The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 10, 2005, 05:51 PM   #1
Marcus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 1998
Posts: 1,156
Questions on trap gun fit...

I`m new to trap and I`m really enjoying it. I have shotguns but they`re of the "social variety" so I`ve been shooting a friend`s Browning BPS. I guess I`m not doing too awful bad, I`m averaging 16-18 out of 25 and I`ve only been doing this a couple weeks. I just picked up a cheap used Mossy 500 28" VR ported,dual beads just for trap. Frankly a Mossberg wasn`t my first choice but it was CHEAP and the two I`ve had before worked well enough so what the heck... Anyway after reading all about fit and how important it is I`m still very unclear on what I should be looking (feeling?) for. My buddy`s BPS is a really nice gun but it beats the hell out of my cheek bone. I`d like to avoid that with my own gun and optomize the fit with stock spacers,adj. butt plate etc. if necessary. I`m just looking for theory and what I should be looking for right now. Tomorrow is my first night out with the "new" Mossy. Marcus
Marcus is offline  
Old July 10, 2005, 06:29 PM   #2
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Do this in a room with NO AMMO in it.

First, ensure your Mossberg is empty.

Check it again.

Now, focus on a point on the wall, like where the walls and ceiling meet.

Without moving your head, close your eyes and mount your weapon.

Open your eyes and see if you're pointing at the place you focussed on.

Repeat several times. If you do not have to move the barrel to pinpoint the spot, your shotgun fits, huzzah. More than likely, you will have to putz with it.

Use shims between the stock and receiver to move things around. Place a small shim, like folded aluminum foil, low to raise the POA, on the left to move things to the right, etc.

Check at the patterning board.

HTH....
Dave McC is offline  
Old July 10, 2005, 09:24 PM   #3
K80Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 1998
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,639
Well to do TRAP right you need an adjustable buttplate and cheekpiece. Then get another gun and.....


OK get a 4'X4' piece of cardboard, paint a clay sized circle in the middle, or use an orange stick on target paster of the same size. Prop the cardboard up and measure 16 yards.

Take five shells. Load one at a time. Full choke and 7.5 shot. From the 16 yd line bring the gun up to your shoulder from a low mount and shoot as soon as the gun comes into position. Do not hesitate and move your face around trying to get a sight picture (Crawling the stock). Shoot as soon as the butt is in the shoulder pocket and your cheek is on the wood. Take five shots as above.

Then determine where the center of the pattern is.If you have a consistent mount the five shots should be in the same place, or reasonably in the same place. Every inch off of center needs a correction of 1/4 inch to center the pattern.

if you are 1' to the left of center, a 1/4 inch shim added to the left side of the stock will move the stock in the right direction. Or have the stock bent.

PS ...a pattern board makes this job easier. Water and Wings has one but it is not maintained at all. And some dufus shot slugs at it.
__________________
I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!
K80Geoff is offline  
Old July 10, 2005, 11:14 PM   #4
Marcus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 1998
Posts: 1,156
Thanks Dave and Geoff! I`m going to try and get to the range early and pattern it first so I can see where it`s shooting. Marcus
Marcus is offline  
Old July 10, 2005, 11:23 PM   #5
kymasabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2005
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,083
I had an adjustable buttplate on my 870 Wingmaster that I used for years for Trap. Worked great. Took a little trial and error to get it just right but when it was in, it was perfect. I'd drop the gun in my shoulder, tilt my head, my cheak would drop right on the stock and I'd be looking right down the sights, the beads would line up perfectly.
__________________
God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.
kymasabe is offline  
Old July 11, 2005, 08:28 AM   #6
HunterTRW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2004
Location: The Lower Forty of Hill Country
Posts: 177
The problem with trying to shoot Trap with field guns is that most of them tend to shoot relatively flat, and the clay target is rising sharply. As a result the shooter must cover the target with the gun's muzzle, blocking it out at just the moment he/she shoots. This seldom results in high scores over the long run.

As the other posters have suggested, you must modify your field gun to place the shot charge above the point of hold if you wish to achieve consistently high scores. Depending upon the shooter, this could range from less than three to more than 18 inches at 40 yards.

Modifications can take several forms: 1. Raising the barrel rib. 2. Bending the gun's barrel slightly upward (a chancey proposition, although I know some shooters who score quite well--97% or better--with guns whose barrels are bent). 3. Raising the comb of the stock.

Of the three, the latter is by far the easiest (and least expensive) to accomplish, and can be done using layers of cardboard taped to the top of the comb. The net effect of raising the comb is to raise your master-eye (think of it as your gun's rear sight), thus the gun shoots higher. Some time and shot-shells spent at the patterning board and the range will tell just how high your particular gun needs to shoot. As for any snickers or comments about "cardboard and tape" from your fellow shooters, those should be quieted when the round is over and the scores are announced.

Good luck, and good shooting!
__________________
"If we're all thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." General George S. Patton, Jr.
HunterTRW is offline  
Old July 11, 2005, 10:40 PM   #7
Marcus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 1998
Posts: 1,156
Well I didn`t have time to pattern it today but I did shoot 5 rounds of Trap with it. First round 14/25 (insert lame excuse here). 2nd I tried stacking the dual beads like an 8 and putting my cheek in a differet location,18/25. 3rd I experimented a bit with where I aimed at the clays,17/25. 4th I stuck to one style all the way through,19/25 (my personal best!). Last round I tried mounting the butt pad lower on my shoulder. I had been mounting it so that just the toe touched which felt good cheek weld wise but the tip of the butt pad had made a tender spot on my shoulder. My swing was way off too. 11/25 I shoulda quit while I was ahead. Oh BTW this gun beats my cheek bone up pretty bad too. What does that generally indicate? Next step, pattern the gun. After that maybe a Morgan adj. butt plate? A few of the guys at the club suggested that it would be a good idea for me since I tend to shoot best with just the toe of the stock on my shoulder. What do you fellas think? Marcus
Marcus is offline  
Old July 12, 2005, 06:20 AM   #8
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
A Morgan may help. Having ALL the pad in contact will help greatly in comfort levels. But do not change all that yet.

Do as Hunter suggests. Without making the stock bulkier from side to side, add some cardboard or similar material to the top of the comb until you have some solid point of contact with your cheek when your eye is in perfect alignment.

Shoot some trap rounds and let the hits tell you if further mods are needed. Use your tightest choke to make it easier to read your breaks.

Reading breaks is simple. If a big piece flies off a hit target, it was hit on the other side. If it flies to the right, your shot hit it on the left, etc. Adjust your homemade fit job until all your breaks are smoked or itty bitty pieces.

And, if you had time to shoot, you had time to pattern....
Dave McC is offline  
Old July 12, 2005, 07:24 AM   #9
K80Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 1998
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,639
To raise the comb try using some of that stick on moleskin sold by Dr Scholls. This stuff is used to protect blisters on feet and is soft. It comes in sheets.
__________________
I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!
K80Geoff is offline  
Old July 12, 2005, 09:52 AM   #10
HunterTRW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2004
Location: The Lower Forty of Hill Country
Posts: 177
Marcus:

You said that, "...I tend to shoot best with just the toe of the stock on my shoulder..." This statement leads me to believe that you may have solved your own problem. Why? Because when you shoot with just the toe of the stock on your shoulder what you are doing, in effect, is to raise the height of your stock's comb. The result is a higher-shooting gun, and a better overall score at Trap.

As for the brusing of your cheek, your gun may have too much drop at the heel. This can be illustrated as follows: Take your right index finger (assuming that you are right-handed) and lay it level beneath your right cheek-bone. You should feel a fairly broad area of contact between your cheek and finger. Now, keeping your finger straight, begin to angle it downward from the rear. Do you feel the increased pressure on your cheek-bone? This is because you've reduced the area of contact between the fleshy part of your cheek and your finger, and concentrated it on the area just below your cheek-bone where the skin is thin. If this is the case, then you can compensate for this excess heel-drop when you build up the comb using cardboard or moleskin--imagine a wedge-shaped shim (as viewed from the side) with the point toward the action.

As for looking at your gun's bead-sights, don't. Look at the target! As the late Gene Hill once said in his Shotgunner's Notebook: "...a vast number of gunners sight down the barrel instead of looking at the bird. Let me assure you, you can't do both and be a good wingshot. You must ignore the gun and look, and look hard, at the target--and wherever your eyes go, the gun barrel will go all by itself! Doesn't that sound easy? It is and it works."

Please forgive the multiple suggestions, but unfortunately shotgunning problems tend to have multiple causes. I hope that these may work for you and help you to become a better shot.

Good luck, and good shooting!
__________________
"If we're all thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." General George S. Patton, Jr.
HunterTRW is offline  
Old May 26, 2010, 06:38 AM   #11
djh860
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2010
Posts: 1
Too late to get this restarted

I just purchased a Winchester 101 pigeon grade trap gun online.( $750) I have never shot trap. It does not have a big raised rib but it has a very high comb.

When I look down the barrel I see the whole length of the barrel and both beads. On my field gun when I look down the barrel I see no barrel and both beads blend into one. Clearly if I put my front bead on a target my trap gun will be aiming above the target. Is this how a trap gun is supposed to be set up?
djh860 is offline  
Old May 27, 2010, 10:31 PM   #12
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
In a word, yes. Trap targets are always shot rising. A pattern that impacts above the line of vision works best. Some custom guns put ALL the shot over the bead.

I'm not that extreme. 65% or so does fine for me.
Dave McC is offline  
Old May 28, 2010, 02:47 PM   #13
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,198
Boy this is an old link ......

You'll have to take that gun to a pattern board and see if it fits / but it sounds like its off quite a bit for you - if you're seeing that much rib....

Like Dave, I like my Trap guns set at about 60% / 40% above and below the point of impact ....maybe 70%/30% at the most....but for most of us, our Trap specific guns have adjustable comb inserts so we can move the point of impact a little - and float that Trap target above our barrels a little.

Its not that you can't shoot a flat shooting gun at trap with a 50%/50% pattern ...but you have to cover the bird and still follow thru ...and that means losing sight of the bird which is not your best option - if you want to get serious about Trap ( but for shooting casually, almost any gun will work just fine ).
BigJimP is offline  
Old May 31, 2010, 11:09 AM   #14
ole gunner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 14, 2010
Posts: 5
shooting trap

Lots of good advice here. I would add one more exercise. Close your eyes and mount the gun to your shoulder where it feels comfortable. Now open your eyes and see what you are seeing. Chances are you will be looking at the back end of the receiver which means the comb is too lowand needs built up. This is why your cheek is getting beat up you are raising your head up to see.
ole gunner is offline  
Old May 31, 2010, 12:21 PM   #15
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,198
"Face slap" from a gun / or a sore cheek isn't just because you might be lifting your head .....

It can also be caused by the angle of the comb / and it might be pushing the meat of your face back into your cheek bone ...so when the gun recoils it drives back into your cheek bone ...vs under it. If it drives into your cheek bone - it hurts ...

Adjustable parallel combs / or a stick on comb pad may help you a lot ...don't just "endure" it ...you need to resolve it by figuring out what is really causing it. I have the same issue on most angled comb guns / so I shoot parallel comb guns exclusively ( like the Browning Citroi XS Skeet models). The Browning Citori 525 / 625 series are great looking guns / but they beat the daylights out of me ...and its because of their angled comb. An adj comb on an angled comb - does not change the angle - it just raises the comb - which makes no sense to me ( it doesn't solve my problem ).
BigJimP is offline  
Old June 1, 2010, 12:02 AM   #16
ole gunner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 14, 2010
Posts: 5
Gun fit

Well Jim I dont beleive I said that was the only cause,just the most likely. This is based on 40 years of shooting and watching folks start out with a field gun to shoot trap. And if your gun fits ,your cheek will be tight on the comb and if you have it shouldered everything will come back together with the recoil. You have had guns that were ill fitting and didnt know it. You need not respond to this as I wont be on the forum,,but I know you wont be able to resist your that type.
ole gunner is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09523 seconds with 10 queries