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Old August 21, 2018, 07:27 PM   #51
Art Eatman
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One Battery of the 50th AAA Bn was at the Chosin Reservoir. The M-16s were a very effective weapon against massed infantry charges by the Chinese.

I was told that the deal was to back up to a firing point and then after ten or fifteen seconds of fire, move out before mortar shells came in. Rinse and repeat as long as the ammo held out.
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Old August 21, 2018, 08:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Eatman View Post
One Battery of the 50th AAA Bn was at the Chosin Reservoir. The M-16s were a very effective weapon against massed infantry charges by the Chinese.

I was told that the deal was to back up to a firing point and then after ten or fifteen seconds of fire, move out before mortar shells came in. Rinse and repeat as long as the ammo held out.
I’m pretty sure there weren’t any M-16s at Chosin.
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Old August 22, 2018, 06:16 AM   #53
Mike Irwin
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"I’m pretty sure there weren’t any M-16s at Chosin."

Yeah, there were.

The M16 halftrack, aka the Multiple Gun Motor Carriage, equipped with a quad .50 caliber Maxon mount.

The Marine Corps and Army both used the M16 extensively during the Korean War, including during the advance to, and retreat from, Chosin.

There were also numerous M19s motor gun carriages employed... two 40mm Bofors on an M24 light tank chassis.


Some REALLY nice pictures of the M16 on this page: http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/vie...n=1&num=210235

Captions are in Korean, unfortunately.
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Old August 22, 2018, 07:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Captions are in Korean, unfortunately.
Google translate will turn them into English.
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Old August 22, 2018, 09:08 PM   #55
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Funny you say that. I was shooting my 7mm Magnum from a bench rest one day, and a fellow club member has his 50BMG out that day. He asked if I wanted to try it, I said SURE! That is a HUGE gun! Laying prone, since I wasn't about to try and pick it up to shoot, I think he said it weighs 40 pounds, it was a pleasure to shoot. I took two shots, said thanks, then asked him if he wanted to shoot my gun. He said no thanks! I ain't hurting my shoulder with that damn 7mm Mag!
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Old August 22, 2018, 09:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by M4BGRINGO View Post
Funny you say that. I was shooting my 7mm Magnum from a bench rest one day, and a fellow club member has his 50BMG out that day. He asked if I wanted to try it, I said SURE! That is a HUGE gun! Laying prone, since I wasn't about to try and pick it up to shoot, I think he said it weighs 40 pounds, it was a pleasure to shoot. I took two shots, said thanks, then asked him if he wanted to shoot my gun. He said no thanks! I ain't hurting my shoulder with that damn 7mm Mag!
I have no problem shooting 30 rounds in 2 minutes out of my Barrett .50, with no pain.
On the other hand my BIL's 7mm Weatherby is one of the most painful rifles I've ever shot.

Yea, I'm with your .50 buddy.
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Old August 23, 2018, 05:10 AM   #57
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I have no problem shooting 30 rounds in 2 minutes out of my Barrett .50, with no pain.
On the other hand my BIL's 7mm Weatherby is one of the most painful rifles I've ever shot.
You just need find a way to make tha 7mm Weatherby weigh 40 lbs and then it'll be like shooting a .22 Hornet.

Well, not exactly, it'll still be deafeningly loud and expensive.
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Old August 23, 2018, 01:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXAZ
I have no problem shooting 30 rounds in 2 minutes out of my Barrett .50, with no pain.
On the other hand my BIL's 7mm Weatherby is one of the most painful rifles I've ever shot.

Yea, I'm with your .50 buddy.
This is amazing. I'd better stop reading this thread before I end up buying a .50 BMG!
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Old September 6, 2018, 11:18 PM   #59
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TXAZ wrote:
I’m pretty sure there weren’t any M-16s at Chosin.
They were present.

My grandfather was at Chosin. My one-time girlfriend's father was also at Chosin. Interestingly, they ended up telling me the same war story about an M-16 with Quad-50s, but from the different perspectives of an officer and an enlisted man.

They also told me a story about a 155mm self-propelled gun that I had initially dismissed as unbelievable when my grandfather told it to me, but when I got confirmation years later, my jaw dropped - but that's a subject for another post.
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Old September 6, 2018, 11:27 PM   #60
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As to the OP's question about what a 50 caliber BMG projectile will do when it hits a person, the only reasonable and consistent answer that we can reasonably offer is, "It depends".

If the bullet passes entirely through soft tissue with no perturbation (i.e. external forces causing the bullet to yaw) then the result could reasonably be expected to be a half-inch diameter hole. Of course, when we use 30 caliber hollow points to hunt deer, we hope the bullet will expand to about a half-inch in diameter and thus deliver a "clean kill". So, between tissue damage, shock and blood loss, we should probably expect the same thing from the 50 BMG.

On the other hand, if the bullet passes through differing tissue types so that it starts to yaw as it enters the body and then it strikes a bone, shattering it, but with the momentum imparted by the bullet propelling the broken ends of the bone, there is no reason to believe that the result would be anything other than what would appear to be an "explosive" exit from the body. The damage is caused by the broken pieces of bone, not the bullet, but without a detailed forensic analysis there would be no way to tell.
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Old September 6, 2018, 11:34 PM   #61
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Quote:
Art Eatman wrote:
I was told that the deal was to back up to a firing point and then after ten or fifteen seconds of fire, move out before mortar shells came in.
I was told the same thing by my grandfather.

In fact, it was during one of these "shoot and scoot" maneuvers (after Chosin) that he and his aides failed to follow the Quad-50s out of the area fast enough and he was injured by a mortar fragment.
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Old September 6, 2018, 11:45 PM   #62
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gshayd asked:
So did Gunny Hathcock commit a war crime?
Definitely not.

The 50 BMG bullet conforms to all international requirements, including the Hague Convention. It's use against an individual does not violate any international norms.

The U.S. Army (and I'm sure the Marines follow suit, but I can't speak to that), on humanitarian grounds, makes it a matter of policy to not intentionally use the 50 BMG against individual combatants, where possible. The Army doesn't expect a 50 BMG gunner to lay down his life in the face of the enemy simply because it is the only weapon he has.

That policy, by the way, has apparently changed in recent years since the Army now makes available 50 BMG caliber rifles to snipers for long-distance shots.

Bottom line is that violation of Army policy may be a crime under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), but it is not a "war crime" under the applicable treaties (which in this case I think would be limited to the Hague Convention).
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Old September 7, 2018, 12:14 AM   #63
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1972 I was in the Littlerock, AR, VA hosp for a broken ankle from parachuting on Camp Robertson. They brought in a guy in from VN that had been hit twice at close range with a .50. One took out his right kidney, the other took out his left kidney and various other internals, I don't remember. He was 'home' waiting for a kidney transplant.

During that time they also brought in an older guy that had his legs amputated at the hip. WW II vet. LOTs of visitors and family. At night after they left I found out he lived on a farm and chipped a bone in his hip while deer hunting.

He would drive his tractor out to near his 'tree' and 'walked' on his hands and stump in the dark and waited for a deer. His stump wore a rubber 'skid plate' something like the conveyer belt in the grocery store check out. Said he got a deer every year. Then back to the tractor, drive over to the deer, winch it out on an A frame on the tractor so it wouldn't drag, and take it home. His sons would finish dressing the deer in the barn. Really an amazing guy to hear him talk about how he and his sons modified / created tools that alowed him to live a mostly normal life. Just talking to him made my ankle injury seem shameful.

Contrast that to the people that won't work to take care of themselves, and I don't mean Vets.
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Old September 7, 2018, 08:41 AM   #64
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"Soldier mutilates hand by using a .50 BMG round as a hammer"

WARNING...VERY GRAPHIC!!!

https://imgur.com/AQXdTsS

https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/20...-caliber-round
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Old September 7, 2018, 09:32 AM   #65
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The U.S. Army (and I'm sure the Marines follow suit, but I can't speak to that), on humanitarian grounds, makes it a matter of policy to not intentionally use the 50 BMG against individual combatants, where possible. The Army doesn't expect a 50 BMG gunner to lay down his life in the face of the enemy simply because it is the only weapon he has.
To my knowledge, the US military has never opposed using .50BMG against personnel for humanitarian reasons. Killing someone is not pretty business, and as of 12 years ago (when I got out) it still wasn't "churched up." Rampant use of .50BMG was discouraged because those rounds needed to be reserved for more appropriate targets when there was plenty of smalls arms and medium machine gun fire to shoot at enemy in the open. It is a fire discipline decision, not humanitarian.

And, as has been previously crushed, the Geneva or Hague conventions did not criminalize the use of .50BMG against personnel.

Quote:
We were told the same thing when calling in WP. Helmets and pistol belts in the open, fire for effect.
I'm sure there was a fuel truck present somewhere! Had to be, how do you think they put fuel in the truck that got the water buffalo there!
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Old September 8, 2018, 07:46 AM   #66
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I'll repeat comments made by a Korean Conflict veteran regarding the 50 BMG effect on "
human wave" assaults. He said they tried to lay the M-2 where there was plenty of range across level ground. When the Chinese came across "en masse" the 50 would cut down up to a dozen with a 3-4 round burst as the bullets penetrated multiple bodies. He said it was like covey shooting quail until the Chinese realized what was happening and began to spread out.
I doubt our troops checked or really cared what damage was done as long as those hit stopped right there.
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Old September 8, 2018, 10:26 PM   #67
Drm50
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I was in RVn on m42 Dusters duel 40mm Bofors and Quad 50s mounted on gun
trucks. Must have been out to lunch when restrictions on what you could shoot
were handed out.
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Old September 8, 2018, 10:37 PM   #68
Don Fischer
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I thin regardless the size of the metplate, a 750gr bullet is gonna put out a huge amount of energy and in that instant I suspect energy will kill! Do a pretty ugly job to boot!
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Old September 9, 2018, 12:47 AM   #69
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briandg: My first tour in Viet Nam in 1968 & 1969. I was assigned as a Mech Inf Platoon Leader to a Mechanized Infantry Company with the 1st Div. We had at least one 50 cal BMG on each one of our 113 Armored Personnel Carriers. We worked some very bad areas along the Cambodian Border and we seen a lot of large combat. And to see first hand, up close and personal just what a 50 BMG will do to a VC or NVA is just truly unbelievable and just utterly breathtaking to say the least. The sight and smell usually made a FNG very sick several times before they got used to it. These are the unforgettable sights and smells that make you dream about them 50+ years later, as an old man.
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