Would a reinvention of Glock equal failure?

[Onward Allusion]

It's a Glock. If it got re-worked from the ground up, the first thing people would ask is WHY? Why screw with something has has worked for decades? The Gen 5 is an evolution but most of it can be slapped together with aftermarket work, especially the biggest change - the barrel. If re-worked from scratch, it will take years for the market to accept the new & improved version not to mention any possible bugs. So, yeah - definitely a drop in sales. Example? G3 -vs- G4 when the 4 rolled out.

[Jim Watson]

From what I have read, the Gen 5 cannot be "slapped together with aftermarket work."
Very little is interchangeable with previous marks or aftermarket parts.
I am sure the aftermarket will catch up, but if you want to be the first one on your block with a Gen 5, it will be all Glock for a while at least.

I like the grip texture but other than that, I see no improvement over my Gen 1.

[TunnelRat]

I think what he meant was that the changes in the Gen 5, the better rifling in the barrel the lack of finger grooves, etc., can be accomplished by sending say a Gen 3 or Gen 4 to a custom shop. It wouldn't be a true Gen 5 but it would be a facsimile. And you're correct that aftermarket triggers and other parts will not work in the Gen 5.

[Pond, James Pond]

It's a Glock. If it got re-worked from the ground up, the first thing people would ask is WHY? Why screw with something has has worked for decades?

Because as consumers we are conditioned to want change and innovation and revolution in the things we buy. And it just seems that, although it clearly works very well and has a solid consumer base, Glock might appear to the casual observer, to have stagnated. They look no different, essentially.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that except that the market may see it as Glock sitting on its laurels in the future.

[Model12Win]

They need to print "GRIP ZONE" so you know where the grips are to avoid confusion in a dynamic tactical warfighter battlespace environment.

[reynolds357]

Does a 2017 F150 look like a Tmodel?

[TunnelRat]

Does a 2017 F150 look like a Tmodel?

Well Glock hasn't been in production for 100 years. But for that matter, are cars really that different? STill an internal combustion engine, four tires, steering wheel, etc. I'm not so obtuse that I don't recognize that modern cars have far more features and are much safer, but it's not like someone from 100 years ago wouldn't be able to turn on and drive a modern car and the reverse is true too with some instruction.

[James K]

"... literally every company I can think of off the top of my head makes a striker fired polymer pistol..."

After Glock, they do. Before, no.

Jim

[TunnelRat]

^ Well, yea. I'm pretty far in the camp of giving Glock credit.

[JDBerg]

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...+1_ameriglo_ns

A new Gen5 19M with AmeriGlo factory NS, if this is so awful then why is it already backordered? Ol' Gaston G is laughing and waltzing his way to the bank once again!

[amd6547]

I had a largely Glock day at the range yesterday, alternating between my G26 and G17, both gen3.
Both performed magnificently.
If that's stagnation, I'll take it.

[Pond, James Pond]

If that's stagnation, I'll take it.

That scenario wouldn't really fit the definition of stagnation....
Nothing in what I've said suggests that earlier models didn't go bang...

[amd6547]

They both did more than "just go bang". They were 100% reliable, and extremely accurate. Exactly what I expect from my pistols.

[Pond, James Pond]

They both did more than "just go bang". They were 100% reliable, and extremely accurate. Exactly what I expect from my pistols.

Great to know and I'm pleased for you. My Gen 3 experience was no different.

Still irrelevant to the point being discussed, though.

[amd6547]

Nonsense, it goes directly to the point. Not everybody needs or wants new and different when it comes to self defense weapons.
They aren't iphones.
Solid reliability, easy availability of cheap magazines and parts, as well as holsters...that is what "stagnation" brings.

[Pond, James Pond]

No. No. No.

Firstly, look no further than this forum to see how excited people get about new guns, new designs new companies and new products from old companies.

Secondly, the fact that your two Gen 3 continue to function has no bearing on whether or not the buying public will see Glock as the purveyor of near faultless design due to lack of necessary changes or whether they'll see it as a soon to be has-been that didn't move with the times and whose guns look no different now than they did 30 years ago.

Then notice that:

Solid reliability, easy availability of cheap magazines and parts,

Could be said of CZ yet they have lots of nice new guns coming out and have an increasing consumer base...

This discussion is not a dig at the Glock product nor a suggestion that it is a bad design, just a recognition that Glocks have changed only slightly in the grand scheme of things and to many onlookers, possibily not at all and whether or not are they therefore wrong to not refresh their product or not...

[TunnelRat]

Could be said of CZ yet they have lots of nice new guns coming out and have an increasing consumer base...

Might be different where you live, but where I live stateside CZ is no where near as available as Glock. In many cases I wish it was as I'm on wait lists for magazines and pistols at multiple locations.

And I do get the point you were making, I'm just pointing that there are regional differences at play when it comes to availability.

[Pond, James Pond]

I'm just pointing that there are regional differences at play when it comes to availability.

But they're market share is growing over there, correct? That is what I've been led to believe.

[TunnelRat]

It is, but it's slow. For instance the P10-c right now would sell like mad, but most dealers near me can't get one. One local store has 20 on special order (which means 20 individual customers asked for one) in addition to those on backorder. I don't doubt those people will wait, but my experience has been that in the states CZs tend to show up in batches periodically through the year, unlike the steady stream of some overseas manufacturers. Most stores were lucky if they got as many as 4 pistols in the first batch and these are stores that do pretty large volume. Again this is for me locally, but looking around online shows similar results.

For that matter I can't find mags at any of the large wholesalers I typically use. While it's common to have some shortages with new pistols while supply catches up with demand, this is worse than I have seen for the P320, APX, VP9, FN 509, etc.

To be honest I rarely see more than 3 new CZs in any of the stores near me. Compared to a company like Glock where even the smaller stores they have two entire shelves devoted solely to them. The supply of the two companies is just no where close. CZ's operation stateside is just frankly far smaller than their demand would warrant. I know George Harris, who helped SIG get set up stateside way back in the day, has been courted by them and he's gone over there a few times so I think they understand their situation, but remedying it isn't easy.

[Pond, James Pond]

Thanks for the overview.

I hope CZ get it sorted as it's a great brand but by the same token I hope they don't up production beyond their means at the cost of quality. That would kill the reputation they've built so far..

[ritepath]

Wouldn't matter to me, I don't buy glock stuff. Hopefully that won't ever change.

[Nathan]

Would it signify that Perfection wasn't perfect to begin with or would it be exciting to see how the same design in a different chassis would look, feel and shoot?

Would it come with different flavored KoolAid and rose colored glasses still?

[JDBerg]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat:

...For instance the P10-c right now would sell like mad, but most dealers near me can't get one...

The Cabela's near me had a new CZ P10-c that they pulled out of the back and I have to be honest, "IMHO" the takeup on that trigger was not as smooth as I was expecting, although it a new gun I'm sure I could live with it until I got enough dry & live firing done to smooth it out. I'm sure the CZ P-01 in the Gun Library (older, non-Omega trigger, but LNIB) was again "IMHO" the better piece, but they wouldn't come down some from the $579.00 price tag and the Cabela's flunky wouldn't check to see if the 2nd mag was in the box. But I'll keep trying!

[TunnelRat]

I'm not saying the P-10c is in any way penultimate, I just think with the hype right now they're missing out on sales due to lack of supply.

[JDBerg]

I've been reading how good the P-10c trigger is in some of the gun rags, and my own first impression was not quite up to that level. But there is no doubt I could live with it and I'm sure the trigger takeup would get smoother with use, and I've heard that the CZ Custom Shop and CGW are planning some great P-10c custom work. But to your point, Cabela's sold that gun anyway, as I would have expected. And I do think the Gen5 Glocks might steal some of the thunder from the CZ striker, since I'm not finding a 19M anywhere around here to look over.