Loading for 223 REM process check

[44 AMP]

Max coal spec may not always be a safety starting seating depth. Depending on bullet profile and barrel, the ogive could have jammed into the riflings.

In theory this could happen, but, I've never seen, or heard of this happening in over a half century of reloading and reading reloading information literature.

If there is an example of that, where SAAMI specs are adhered to, and a point on the bullet ogive contacts the rifling, I'd love to see it. You should be able to seat a full wadcutter bullet (where the bullet is constant width base to tip) to the SAAMI spec for max overall cartridge loaded length, and chamber it without the bullet touching the rifling. IF it does touch the rifling, something is out of spec, most likely the barrel.

Its easy enough to check, and requires no special tools or gauges, just the reloading equipment you already have, and a caliper.

Make a dummy round loaded to SAMMI max spec length. Chamber the round, then extract it, and measure the length. Also look at the bullet for any mark or burnishing indicating it contacted the rifling. I expect there will be no mark and no change in the overall length.

Another test is to make a dummy with the neck sized just enough to hold your bullet in place friction tight, but only tight enough so the bullet can be moved with slight pressure.

Seat the bullet in the case mouth as far out as possible, This will be longer than the SAAMI specs. Chamber the round, noting the feel, and where you hit resistance. Fully chamber the round, then extract it. There will be a mark on the bullet where it was jammed into the rifling. (If the bullet stays stuck in the rifling, clear it and repeat the test seating the bullet slightly deeper, repeating as needed until the bullet no longer sticks in the rifling, but is just pushed back into the case)

Once you get to that point, measure the test round for overall length and compare that with the SAAMI spec. I'm confident you will find it is longer than the SAAMI spec.

SAAMI specs are set to ensure safe operation in all firearms of each caliber, but they are voluntary industry guidelines and manufacturers are under no legal obligation to adhere to them, nearly all do, by choice.

I would be quite surprised to find a combination where the bullet touches the lands AND does not exceed SAAMI over all length specs. It is possible your rifle and bullet could be the exception, but I think it is highly unlikely. Proceed with caution and do some testing, until you are certain.

The hammer type inertial bullet pullers operate on bullet mass and its inertia. They are least efficient with small light bullets (such as .22s) but they will do the job if used correctly.

Personally, I've never had much good luck with the press mounted collet type pullers, and, I prefer the hammer type.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

In theory this could happen, but, I've never seen, or heard of this happening in over a half century of reloading and reading reloading information literature.



If there is an example of that, where SAAMI specs are adhered to, and a point on the bullet ogive contacts the rifling, I'd love to see it. You should be able to seat a full wadcutter bullet (where the bullet is constant width base to tip) to the SAAMI spec for max overall cartridge loaded length, and chamber it without the bullet touching the rifling. IF it does touch the rifling, something is out of spec, most likely the barrel.



Its easy enough to check, and requires no special tools or gauges, just the reloading equipment you already have, and a caliper.



Make a dummy round loaded to SAMMI max spec length. Chamber the round, then extract it, and measure the length. Also look at the bullet for any mark or burnishing indicating it contacted the rifling. I expect there will be no mark and no change in the overall length.



Another test is to make a dummy with the neck sized just enough to hold your bullet in place friction tight, but only tight enough so the bullet can be moved with slight pressure.



Seat the bullet in the case mouth as far out as possible, This will be longer than the SAAMI specs. Chamber the round, noting the feel, and where you hit resistance. Fully chamber the round, then extract it. There will be a mark on the bullet where it was jammed into the rifling. (If the bullet stays stuck in the rifling, clear it and repeat the test seating the bullet slightly deeper, repeating as needed until the bullet no longer sticks in the rifling, but is just pushed back into the case)



Once you get to that point, measure the test round for overall length and compare that with the SAAMI spec. I'm confident you will find it is longer than the SAAMI spec.



SAAMI specs are set to ensure safe operation in all firearms of each caliber, but they are voluntary industry guidelines and manufacturers are under no legal obligation to adhere to them, nearly all do, by choice.



I would be quite surprised to find a combination where the bullet touches the lands AND does not exceed SAAMI over all length specs. It is possible your rifle and bullet could be the exception, but I think it is highly unlikely. Proceed with caution and do some testing, until you are certain.



The hammer type inertial bullet pullers operate on bullet mass and its inertia. They are least efficient with small light bullets (such as .22s) but they will do the job if used correctly.



Personally, I've never had much good luck with the press mounted collet type pullers, and, I prefer the hammer type.

I encountered that twice just during the past 2 months.

One is a EB Shawn barrel in 6mm ARC with Speer 85gr spbt bullet. First seated to Max coal and kept having misfires and occasionally hang fires. Remeasured bullet jump to realize.

2nd example is my current project in 7mm SAUM. Bullet is 139gr Hornady spbt. Measured bullet jump and had to seat shorter than max coal to avoid contact.

I actually have seen it before, mostly on unfired new rifles. But it is indeed not common, so I have been assuming max coal safe. Assuming no more. It only takes 10 minutes to measure.

Round nose bullets have higher tendency.

-TL

PS. I measure not only to verify none zero bullet jump, but to determine the amount of. I start with seating long and gradually shorter till no contact. Normal chambering and extraction has too much error, as the bullet could be pulled back out a bit during extraction. I use cleaning rod to push the bullet out instead.

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[Bentnail]

Since I have switched to the Hornady ONE shot, no issues on sizing, swage, and trimming. Thank you for all that chimed in on that.

[Nathan]

Not to discourage you, 1moa is not trivial, despite all the casual talks on internet.

I don’t know how to say this well. There is a lot of good information online.The best is probably from manufacturer websites. Good calm discussion forums like this one are good too. Last is probably Facebook, X and other post and run places.

Also, don’t be afraid to cal Hodgdon, Hornady, Berger to name a few. I’ve had great advice and conversations with their techs…..especially when struggling with a detail item.

Please understand that while I claim to be honest with myself and folks on here, I’m human too. Years ago, I used to pull flyers in groups and stuff like that. I just heard a guy call his buddy a liar at the range when he saw the guy pulling shots out of his string showing a lower sd on his group!

You will read a lot of folks talking 1/4 MOA all day if they do their part…..total BS. Those rifles that do that are a creation unto their own. Benchrest competitors do all kinds of crazy stuff to get close to this!

Last, be aware of the promotion of buying more. Don’t buy more unless you have a problem or opportunity to improve that you identify driving your purchase. Don’t feel bad that you have $50 dies and the next guy has $250 dies. I’ve had $350 dies. I couldn’t identify how they made better ammo than base Forster dies. So….

I made 10 yesterday morning and took them to range. Out of 10, 7 fired fine and the 3 misfired. Primers didnt ignite at all, but the dimple from the pin is spot on center. SO who knows on them, I need to pick up a bullet puller as my kinetic puller is not doing the job for Rifle cartridge that it does for pistol.

The primer misfire is generally FL sizing too much…rare, or not seating primers deep enough….more common. I find a bench primer has the leverage needed to seat these well. I use a CPS, but I think you would feel one of the priming die setups more affordable and good enough. I’ve used this one from RCBS, but everybody makes similar.

RCBS ram priming

FL Sizing How To
FL Sizing Die Setup

As you have discovered, inertía bullet pullers work well with straightwall cartridges, but less well with light bullets and high neck tension. I use the Hornady Collet puller and find the bullets reusable.

Hornady Cam Lock Bullet Puller

My FPS avg was 2496.8 based on 69gr bullet with 24.0 gr of CFE223 powder. So I will load another 10ish and up my powder by .5 tenths and check again.

You might look up Hornady method or OCW as a shortcut to load development. Some people bad mouth them, but they are engineers sharing what they do…

Hornady Podcast Methods The method is either in #50 or #52.