What exactly makes a good AR trigger?

[stagpanther]

The subject of AR trigger recommendations comes up pretty often--and invariably it's one brand vs another at a comparative price point.

I'd like to hear instead what is your definition of a good AR trigger--let's forget about price and maker.

[FrankenMauser]

Safe.
Reliable.
Two-stage is fine, but no creep or sponginess allowed.
Clean and crisp break.
Positive, but not ridiculous, reset.

Beyond that, you're into things like pull weight, appearance, trigger bow shape, etc.; but they can need to vary depending upon the application and personal preference.

[MarkCO]

Consistent and reliable, crisp break.

I have like 7 different brands in my ARs. I have two I prefer, but none of them are bad or worth replacing.

[Nathan]

Safe
Reliable
Proper weight for application
Proper feel/pull length for application
Good feel to trigger face
Reasonably short overtravel
Reasonably short reset
Doesn't limit ability to perform in a certain application.


If ultra crisp, I like a 2 stage or some take up.

[MTT TL]

I grew up shooting crappy triggers in the issue weapons in the military. Triggers in AR's are not nearly as important as in say a handgun or a bolt rifle. A lot of it depends upon what you are doing with it of course but even sloppy trigger that is safe and reliable will work just fine for the vast majority of non-competitive shooters out there.

[Nathan]

I should be more clear....the AR trigger has 3 main flaws...

Zero Take Up - No big deal on the near 7 lb stock triggers, but would be a real pain in the butt, if you had a crisp 8 oz trigger. This requires a 2 stage setup or a cassette with an extra part.

Sear Engagement Excessive - It has way more sear engagement than any other rifle capable of its level of precision. This is presumably due to hole to hole tolerance, The cassette triggers fix this by eliminating the lower's hole variation from effecting axis to axis accuracy.

Feel - The trigger is so rough, you feel every bit of sear release. Overtravel excessive for reliability. Not to mention that a 7 lb trigger is ridiculous on a 1 MOA capable rifle.

Triggers like the ALG ACT or the PSA EPT are great for a basic battle rifle setup and are quit reasonable in price.

For these reasons, I like basic 2 stage triggers like the RRA or the Giessele, but I strongly prefer top level triggers like the RA140 or even better the Triggertech adjustable. The Triggertech is truely amazing, but still a bit heavy.

[stagpanther]

Great responses--thanks--I like Franken's ideal--plus I also like the fact Nathan points out that the appropriateness of the trigger depends on the set-up and/or intended use. I don't do long range bench comps or 3 gun--so the best triggers for those applications might not have any appeal to me. I once switched out a stock AK trigger for a super-smooth light-pull trigger--and for some reason I can't explain it just didn't work for me so I switched back to the gritty heavy-pull stock trigger. Go figure.

[FrankenMauser]

The funny thing is...
The best trigger that I have in one of my lowers is the discontinued Geissele SS2-E. (Super-Semi 2-stage, Enhanced ... not much different than the SSA-E, except for spring weights and no slave pins in the 'kit'. I think it was replaced by the cheaper G2S [with heavier springs].)
It's a 2-lb first stage and 1.5 lb second stage, for a 3.5 lb break.

...But I'd actually prefer it to be backward - 1.5 lb first stage and 2 lb second stage - or even a little heavier.
Most of my rifles have stock triggers, or they're milsurps with typically gritty, long, spongy, heavy triggers. Sometimes, the transition between rifles is difficult ... with some "premature release" happening with the good triggers of the Geissele and a couple bolt guns.


I don't mind a good heavy trigger.
But a light trigger still isn't good unless it's clean and crisp.

[stagpanther]

...But I'd actually prefer it to be backward - 1.5 lb first stage and 2 lb second stage - or even a little heavier.

I've done some adjustable 2 stage triggers--that scenario becomes difficult as the first stage "lightens" and starts feeling like long take-up and the point of breaking becomes less defined. Complex geometry that affects sear and disconnector timing too--I pushed the boundaries a wee bit far once and found out what the gun (happened to be one of my bigger AR 10's) would be like full-auto.

That's why, I believe, so many like the RRA and CMC 2 stage triggers--they have a "tactile definable" first stage that establishes pressure on the bow while adjusting/keeping the sight aligned on target. Just my less than 2 cents.

[Double Naught Spy]

What FM said in his first post.

With that said, I like single stage triggers as well, with NO creep and as little overtravel as possible. I have shot 1 stage triggers with so much creep, they were a lot like they were 2 stage triggers with a very like first stage and really heavy second stage. Hated them.

I have a buddy with such a slopped 2 stage trigger that it feels like a single stage with a very long creep. There is no positive sensation to when the trigger will break. He likes it that way. Feels like mush to me.

My point? What is good or not good can really depend on the shooter's preferences.

[JeepHammer]

Define 'SAFE'...

What's 'Safe' for a bench queen isn't anywhere close to 'Safe' for a field rifle.

------

I don't subscribe to the zero over-travel idea either.
It might be OK when it takes a couple ounces to trip the hammer, but in a field rifle do you REALLY want a hard stop, 3 or more pounds of moving force on the rifle before the bullet exits the muzzle?

[stagpanther]

Define 'SAFE'...

What's 'Safe' for a bench queen isn't anywhere close to 'Safe' for a field rifle.

I think I understand what you are saying--but can you be more specific as to why that is?

[Nathan]

SAFE - Firearm does not fire without part breakage or intentional pull of the trigger by the primary user after all safety mechanisms are disengaged.

On a mil spec AR, safe is created by making a 7lb trigger with long sear engagement. The weight and length are designed to ensure a pulled trigger fires the gun, not an excited partially trained recruit. In addition, the longer sear travel helps with trigger pin hole tolerances and distributes the force of the hammer spring into a larger area to prevent accidental firing from trigger nose wear/damage.

All good stuff, but modern AR’s use cassette designs, through hardened tool steels, if I remember right, some have a primary sear and a large secondary catch sear, in case the primary sear is damaged or grit causes it not to engage.

To truly be safe, I’m surprised the AR does not have a firing pin block. What it does have is a rock solid safety that locks the trigger in place and therefore locks the hammer in place....like a 1911.

Still....when will we see a safe 8 oz AR trigger with some take up, a hard wall, 0 creep no perceived overtravel and a short reset? Yes, for benchrest. Too light for tactical or battle. Likely unreliable in blowing and drifting sand environments too.


Great AR trigger for standard AR’s on sale!...LINK

[stagpanther]

Interesting--since a stock mil-spec trigger is almost always the first thing everyone replaces when buying or configuring an AR.

[HWS]

"safe" should go without saying. Unsafe is a defective throw away trigger.

My criteria:

Short--short travel distance to actual firing.
Smooth--not gritty
Light---are we doing pullups?
Quick, short, reset
Single stage

[HWS]

The OP mentioned the trigger is one of the first things replaced in the AR. I have a theory why. The AR mil spec trigger is a combat trigger for semi/full auto. In full auto you don't care any more about the trigger, you just want to make sure you don't fire by accident.

Our ARs are different, no full auto. So, after firing, we want a trigger which can be fired in semi auto just as soon as we regain a good sight picture. This is not the long, stiff, gritty mil spec. So we upgrade. What we are really doing is maximizing our semi auto performance into something the original Stoner AR 15/M16/M4 does not do as well.

[stagpanther]

The OP mentioned the trigger is one of the first things replaced in the AR. I have a theory why. The AR mil spec trigger is a combat trigger for semi/full auto. In full auto you don't care any more about the trigger, you just want to make sure you don't fire by accident.

Our ARs are different, no full auto. So, after firing, we want a trigger which can be fired in semi auto just as soon as we regain a good sight picture. This is not the long, stiff, gritty mil spec. So we upgrade. What we are really doing is maximizing our semi auto performance into something the original Stoner AR 15/M16/M4 does not do as well.

Makes a lot of sense to me--so the "safe" factor can vary depending upon the weapon application.

[Mobuck]

My winter EDC carbine has a 4# trigger that does what I expect. Only goes bang when I want and doesn't require the concentration of a Buddhist monk to get a good release.

[kymasabe]

I think "good" is subjective and up to the shooter. For me, I want something that resembles mil-spec, easy to work on, very little creep, light trigger pull in the 4.5lb range, and clean break. My current go-to triggers are Hiperfire EDT triggers.

[ed308]

Reliable (always goes bang), safe (don't go off if firearm dropped), consistent (between pulls), and low priced. I can think of one trigger that fits my needs, but I won't say the name. Ya'll know which one I'm talking about.

[stagpanther]

LOL--yes I do know which one you're talking about--hope to get one shortly and test it.

[pete2]

I have 2 ARs. AN RRA and a Ruger btttom/RRA upper. Both have 2 stage triggers, both factory, both weigh 4.5 lbs with my Midway scale. These triggers are about right for me. I hate the 7 lb single stage triggers, can't deal with them. Some folks cant seem to shoot if the pull is over 8 oz. ????????????????????

[stagpanther]

Only goes bang when I want and doesn't require the concentration of a Buddhist monk to get a good release.

5th stage enlightenment is good for at least .25 MOA reduction.

[davidsog]

Makes a lot of sense to me--so the "safe" factor can vary depending upon the weapon application.

Exactly.

What is safe for a weapon that gets pulled out of the case to put holes in paper is not practical or safe for a combat weapon.

99% you are carrying the rifle doing everything else but shooting at the enemy. A military rifle gets dropped, fallen on, and abused. Not because soldiers are stupid and do not know how to take care of weapon but rather the nature of warfare is 99% of the time is spent getting ready or moving into a position to kill the enemy. Moving thru difficult terrain is by nature....difficult, LOL.

You do not want a weapon that cannot handle the practical realities of combat. Just using proper movement under fire techniques makes a target trigger impractical. You are going to shoot yourself or the wrong folks.

For example, the HK-91/G-3 series has a wonderful trigger for an Infantry rifle. One of the first things many people do is go get a trigger job that makes the rifle better for punching holes in paper on a sunday afternoon but eliminates the dropsafe requirement for practical combat use.

You see the same thing in the adult lego rifle, AR-15 platform.

Which is the nice thing about being an adult lego....you can build it according to your wants....just make sure it is really what you want!!

[davidsog]

The M-14 is another great example. It is has a very nice practical combat trigger already that people go ruin to punch holes in paper.

If you want a good combat trigger for your AR-15, Uncle Sam has already done the homework for you. Put a milspec trigger in it and learn to shoot that effectively.