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October 16, 2017, 11:55 AM | #26 |
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Ah, yes. The .257 Roberts is another good light recoiling option.
I've always preferred the higher BC's of the 6.5 and 7 mm's. Really not that important in most hunting applications I suppose unless one hunts the plains and such though. A .30-30 Win would likely do all you'd need as well since most game is taken within 100 yds. |
October 16, 2017, 12:58 PM | #27 |
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I have a RAR 7mm-08 with a muzzle brake that takes anything from fox to elk.
I'd probably be just as satisfied with a 6.5CM. |
October 18, 2017, 08:24 PM | #28 |
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I've not shot a 6.5, but I sure am interested. So I can't comment on it's recoil.
But I do know that the .243 is a great cartridge for whitetail deer. Recoil is very low, so low that she'll be able to keep the animal within in the scope view immediately after the shot. And a 100 grain .243 is great for deer. The core-lokt will put them down hard with excellent expansion and complete penetration. And the other, more modern bullets will do just as well! Go with the low recoil round and she'll shoot better and enjoy it a lot. JMHO. |
October 18, 2017, 08:43 PM | #29 |
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I like both, but for a more versatile gun the 6.5MM beats the 243. I would also point out a fact to consider:
the 6.5CM is a shell designed to fit in the NATO length detachable magazine and still be able to use very long "VLD" bullet without problems in seating length. So if you are not going to buy a gun with a NATO length mag, the 260 Remington or the 6.5 Swede both beat the 6.5 Grendel when loaded to the same pressures and fired from the same barrel length. No disrespect in intended to the CM, but if you buy a rifle with a magazine long enough to take the longer shell, you'll be as well or better off with the longer shell. |
October 18, 2017, 10:18 PM | #30 |
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Since recoil is a primary consideration i would choose 243. If you reload there are a few other good choices. Tons of 243 ammo on the shelves. Nothing wrong with "bigger" but not needed for whitetails. We all get caught up in the "new and improved" and im no exception but that does not make the old cartrige that has been killing deer for 50 years any less lethal.
I started with a 7mm mag and put it in the closet when i got my 270. I love my 270 but bought a 243 when my daughter started hunting. Now my 270 barely gets dusted off. Between my daughter and I we have shot dozens of deer and only remember one going more than 20 yards (that one was due to poor shot placement and not the bullet). I see no advantage to going with a larger caliber unless the bullet is going to gut it and skin it on the way through. Dont think the deer care either. Keeping in mind the limitation of the bullet we only shoot clean broadside shot, we do not try to quarter a deer through the shoulders or shots we cannot get both lungs. I am a meat hunter and have no problems letting one walk away. Have her shoot what she is comfortable with and stay within the limitations. Shot placement trumps caliber. My buddy uses a 223 bolt action and has no issues. Shots are less than 150 yards. We also share the same philosophy that we do not shoot unless it is a clean broadside shot. Larger caliber can be advantageous if you take less than optimal shots and need deep penitration to quarter through to reach vitals. Also benificial if you are a long range hunter and want less wind drift but this is more specialized and best left to experienced shooters. |
October 19, 2017, 06:20 PM | #31 | |
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I always try to wait until the deers front leg is stepped forward too. Thats just a habit held over from bow hunting more than anything. |
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October 23, 2017, 10:12 AM | #32 |
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I think this is one of those either or questions where the correct answer is yes.
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November 1, 2017, 04:34 PM | #33 |
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Well, we all know I love the Roberts.....but the OP didnt include it, so I'll say....
6 of one, half dozen of the other. No recoil sensitive beginner will be able to exploit the advantages of tje Creedmoor. ...but the .257 IS mighty fine, too.
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November 8, 2017, 02:02 PM | #34 |
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Wife is recoil sensitive.
Two things to get right that are more important than cartridge: 1. Stock Fit Especially LOP. My wife likes 12.5". A nice recoil pad included in that 12.5" is also indicated. 2. PAST Recoil Pad At least from the bench. Get the thicker, wider one. Made a world of difference. ============== Cartridges Both Federal and Remington offer reduced recoil .308Win loadings. Rem has a 125gr spire point good for longer range shots, Fed has a 150 or 170gr RNSP for thump up close. Hornady has one, too, IIRC. Your current rifle in .308Win, with a smaller stock, and her wearing a PAST pad, shooting reduced recoil loads may be a solution. I own a .243Win and my wife has taken game with it. It works, but you really want a premium bullet if you value penetration. 100gr Nosler loaded by Federal is good hog medicine. Hornady 90 or 95gr SST is more accurate and I would trust versus less stout critters. [The Ruger American Compact rifle is a good inexpensive rifle...if you buy a Boyd's stock to replace the awful factory stock. Paid $325 for one.] Had I a do-over, I would prefer she had a 6.5 Swede (or 6.5Creed or .260Rem) as a do-all rifle from bitty critters up to Elk. But, really, lots of low-recoiling deer cartridges will do the job: .243 Win 6mm Rem .260 Rem 6.5 Creed 6.5 Grendel 7mm Mauser .257 roberts 7mm-08 Good lcuk.
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November 8, 2017, 08:15 PM | #35 |
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One of our rifles is a Tikka in 260. It shoots 100 gr Nosler BTs and 120 gr Nosler BTs into the same tight group. I reload for it, and when the wife hunts, she uses the 100 gr loads, which are very light in recoil. The 120’s have a noticeable increase in recoil, but much less than my 270.
Both bullets have been deadly on deer and hogs, though I will say that I think the 120’s do better on the larger hogs. I see no reason to shoot the heavier bullets like the 130’s and 140’s, preferring a MV at or near 3000 fps, which I can get with the lighter bullets (can’t quite get the 120’s there, but close enough) |
November 8, 2017, 10:41 PM | #36 |
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Of the two choices I'd go with .243. Either cartridge will do the job but the .243 is eaier to get and to find rifles chambered in.
However you might just invest in a better recoil pad for the .308 and or one of the other ways to reduce recoil. |
November 9, 2017, 10:48 AM | #37 |
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Remington Model 7__ 243cal. Have her practice shoot some 80 gr anything that's accurate. 80 gr will drop any animal the 100 gr can and do it faster and with less recoil. Little model 7 is a light weight_ short in oal length_ skinny barreled creature that any slight in frame person would like. Buy a wood stocked one. In that manor its stock can be shortened to fit her shoulder to a T >by a compediant gunsmith.<
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December 26, 2017, 04:40 PM | #38 |
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Or you could get something in the middle
I would think either would work but a compromise would be the 250 Savage more caliber than the 243 win and less recoil than both but still very able to take game out past 300 yards.Ammo while not readily available everywhere is still available.I'm debating this same question for my wife who says she wants to go with me next year.
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December 26, 2017, 04:54 PM | #39 |
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When it comes to the 6.5 the 260, and the 7mm-08, ballistically they are very, very close. The 6.5 has bullets with better BC but at longer distances my vote goes to the 7mm-08. If you are going to use your rifle for hunting only I would for go the 6.5 creedmore and choose a 7mm-08. Recoil is about the same between a 243 and a 308. If you reload you can load your 7mm-08 for varmint with light bullets or heavy for deer with a 140 grain bullet to heavier for elk and can drop one at 300 yards. Just my 2 cents. The craze is the 6.5 but the smart choice is the 7mm-08
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December 26, 2017, 05:01 PM | #40 |
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Sticking my nose back in again:
It seems the key points are there--------- #1 The rifle has to be good for a small woman. So it can't kick much and I'd assume it can't be too heavy #2 It has to be a proven performer on White Tail Deer. So the counter questions are these: (A) Are you dedicated to a bolt action? (B) Will the rifle ever be used for anything larger then deer? If it will never be used for anything bigger that deer you might look hard at an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. The AR15 kicks less than any other rifle I know of for the power it generated with the 2 cartridges I mentioned. The 6.5 Gren. is about like a 6.5 Jap in power but shoots a bit lighter bullet. The 6.8 SPC is about like the original 257 Roberts in power shooting a 115 grain bullet instead of a 117 grain bullet like the Roberts, but shooting it about 100 FPS faster if the barrel length is the same. Another gun to look at is the Browning BLR in 260 Remington or 243 Winchester. In the light weight version it's truly a delight to carry and quite accurate in most examples If the budget allows but if you can't go over 500 you are far more limited. At $500 and less your choices are much skinnier. One to perhaps look at (if you reload your own ammo) is a Savage Axis with a fast twist barrel in 223. Shoot only Bonded, Partition bullets and/or expanding solids for deer. And there are a few places in the USA today you can buy an AR with a 1-9 twist for about $500 Last edited by Wyosmith; December 26, 2017 at 05:11 PM. |
December 26, 2017, 07:44 PM | #41 |
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As Troy said, shot placement trumps caliber. A well placed shot from a 243 with Barnes Vortx and its dead deer.
Double her up on hearing protection. That may also help some. Use plugs and muffs. A model 7 in 243 is a sweet shooter. |
December 27, 2017, 02:44 AM | #42 |
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Folks, its been over 2 months since OP posed the question, and they have not returned for comment or fire adjustment.
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December 27, 2017, 11:56 AM | #43 |
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I've never shot one but have an idea one of the best cartridges, no one chamber's for anymore. 250/3000. I saw the 6.5 Grindal brought up and few post back the 257 Robert's. Well there's not a lot of them left around and may be that ammo is hard to come by for a non handloader. Yep, think I'd consider the 250/3000, and then I'd get one of the small, 260, 6.5 CM, 6.5 cartridges. Had a 6.5x55 put together for the ex and she gave up shooting a 6mm to shoot it!
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December 27, 2017, 12:49 PM | #44 | |
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Quote:
Her favorite rifle so far, CZ 527 in 7.62x39. That's what she'll be hunting with next year, barring some unforeseen change.
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December 27, 2017, 02:24 PM | #45 |
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You don't mention anything about the hunting other than it is deer. You said that the biggest concern is getting your girlfriend a smaller, lighter rifle that recoils less than a .308 semiauto.
There is a whole lot of real estate covered by that, anything from 7mm-08 down to .223, all capable of killing deer sized game. Maybe even a twenty gauge with slugs. I see no reason to move up to 6.5 from .243 unless you're shooting at longer ranges and require better ballistics. By going with a creedmoor you will be using a bullet that is thirty grains heavier than a 100 grain .243 and maybe 100 fps quicker. At this time, actually, the trend of .243 is going towards sub 100 grain bullets that retain all weight, either bonded, monolithic copper, or others that ensure full penetration without adding extra bullet weight. A creedmoor is obviously a superior round ballistically, by the figures, but is it actually better? the winchester is an excellent low recoil round, and that is the thing you are looking for. you should consider keeping the .243 with 90 grain bullet at 3,200 fps. compare the nosler trophy grade e tip, a solid copper tipped bullet perfect for deer or larger game.. Creeedmoor: 120 grain bullet, 2,850 fps, 2,174 Foot Pounds ME .243 winchester: 90 grain bullet, 3,200 fps, 2,046 Foot Pounds ME Big differences. Given the parameters of average sized deer at less than 300 yards with a recoil shy hunter, I have no choice but to to with the .243 winchester. It will have marginally lower recoil, I believe. It will have nearly identical energy on target, it will have nearly identical trajectories, and the effects of the identical bullet loadings will be almost identical as well.
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December 27, 2017, 03:02 PM | #46 |
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I'd skip the 243,forego the 6.5 and jump in somewhere in the 257 field.......25-06 fan myself.
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December 27, 2017, 03:37 PM | #47 |
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That round doesn't even come close to being the low recoil round that he is looking for. Why do you think that will work?
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December 29, 2017, 02:00 PM | #48 |
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If I have to choose between a 243 Win-sized cartridge or a 6.5G, I"d probably choose the Grendel if all I wanted to do was shoot deer within 200-300 yards.
A 6.5G in bolt action would be a light-carrying and light-recoiling rifle.
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December 29, 2017, 02:04 PM | #49 |
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Since this is for a woman I would go with the .243. If it was a young growing boy I would suggest the 6.5CM.
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December 29, 2017, 02:25 PM | #50 | |
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Stock fit/sight height matters. Weight of the gun matters (heavy mitigates recoil). Shooter's form matters. The shooter's mindset matters ..... if they believe the gun is going to smack them, their form will go to crap and the gun will smack them. I had a recoil sensitive hunter that was afraid of anything bigger than an AR ...... she had taken a small button buck 2 years ago with an AR loaded with Barnes TSX's .... small deer, broadside at 130 yards ..... perfect heart/lung shot and then last year hit several larger deer that we could not find .... I built a PSA PA-10 in .308WIN ..... she's 13, tall and skinny ....weighs under 100 lbs. ..... there's pics in another thread here .... https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=591992&page=2 .... but what is discussed over there would be pertinent here, I think. There are PA-10 uppers in 6.5CM and I've seen barrels in 7-08 ..... there are other AR10 platforms that offer .243WIN, as well. Last edited by jimbob86; December 30, 2017 at 12:33 AM. |
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