224 Valk

[COSteve]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I have a 5.56 carbine (of course) but I'm principally interested in the heavier weight bullets for the valk-- 62 grs being as far as I go in a 5.56.

You're missing out not trying the 68/69grn bullets for a bit better long range performance unless your AR is like a 1:10 or something. My 1:9 Wylde chambered A4 loves 68grn Hornady HPBTs and TAC powder out to 400yds on apples!!

[stagpanther]

* Federal's crosswind drift claim of only 59.92" is difficult for me to believe as it's totally inconsistent with the other data they provide that's exactly consistent with Handload.com's calculations on drop and velocity. Using it I found that a 90grn, .224" diameter bullet with a BC of .563 as they claim that drops 381.08" at 1,000yds starts with a MV of 2,590fps on a 85° day. I tried a 75° day and the closest I could get was 2,606fps with a drop of 380.11 and a drift of 79.98". I also tried a 95° day and the closest I could get was 2,577fps with a drop of 381.26 and a drift of 77.39" so it looks to me like they also used 85° as the drop is exactly the same and that drift is calculated at 78.71", a far cry from the 59.92" Federal claims.

They left out it was a laterally moving target?

[stagpanther]

You're missing out not trying the 68/69grn bullets for a bit better long range performance unless your AR is like a 1:10 or something. My 1:9 Wylde chambered A4 loves 68grn Hornady HPBTs and TAC powder out to 400yds on apples!!

No worries mate--I have plenty of those--as well as a grab bag of berger 73 gr match and 80.5 fullbore bullets. berger secant bullets can be a tad touchy in an AR action though--but when they do work I haven't found anything better.

[ed308]

distance and velocity--maybe; energy, highly doubtful.


Yep, target use only.

My .223 Wylde ARs are fed nothing but 69 and 77 gr Nosler Custom Comps over Varget.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

funny you mention it; I've seen that comparison made. Thanks for the input.

I have a selection of bullets from 70 to 90 grains on way, including, of course, 90 gr matchkings.

BTW--have you tried anything bigger than 90gr? real curious about that.

I have shot 90s and 100s as well.

BTW, factory loaded 90 grain ammo is a waste at this point. Also, 24" is the Federal test barrel length. I have found their numbers to be pretty close, but all my 90 grain rounds have been handloads since I know there are issues with the factory loaded 90s from Federal.

[Mobuck]

{Define "exceeded."}

The cartridge produces too much gas volume to be properly handled by the DI system even with reduced port size, adjustable gas blocks, and/or heavier buffers.
Burning larger amounts of slower burning powders far exceeds the parameters of the original design.

[jimbob86]

Burning larger amounts of slower burning powders far exceeds the parameters of the original design.

Hot Rodders gonna hot rod........ It's their money, let them set it on fire.

I looked at it and it does not suit my needs, which is mostly hunting...... It would extend the capabilities of the .223, but not to the extent that stepping up to a 308WIN or 6.5 CM...... at a higher cost for brass...... if such could be found ...... and as Mobuck noted, I don't think the AR was designed for that kind of beating......

[Damon555]

No help from me. I don't see a real need for 90 grain .224 bullets. I have a .308.

I agree.....might as well be shooting a 6mm......Now a 22 Nosler loaded with 40 grain bullets in a slow twist barrel would really be something. Never understood the heavy for caliber, fast twist concept for anything other than military use.

[ed308]

I agree.....might as well be shooting a 6mm......Now a 22 Nosler loaded with 40 grain bullets in a slow twist barrel would really be something.

But all current 6mm AR15 cartridges are wildcats. The .224 Valkyrie is a SAAMI cartridge. And the 22 Nosler, it destroys the brass. Nosler should've left the brass the same as the 6.8. They've used stronger 6.8 bolts instead of the undersized .223/5.56 bolts.

If Federal's smart, they introduce a 6mm wildcat that uses either 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel brass. It would be a hot seller.

[stagpanther]

ARP offers the 6mm cats.

[Damon555]

Got a 6mmAR sitting right next to me.



I suspect that I'll be getting a 22-6.5G wildcat in the future.....Although with the length of the 6.8 case it would probably work just fine for my needs too.....I want light bullets going fast! My 6XC has the long stuff covered.

The Valkyrie was interesting at first but the more I thought about it the more I realized that it's niche is so small that it really is a one trick pony....especially with the fast twist barrels.

[stagpanther]

I suspect that I'll be getting a 22-6.5G wildcat in the future

I've played the "make the 6.5 go faster game" for a while; my conclusion is it's a paper chase to try to get extra performance in an AR15 based rig--at least with the commonly achievable options that will double stack in magazine.

I built a 458 socom and it works flawlessly--though it's a bit of a thumper for an AR when you fire a warm load. The beauty of that design is that it was perfected to ensure reliability in a single-stack feed--including the extension lugs and feed ramp. Now if someone were to design a shorty magnum off a case that can feed like the 458 socom--I think there would be a quantum leap in what you could get out of a AR15 in terms of performance of bullets from 308 on down. I know that it's already been done down to I think 358.

Just musing a bit.

[Road_Clam]

It all sounds good BUT will the 224V be a barrel burner ? That's where the 6.5CM is such an outstanding cartridge, you get flat, fast, mild felt recoil, AND good barrel life.

[stagpanther]

Good question--haven't heard/read anything one way or the other.

I've built a couple of AR creedmoors--I think the "soft recoil" compared to 308 is a bit exaggerated--in terms of measured ftlbs at maximum loads--maybe, but my experience they both muzzle lift and hit about the same in practical terms shooting through an AR. whatever.

[stagpanther]

Here's an interesting article on some valk statistics and comparisons. Since it's not through a gas gun I don't know what differences there might be--but the over-all analysis looks pretty good.

https://rifleshooter.com/2018/02/224...h-on-velocity/

[MarkCO]

6K is about what the test guns got to before they saw and accuracy fall off.

The cartridge produces too much gas volume to be properly handled by the DI system even with reduced port size, adjustable gas blocks, and/or heavier buffers.
Burning larger amounts of slower burning powders far exceeds the parameters of the original design.

That is pretty ignorant of the design of the AR platform. The reason it has so many calibers is exactly because the design allows for a huge variance of operational parameters. If you know what you are doing, the cycle can be set up perfectly for a specific load. This has been done for .17 calibers all the way up to large bore magnums.

Sure, the 224V is not a good choice for most. Mine fills a training/gas gun match role for less cost and weight than a large pattern AR and has ballistics very close to my match 6mm and 6.5mms. I doubt I ever hunt with it, better choices, and I won't take it to a match where the vast majority of shots are inside 600 either.

[stagpanther]

If you know what you are doing, the cycle can be set up perfectly for a specific load.

+1000

I call it "tuning the Stradivarius." I don't always get the best tune--but sometimes come pretty close.

[stagpanther]

I doubt I ever hunt with it, better choices

I may or may not hunt with it--but the ballistics of the 90 or 100 gr (just read federal has already come out with a 100 gr 224 bullet) at closer ranges looks pretty compelling. Certainly would use it in place of conventional 5.56.

[stagpanther]

Got a 6mmAR sitting right next to me.



I suspect that I'll be getting a 22-6.5G wildcat in the future.....Although with the length of the 6.8 case it would probably work just fine for my needs too.....I want light bullets going fast! My 6XC has the long stuff covered.

The Valkyrie was interesting at first but the more I thought about it the more I realized that it's niche is so small that it really is a one trick pony....especially with the fast twist barrels.

I raise your 6mmAR by 6mm Predator.

[jimbob86]

I suspect that I'll be getting a 22-6.5G wildcat in the future....

Your cat is chasing it's own tail. 6.5G Comes from the 220 Russian.

[jimbob86]

I call it "tuning the Stradivarius."

Tune a Stradivarius poorly, and the tone of the music is just not great. Tune a DI gun, or any gun, for that matter, poorly....... and you are beating the instrument.

[Ledslnger]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...is a one truck pony..." There's a lot of stuff sold these days like that. Mine's a .41 AE barrel for my Inglis HP. Saved by buying 500 cases when I bought the barrel.
"...extra 224 bullets..." No .223 rifle?

The CM is worthless imo. It does nothing the 6.5x55 can’t and it won’t be around in 100 years like the Swede. The Valkyrie is at least bringing something new to the table. The CM did bring more tactical manbunners to shooting.....I guess. More manpurses at the range too......

[jimbob86]

The CM is worthless imo. It does nothing the 6.5x55 can’t

Worthless to you, maybe.... It's pretty hard to find an AR-10 in 6.5Can'tBeFoundEasilyOutsideSweden ...... The Creedmores' brass is also easily formed from 308WIN brass, which is nearly everywhere and much cheaper than that of any Xmm Mauser.....

....

The CM did bring more tactical manbunners to shooting.....I guess. More manpurses at the range too......

You seem pretty grumpy ...... what's the matter? Your pet cartridge becoming obsolete? Upstaged by all these young whippersnappers? Face it: it's a dinosaur that was only ever really popular with the "I hunt (or claim to, anyway) with a milsurp rifle that was bought for $12 a few generations ago" and the C&R collector "crowd", who don't actually constitute so much as a small gathering anymore, and shoot even less ......

.... one does not need to have particular hairstyle (I keep a flat-top, m'self) to appreciate that a new, modern rifle made on modern machinery chambered in a cartridge that is cheaper to shoot is superior in many ways to an ancient military surplus rifle of unknown history and possibly questionable metallurgy .... which, if Bubba has not "sporterized" it, and it's in decent shape, probably costs more than a MSR chambered in the Creedmore..... true, there are new/LNIB Commercial 6.5Swedes out there ..... but a quick look on Gunbroker tells me that most are over $1,000 ..... one can go to PSA right now and get a free floated 20" Stainless barreled 6.5CM upper assembly for $549.99 and a lower for $199.99, free shipping, no sales tax..... and it will likely shoot rings around any 6.5x55 rifle that may cost twice as much, all else being equal.

and it won’t be around in 100 years like the Swede.

Maybe ..... maybe not ..... the market will decide that..... I'll put my money on the CM outliving the Swede, though.

OTH, I often think that these gun forums will die of "Curmudgeon Poisoning" ..... with new young members being run off by ancient, grumpy, knew it alls before they have a chance to learn anything ......

[stagpanther]

The topic is the valk and I see little to no relationship between it and the creedmoor. I suggest those that hate the creedmoor (or any other cartridge, for that matter) simply open their own "I hate this cartridge cause website" rather than troll and poach other's topics.

'nuff said.

[jimbob86]

I see little to no relationship between it and the creedmoor.

IIRC, both were touted as flatter shooting, lower recoil cartridges for practical shooting competitions .......