

Say wut?

agtman · February 3, 2018, 09:23 PM

Quote:

It's actually Hornady Critical Duty, and it is135gr +p rated.
Just another reason to nuke this thread. It's getting full of ...

Huh?

Koda94 · February 3, 2018, 09:35 PM

the thread seems to be off in some weird direction. The subject was understanding the comeback of the 10mm.

the "comeback" is because the 10mm fanboys were right all along and more people are seeing the versatility and power of the 10mm for a wider range of uses similar to the 357mag but in an autoloader pistol.

phil1979 · February 4, 2018, 12:59 AM

10mm seems like it'd be a fun hog hunting pistol, or even a good deer hunting pistol.

I'd certainly be glad to have it in the woods if a momma black bear charged me.

Yes, I know there are bigger and better calibers, but most of those are wheel guns. If you can get close to some of that performance AND have 15+1 rounds with spare mags, THAT is why the 10mm is gaining back its popularity.

dano1200r · February 4, 2018, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disseminator

Not sure what you mean, Police use the same guns and ammo that we can all purchase. It's not magical or more powerful.

Caliber wars are dumb, shoot what you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agtman

Huh?

I've put it in context for you

Seems like this thread is being edited, making some posts nonsensical.

**JohnKSa** · February 4, 2018, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Seems like this thread is being edited, making some posts nonsensical.

1. Users have the ability to edit their own posts for a given time period but unless the changes are made almost immediately after the original posting there will be a note at the bottom of the post indicating that it has been edited.

I do not see any evidence that the two posts you have imaged have been edited--in fact, even in the images you posted they appear to be consistent with their current state.

2. There are some posts on this thread which are bordering on nonsensical, but it does not appear to be the result of their having been edited.

CDW4ME · February 4, 2018, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disseminator

Notice the lack of good self defense ammo for the 10mm? That is partly why it's not more widely used as well as being overpowered for EDC type use in urban environments.

"Overpowered" based on KE, recoil? What?

A 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,225 fps from my Delta Elite has about the same calculated & subjective recoil as a 185 Golden Saber +P @ 1,160 fps from a 45 acp 1911.
The 180 Gold Dot expands to about .75 -.80 and penetrates same depth in water filled gallon jugs as a 230 HST, so its not overpenetrative.

If overpenetration is a primary concern the 10mm Underwood 135 gr. solves that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIya7tdvERI

agtman · February 4, 2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:

the thread seems to be off in some weird direction. The subject was understanding the comeback of the 10mm.

After an otherwise good thread has started to unravel due to a series of inane posts, it's always refreshing to see someone concisely re-set the topic. Awesome.

Quote:

The "comeback" is because the 10mm fanboys were right all along and more people are seeing the versatility and power of the 10mm for a wider range of uses similar to the 357mag but in an autoloader pistol.

This ... Just ... So ... Nailed ... It.

Nothing more to add.

Hobe Sound, Falcon · February 4, 2018, 09:02 AM

I was referring to Ammo like the Black Talon. Now I know we can buy more Brands of the LE out there. I would guess we will never be able to buy the Winchester Black Tallon again? Is this the only Ammo banned for General use by Citizens.? Paul

agtman · February 4, 2018, 09:12 AM

Quote:

* * * If overpenetration is a primary concern the 10mm Underwood 135 gr. solves that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIya7tdvERI

As does DT's 135gn 10mm load:

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.p...product_id=589

I noticed that McNett has switched from using the 135gn Nosler JHP in this load to a Sierra bullet, but at the same velocity (1600fps/768fpe). You can find several YouTuber vids testing the ammo back when the 135gn Nosler was being loaded.

This 135gn load was one of McNett's earliest offerings in DT's 10mm line (going back to about 2005 or so) and was created to satisfy customer requests for a shallow-penetrating but hard-hitting load.

seeker_two · February 4, 2018, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobe Sound, Falcon

I was referring to Ammo like the Black Talon. Now I know we can buy more Brands of the LE out there. I would guess we will never be able to buy the Winchester Black Tallon again? Is this the only Ammo banned for General use by Citizens.? Paul

Black Talons have never been banned. Winchester just quit making it to avoid the negative publicity.....then made the same ammo with a slight cosmetic difference that sold like wildfire (Ranger-T). BT was good ammo for its time, but the current ammo choices outperform it in every way.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

dano1200r · February 4, 2018, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

1. Users have the ability to edit their own posts for a given time period but unless the changes are made almost immediately after the original posting there will be a note at the bottom of the post indicating that it has been edited.

I do not see any evidence that the two posts you have imaged have been edited--in fact, even in the images you posted they appear to be consistent with their current state.

2. There are some posts on this thread which are bordering on nonsensical, but it does not appear to be the result of their having been edited.

I agree. I was switching between this and another thread on a different Tapatalk board, and made a non relative post myself here. My apologies.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Iron bottom · February 4, 2018, 04:47 PM

If I could have only one pistol, it would be a 10mm in a 1911 configuration.

R I Swampyankee · February 4, 2018, 05:03 PM

Seems I see more 1911's being worn on Alaskan outdoor shows. But they are in 10 mm and not 45. Its become popular in bear country as a protection piece.

m&p45acp10+1 · February 4, 2018, 05:44 PM

I like the 10mm round. I do not own one myself, (yet.) I have shot a great number of them that are owned by friends, and family. Recoil while it was there is not too awful bad in all the full sized guns I have fired. My .44 Mag, and .41 Mag with max power loads have more recoil than 10mm ever will.

Before I started reloading I liked the round. It was just too expensive to find ammo for. It seemed that only the local gun stores carried it, and what they carried was premium defense rounds. So it was not for me as $35 plus for 20 rounds was too rich for my blood. Once I started to reload it looked promising as I knew I could cut the cost down by reloading for it. The next hurdle was brass was hard to find, and costly when you could find it. In all of my years as a range rat. I have recovered exactly 5 pieces of 10mm brass. I am sure the guy that lost them lost a few nights sleep wondering where they are. So that puts range pick up brass off the table. Now I can find brass at the local Cabela's.

I was going to buy a 10mm Glock Model 40 MOS. I had the cash and everything. Then someone put a like new Colt Trooper MKIII in front of me with a price that was too good to pass up. I will in the future own the Glock, and get a brass catcher for it.

February 2, 2018, 10:57 AM	#76
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I have deleted the digression to gender and hand size. It is an empirical question for any shooter whether they can handle a particular grip. The question is why the market is returning for 10 mm for those who want it and can handle it. Stick to that. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 3, 2018, 12:31 PM	#78
Hobe Sound, Falcon Member Join Date: November 12, 2017 Location: Hobe Sound, Fla. Posts: 27	Gentlemen! Keep all the 10's, and 40S&Ws you want. My first Pistol Caliber was 9mm and so will be my last. I have owned .380s, and the Makarov Round as well, and would not mind having an old M-1911-A1 (Colt-made) just to have one, or perhaps the Norinco Copy. But 9mm is and always will be my Round. You have to stop where you feel comfortable. Plus, I told my younger Brother who loves 357Magnmum, Something he never thought of before. 9mm is a 354 in Caliber. He did not know it was that close. I wish we could get all the Police Rounds that are used all over the Country by Police Depts. but only Hornaday has one that we can buy our selfs, This is the Round used by the N.Y.P.D. called the Hazardous Duty JHP Round. 147 Grain. It is always good to shoot a more powerful version of your favorite Round, but I realize they can only improve a Round so far. Which is fine by me. By the Way, I have big Hands, and the Walther PPK in .380ACP hurts my Hands to fire it. because there is no Blackstrap on the Frame. However the PP and PPK/S I can fire all day in .380ACP Like someone said here it is what the Shooter can handle. I am lucky to have owned the finest 9mm Handgun in the World. the Walther P.88, Paul __________________ Honored Nephew of RM2. Robert E. Truitt, C-Division, U.S.S. Indianapolis, CA-35, 30-July, 1945. In loving Memory of CW4. Paul E. Truitt, 22-September, 1929, 23 February, 2018

February 3, 2018, 02:37 PM	#79
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	>>And people forget that .40 S&W has improvements on the cartridge like 9mm has had done to it<< Mustn't mention that though. __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

February 3, 2018, 02:49 PM	#80
dano1200r Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 30	No caliber war here, just move on. I said it earlier, HK doesn't have a 10, but 45 super is, according to the charts I've seen, BETTER. IMO and that of others. Last edited by dano1200r; February 4, 2018 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Corrected my post

February 3, 2018, 06:01 PM	#84
Hobe Sound, Falcon Member Join Date: November 12, 2017 Location: Hobe Sound, Fla. Posts: 27	My Mistake, I had read some about Police Ammo, and recall the Winchester Black Talon Ammo Crap all over the Media. I assumed they needed a heaver Bullet to stop someone high on Meth. Paul __________________ Honored Nephew of RM2. Robert E. Truitt, C-Division, U.S.S. Indianapolis, CA-35, 30-July, 1945. In loving Memory of CW4. Paul E. Truitt, 22-September, 1929, 23 February, 2018

February 3, 2018, 01:45 AM	#77
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	It's a near-.41 magnum performing auto cartridge that you can stuff a bunch in a flush-fit magazine yet doesn't require a gas-operated system to run. It holds a power and mystique that might not be the most attractive to some but is irresistible to many. I am glad it is around. Makes a great animal defense gun and some have luck with hunting with it.

February 3, 2018, 04:41 PM	#82
dano1200r Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 30	It's actually Hornady Critical Duty, and it is135gr +p rated. Just another reason to nuke this thread. It's getting full of Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

February 3, 2018, 08:59 PM	#85
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 960	Yep, you can get the "LE Only" Ammo online. For example: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53618 ^^^ Notice LE in the name and same ammo LE uses. Same here: http://www.sgammo.com/product/federa...le-ammo-p9hst2 ^^^ "Law Enforcement" in the name as well. Both better IMO than the Hornady but use what you wish, it's the same ammo sold in the big box stores, just in friendlier quantities and at lower prices. But to be on topic for this post: Notice the lack of good self defense ammo for the 10mm? That is partly why it's not more widely used as well as being overpowered for EDC type use in urban environments.

February 3, 2018, 09:35 PM	#88
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,294	the thread seems to be off in some weird direction. The subject was understanding the comeback of the 10mm. the "comeback" is because the 10mm fanboys were right all along and more people are seeing the versatility and power of the 10mm for a wider range of uses similar to the 357mag but in an autoloader pistol. __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

February 4, 2018, 12:59 AM	#89
phil1979 Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2018 Posts: 8	10mm seems like it'd be a fun hog hunting pistol, or even a good deer hunting pistol. I'd certainly be glad to have it in the woods if a momma black bear charged me. Yes, I know there are bigger and better calibers, but most of those are wheel guns. If you can get close to some of that performance AND have 15+1 rounds with spare mags, THAT is why the 10mm is gaining back its popularity.

February 4, 2018, 09:02 AM	#94
Hobe Sound, Falcon Member Join Date: November 12, 2017 Location: Hobe Sound, Fla. Posts: 27	I was referring to Ammo like the Black Talon. Now I know we can buy more Brands of the LE out there. I would guess we will never be able to buy the Winchester Black Tallon again? Is this the only Ammo banned for General use by Citizens.? Paul __________________ Honored Nephew of RM2. Robert E. Truitt, C-Division, U.S.S. Indianapolis, CA-35, 30-July, 1945. In loving Memory of CW4. Paul E. Truitt, 22-September, 1929, 23 February, 2018

February 4, 2018, 04:47 PM	#98
Iron bottom Member Join Date: May 26, 2005 Posts: 52	If I could have only one pistol, it would be a 10mm in a 1911 configuration.

February 4, 2018, 05:03 PM	#99
R I Swampyankee Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2018 Location: Tiverton R I Posts: 7	10 mm Seems I see more 1911's being worn on Alaskan outdoor shows. But they are in 10 mm and not 45. Its become popular in bear country as a protection piece.

February 4, 2018, 05:44 PM	#100
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I like the 10mm round. I do not own one myself, (yet.) I have shot a great number of them that are owned by friends, and family. Recoil while it was there is not too awful bad in all the full sized guns I have fired. My .44 Mag, and .41 Mag with max power loads have more recoil than 10mm ever will. Before I started reloading I liked the round. It was just too expensive to find ammo for. It seemed that only the local gun stores carried it, and what they carried was premium defense rounds. So it was not for me as $35 plus for 20 rounds was too rich for my blood. Once I started to reload it looked promising as I knew I could cut the cost down by reloading for it. The next hurdle was brass was hard to find, and costly when you could find it. In all of my years as a range rat. I have recovered exactly 5 pieces of 10mm brass. I am sure the guy that lost them lost a few nights sleep wondering where they are. So that puts range pick up brass off the table. Now I can find brass at the local Cabela's. I was going to buy a 10mm Glock Model 40 MOS. I had the cash and everything. Then someone put a like new Colt Trooper MKIII in front of me with a price that was too good to pass up. I will in the future own the Glock, and get a brass catcher for it. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.