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Old April 18, 2007, 10:49 PM   #26
Trip20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
If there is no detering the situation, then you are left with keeping the gun away from the man during the struggle.
Good point. So have you had any weapon retention training? Did they cover this in your CCW class?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
What would YOU do if someone approached you picking a fight...
I asked first. What would you do? What did you learn in your CCW classes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny Hansen
Actually staring is a sign of aggression.
Well, it depends on how you do it
You described how you did it in your first post. Staring down a hot-headed nut job is a direct challenge to his bravado and will most likely result in more aggression.
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Old April 18, 2007, 10:50 PM   #27
JohnKSa
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Quote:
I'm not talking about pulling the gun when we are driving, but after he has FORCED me off the road (and I mean Forced, as in swerving into me or downright hit my car) and is out of his truck coming at me on foot.
Unless he has wrecked your vehicle, once he's out of his vehicle, why would you stay there? Just drive off--it will give the police more time to locate you from your 911 call.

If he's wrecked your vehicle and you can't leave then that's another situation entirely.

So do this:

1. Dial 911.
2. Don't stop.
3. If you are forced to stop, leave as soon as you can.

Quote:
Obviously avoid the situation by any means necessary. If there is no detering the situation, then you are left with keeping the gun away from the man during the struggle.
How did you get into a struggle with someone who's outside your vehicle? Don't get out! Drive away!
Quote:
Let me ask another question to all of you. What would YOU do if someone approached you picking a fight and nothing, no 911, no talking, no trying to defuse the situation is going to stop this man from trying to kick your....hind end?
Gotta say that this looks like you're just trying to "work" the original, fairly reasonable, scenario into a narrowly defined, highly hypothetical situation that will allow you to pull your gun.
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Old April 18, 2007, 11:07 PM   #28
Doug.38PR
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Trip20,
your questions have already been asked and answered on this or other threads. No need to go through it again. Read what I said a little closer. I ask you again, what would YOU do?



Quote:
Gotta say that this looks like you're just trying to "work" the original, fairly reasonable, scenario into a narrowly defined, highly hypothetical situation that will allow you to pull your gun.
I'm sorry if that's what it looks like, because it's not. LOOK!!! All of you! ALL OF YOU KEEP ANTICIPATING THAT THE EASIEST SOLUTION WILL BE PRESENT: Drive away or say "I'm sorry" or call 911 and let him see you and voila problem solved.

Most of the time one of those three things will do it. Those are valid points. And somewhat obvious to anybody with good sense and/or experience with people. BUT, you do have to consider the worst case scenario. I can think of a million reasons why you may not be able to drive away, JohnKSa, you just named one. I can think of a million reasons you might not have the chance to dial 911, I can think of a million reasons why saying "I'm sorry" might not work, I can think of a million reasons why you may have to get out of the car and confront the guy (most notably what if you family or a loved one is in the car and you need to be in between the nut and them).
Face the worst case scenario: This guy is ready to try to take you (an armed individual) on and you are there alone with him (maybe with your family in the car) and you car can't go anywhere. (how do you think police run cars off the road, we've all seen it on those police chase scenes on the news often enough...it can be done) How would YOU, the reader, handle this WITHOUT pulling your gun?
As said, I would handle the situation as it came. Avoid the problem if I could via any or all of the means everyone has been repeating, but, offhand, if it came to a knockdown dragout struggle, I'd work to keep my gun side away from him (if gun is at 4'oclock, then lean into him the other direction) If gun is revealed, keep one hand on the grip so he doesn't get that chance while using the other arm as a shield to keep him back. But, as people have said in this forum and others, the fight will go as it wants to, not how I plan it. Handle it as it comes.

EDIT: It occurs to me that since everyone seems to be avoiding this question that they don't have any idea themselves. AND THAT"S OKAY! (seriously!) I DON'T KNOW, that's why I'm asking. If you don't know, just say so! Speculate, it's supposed to be a healthy discussion of TACTICS & TRAINING.
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Old April 18, 2007, 11:43 PM   #29
JohnKSa
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It's not that people don't know what to do, it's that you keep narrowing the scenario and ruling out the common sense approaches without giving any plausible details to explain why the reasonable and most common solutions aren't going to succeed.
Quote:
I can think of a million reasons why you may not be able to drive away,... I can think of a million reasons you might not have the chance to dial 911, I can think of a million reasons why saying "I'm sorry" might not work, I can think of a million reasons why you may have to get out of the car and confront the guy
You know what Doug? I have absolutely NO DOUBT that you can think of a million reasons why practically anything suggested here won't work.

But that doesn't get anyone anywhere practical. You asked for a solution to a real world scenario taken a step further. You got several. Then you "tailored" your real world scenario into a situation where you HAD to stop and HAD to get out of the vehicle and HAD to confront an irate unarmed person. To paraphrase someone: "LOOK!!! You! YOU KEEP ANTICIPATING THAT NONE OF THE REASONABLE COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS WILL BE PRESENT!!!"

The problem is, that I can think of a million ways to avoid those things. Things, which, I might add are quite improbable--especially when all strung together the way you've strung them together.

But you clearly don't want to hear any of that...

If you think that you might need to confront a highly irate unarmed person then you should look into non-lethal options like pepper spray, etc. And there are many different trainers to help you learn when and how to use these options.

If you think that you might need to deal with a dynamic road rage scenario from within your vehicle, there are training classes that deal with this kind of driving.

If you think that you might need to learn about weapons retention, there are many different trainers who can accomodate you.
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Old April 19, 2007, 12:06 AM   #30
skeeter1
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Interesting question, and I'm sure there's no simple answer. For the most part, I tend to stay in neighborhoods near where I live, I know where the local police depts. are, and have a fairly fast car. I'd make a beeline to one of them with the horn blaring. Any BG who would be foolish enough to follow me into a PD would have to be incredibly stupid. If I have the time to phone ahead on the cell, so much the better. The CCW is stricktly the last resort.
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Old April 19, 2007, 09:13 AM   #31
03Shadowbob
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Staring at someone is asking to escalate a situation. I agree with whoever wrote that if possible, you should've rolled down your window and apologized sincerely, not just a wave.
As far as someone chasing you down, you know they are pissed and staring at them will escalate it. Chris Rock has a famous line "they just dial 9-1 and wait for you to do something stupid". I'd suggest looking over and apologizing again. If that doesn't work and he tries to force you off the road, hit the send key on the phone. If he hits you then IMO it's on and I would in all honesty meet force with force. If you are doing 70 and he is hitting you doing 70 (which is hard to believe happening) hit your brakes quick and turn into his rear quarter panel.
Or you can avoid all this trouble and A) don't cut anyone off or B) make sure you have a much bigger vehicle than most others on the road and get a bumper sticker that reads "Keep honking, I am reloading"
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Old April 19, 2007, 09:45 AM   #32
Doug.38PR
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JohnKSa,
(I feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall at this point) it's not that the solutions presented here aren't worth discussing, they are, at this point I'm trying to narrow it down to if you must confront someone face to face or even physically. As everyone here agrees, most of the time such a thing is avoidable, but we must all realize that there there can be times (and it isn't confined to road ragers either) where we might need to confront an individual physically or at least challange them physically in life (while we happen to have a gun on our hip)
Let me try another approach, let's not confine what I'm asking to road rage, what if someone is bad mouthing or even hasseling your wife or girlfriend and you need to step in? Or, you see a bunch of other kids beating up your teenage son and you need to run over and break it up?

You're talking like a physical confrontation with an individual is far fetched and ridiculous of me to ask, well it's true we are not in grade school anymore and such a thing does not happen every week, but while physical confrontation is improbable it is not impossible.
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Old April 19, 2007, 09:58 AM   #33
Denny Hansen
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The original question was how do you handle a road rage incident. That question has been answered.
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