The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 15, 2020, 09:43 PM   #1
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
import 1911 and premature slide lock

I've bought a budget 1911 pattern .45 acp pistol, a Tisas. Upfront, I knew it was a clone, not a Colt or Kimber, etc, and expected to tweak and it would be a project/hobby gun. Overall, I am more than satisfied, but am experiencing a consistent failure, premature slidelock.

Typically on a partial magazine......and it would seem on all my magazines, including a new Wilson and another Wilson near new. Most usually on factory W-W 230 gr ball ammo. My reloads using a 230 gr lead RN, are milder and do not seem to cause as many pre-locks.

What seems to be happening is that the nose of a live cartridge is nudging the lug for the slide stop lever while feeding up. Frequently, on a failure, the slide will be locked open, and a round will be about 1/3 out of the mag, just up the ramp. With a full mag, there seems to be enough tension in the mag box & stack of cartridges, that the rounds do not get to moving about and the fails do not occur. My milder reloads similarly do not seem to jar cartridges around in the mag box as much, thus fewer fails with them, but it does still occur.

Seems a common 1911 issue. What to do?
-Relieve the inner lug on the slide stop (not a lot to work with)?
-Dimple the face of the slide lock lever where the plunger bears?
-I suspect changing bullet styles to a SWC may help, none on hand, and I'd really like this gun to shoot hardball reliably, I've got a lot on hand.
-This was a budget buy, I don't want to sink money into it for a new Wilson lever or other high end new part. My expectations are not that high, but this stumble seems like it could be resolved.
bamaranger is offline  
Old May 15, 2020, 10:16 PM   #2
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,266
Take off the barrel and slide.
Put the slide stop back in.
Insert a loaded magazine.
Look for contact between top bullet nose and slide stop.
Look for copper tracks on slide stop lug.

File.

CAUTION. It easy to take off too much and lose function.
I filed one until it quit prematuring but with a little wear it quit slide locking reliably and I had to repla$e the lever.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 12:27 AM   #3
stinkeypete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 555
what Jim said but I would measure the slide stop pin diameter while I was at it. I think it's supposed to be 0.2000

Also... top quality magazines are just a 1911 thing. Spend the money on top quality magazines ( topic of itself) and see if the problem simply doesn't resolve itself.

Oh.. if you are stuffing 8 rounds in there, expect trouble.

Last edited by stinkeypete; May 16, 2020 at 12:34 AM.
stinkeypete is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 12:40 AM   #4
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
This is a known problem. Kimbers were so prone to it that if you called Kimer about it, they just sent you a new slide stop.

I don't think M1911.org will mind if I use their drawing of the fix:



I use a jewelers file with a curved, not flat, face.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 02:29 AM   #5
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 21,586
I would suggest something else, once you're sure if the bullets are hitting the slide stop, or not.

(and assuming you're POSITIVE you're not accidently hitting and engaging the stop)

Take a look at the slide stop plunger (and spring) and the face of the slide stop where the plunger bears.

IF the bullets aren't pushing the slide stop up, and you're not either, that leaves recoil, "bouncing" the slide stop up and not enough contact or tension from the plunger to hold it in place.

PERHAPS a slight deepening of the dimple that should be there will do it, BUT you can over do it, to the point where the mag follower has trouble lifting the stop when it should.

OR the plunger nose might need some work. Lots of things are possible, so look at everything, before you file something, be sure its the thing that needs the work.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 10:36 AM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,266
True, the plunger might be short or the spring weak.
And what dimple? I have not seen a factory or aftermarket slide stop with a dimple.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 03:34 PM   #7
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
Some peopke like to put a dimple in the aft face of the slide stop. The USGI blueprints don't call for one.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 28, 2020, 01:54 AM   #8
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
improvement

Some VERY judicious stoning of the upper surface slide stop lug on the interior seems to have improved matters. Seventy five rounds fired the other day, no false locks. It seemed I removed little more than the finish, but things apparently have improved.
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 1, 2020, 11:32 PM   #9
Bart Noir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2000
Location: Puget Sound, USA
Posts: 2,207
I had exactly the same problem after buying a slightly used Kimber Govt version.

I fixed the same way as you are doing. And it took more than one try because I didn't want to take too much metal off. I was gently filing. Very gently.

Interesting that I have a Combat Commander which show brass streaks from bullets rubbing on the slide stop lever, as they pass by and into the chamber, but never has had a problem with the lever activating when it should not.

Bart Noir
__________________
Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!
Bart Noir is offline  
Old June 2, 2020, 04:50 AM   #10
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Swamp dweller
Posts: 6,068
Quote:
Also... top quality magazines are just a 1911 thing. Spend the money on top quality magazines ( topic of itself) and see if the problem simply doesn't resolve itself.
He did. He stated Wilson mags
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer,
ICORE Range Officer,
,MAG 40 Graduate
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old June 2, 2020, 09:55 AM   #11
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger
Some VERY judicious stoning of the upper surface slide stop lug on the interior seems to have improved matters.
I prefer to use a jewelers file because the sets usually include one with a gently curved face. We're looking to modify the lug to allow the ogive of the bullet to get past the slide stop lug. The bullet ogive is, of course, a curve. Going at the lug with a stone means a straight cut, taking off material where no material needs to be taken off. It's also more difficult to control exactly where a stone is going to cut, or at what angle.

I guess it's a matter of preference. I have a lot of different stones in my toolbox, but it never occurred to me to use a stone for this particular job.

Whether you use a stone or a file, by all means go slowly. If you don't take off enough, you can always try again. If you take off too much, it's not easy to replace the missing material.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 2, 2020, 12:41 PM   #12
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
honest Abe

Using a stone was not a matter of preference. To borrow Lincoln's statement when discussing marginal Union officers, ..."we must use the tools we have."

The stone was indeed difficult to work with and the curved jewelers file sounds the better tool. I was darn careful, and it seems to have solved the problem. Hope to shoot some more this PM, we'll see.
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 3, 2020, 01:01 AM   #13
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
more trouble, tale of the Tisas

Well, ....I wanted a project gun and I got one. Took the Tisas to the range and fired 81 rds of 200 gr LSWC from MO Bullets. The good news, no false locks, but I did not really expect any with the LSWC. I learned that the pistol does not like that slug as loaded and experienced a number of failures to feed. Part of the problem is that to get the MO LSWC to chamber, I had to seat them shorter than I'd like, at 1.240". I had a smaller quantity of "X" brand LSWC, which would chamber at 1.260, and the 25 or so of those I shot at an earlier date seemed to feed fine.

The bad news...at round 81, the slide stop plate fractured. New slide stop ordered. Total rounds through the Tisas to date, 505.
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 3, 2020, 01:04 AM   #14
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
Oops!

Wrong part described, meant .........firing pin stop (plate).
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 3, 2020, 08:59 AM   #15
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,266
2. Somebody might say something about your cheap Turkish copy.
Not me.
I had a case of bullet bump into premature slide lock... with a Springfield.
I had a broken firing pin stop... on a Colt.

1. I have given up on semiwadcutters, wanting something I can put in any .45 and it Just Work. I have found a couple of sources of 200 grain roundnose so I get the same ballistics, even though not the neat holes in targets.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old June 3, 2020, 11:23 AM   #16
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
Years ago M1911.org reviewed one of the first Tisas 1911s to come into the U.S. They were imported by Umarex USA back then. IIRC, their test encountered problems chambering some rounds. They went back and forth with the importer, eventually they were sent a replacement barrel, and the problem was solved. Apparently Tisas may not ream a long enough leade ahead of the chamber.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 4, 2020, 01:44 AM   #17
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
$300 and more of the tale

Well, it was cheap........like $300 bucks plus tax, as new. As I stated earlier, my expectations were not that high. The use of the LSWC bullets was an attempt to bypass the slidestop/false lock issue without modifying/fitting the pistol. Since I have in fact now whittled on the slide stop lug, the LSWC's are simply on hand. What I really should have done the other day was to shoot some more FMJ/ball from it and see if my fitting solved the issue. I intended to bring both FMJ and LSWC, but left the FMJ at the house.

Regards the barrel. Early on, just a week or so into the tale, bamaboy was shooting the Tisas, had a squib,performed a tap/rack/bang, and followed the squib with another round, jugging the barrel and the splitting barrel bushing. So for the last 400 rds or so, the Tisas has had a E.A Brown replacement barrel and bushing. ( the kid bought me the new barrel, even though it was my reload... how 'bout that?)

Tonight I reloaded some more MO Bullet Co 200 gr LSWC and seated them to 1.250". They do chamber, though just barely. More importantly, I can extract the live round, but I can feel a wee bit of "stick" on occasion. Hoping that the additional .010" improves reliability in the Tisas. If it doesn't, I bet the Glock 21 or the SIG will cycle them!!!!!

Watson, just heard about your circumstances, will call soon.
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 4, 2020, 10:29 AM   #18
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger
Tonight I reloaded some more MO Bullet Co 200 gr LSWC and seated them to 1.250". They do chamber, though just barely. More importantly, I can extract the live round, but I can feel a wee bit of "stick" on occasion.
1.250" sounds long for a 200-grain LSWC. Do they pass the "plunk" test?
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 4, 2020, 01:29 PM   #19
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 21,586
Quote:
Regards the barrel. Early on, just a week or so into the tale, bamaboy was shooting the Tisas, had a squib,performed a tap/rack/bang, and followed the squib with another round, jugging the barrel and the splitting barrel bushing.
This is the result of a training issue I have been whining about for years. I understand the reasoning for teaching failure drills, and the rational about "this is what you do when people are shooting at you, so this is what you do in training".

I just don't agree with the way its taught. Because it is 180 degrees opposite what basic gun safety is. Teaching people to automatically "tap, rack, bang" is what caused the damage to that gun due to a squib.

As far as I'm concerned, ANY malfunction of the firearm or ammo means TRAINING IS OVER, right now! And so is shooting that gun until the malfunction has been determined and corrected.

I just have a problem with the idea of "do this when the gun doesn't fire" before even knowing WHY the gun didn't fire.

Just curious, is Bamaboy going to have to pay for the damage? Or is his instructor going to?? Because as I see it, both are responsible.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 4, 2020, 04:55 PM   #20
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 14,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger
Regards the barrel. Early on, just a week or so into the tale, bamaboy was shooting the Tisas, had a squib,performed a tap/rack/bang, and followed the squib with another round, jugging the barrel and the splitting barrel bushing. So for the last 400 rds or so, the Tisas has had a E.A Brown replacement barrel and bushing. ( the kid bought me the new barrel, even though it was my reload... how 'bout that?)
What is "jugging" the barrel? Does that mean the barrel was damaged in some way, or merely blocked?
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 4, 2020, 11:18 PM   #21
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,266
If you stick a bullet in the barrel (Internet Squib) and blow it out with the next shot, it will bulge the barrel. "Jugging " it in the vernacular.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old June 5, 2020, 12:25 AM   #22
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
sidetrack

I've caused this thread to o wander a bit, sorry. Initial posting was regards the false lock. A bit more FMJ will allow me to advise further on that issue.

I may well start another thread on the "Tales of the Tisas".
bamaranger is offline  
Old June 19, 2020, 12:06 AM   #23
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 7,160
last call & SUCCESS w/ a dimple

This is it for Tales of the Tisas.

Yeah, to answer the barrel question, bamaboy bought me a barrel, I'd advised earlier but thought I'd repeat it. I was there, it was my reloaded ammo, but did not catch the fact that he'd had a squib. The gun was repairable and nobody got hurt and we both learned something. Tap, rack, evaluate is likely the better course than tap, rack, bang, or in this case, tap, rack...kaboom.

Regards the plunk test. A friend has loaned me a different crimp die, which will take my loads down to .468-9". The die I was using previously would only go down to .473", and then begin to roll crimp. This second die is a true taper crimp die. The 200/LSWC, crimped to .468-9, at a C.O.A.L of 1.250", does indeed plunk and can be manually unloaded easily. To date, LSWC cartridges loaded 1.250/.468-9" do feed and function.

The overal length and crimp change appears to have a positive result. I'd add here that the literature with the new Wilson mag recommends those very specs for best function. I even ran a quantity of 250 gr LRN/FP loads thru the taper die. These big slugs would not even go into battery previously. After passing through the taper crimp die, the extra heavy bullet loads feed and function too. Sorry can't advise on COAL on those.

Finally, the false locks. My original diagnoses was that the nose of FMJ ball ammo was bumping the lug and that was correct. But I also was experiencing falselocks with LSWC occassionally as well, and there was no way that narrow nosed SWC was striking the lug. I was certain I was not bumping it with my hands while firing either. I'd shot the pistol enough at this point (500+ rds) to notice that "mild" ammo did not seem to have as many false locks as hotter loads. So I hypothesized that I may well have a "bounce" or inertial movement upon firing with the slide stop as well. Using a friends table top mill, I had a dimple cut in the face of the slide stop where the plunger bears. To date, two range sessions with full power, mixed LSWC and ball ammo and NO falselocks.
bamaranger is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13085 seconds with 10 queries