Is this legal to make?

[shinwa98]

I'm sure some of you have seen the black pipe or "Noisy Cricket" video on YouTube. I live in Texas and want to make this, with a wooden stock and foregrip attached. But I'm not sure if its considered a zip-gun? Or if I can legally make this without having to get a license. Also, would adding some kind of spring loaded trigger mechanism that pull the barrel into the action pipe take the gun into a different firearm class? If I did make this, I would use it for mostly target shooting, some coyotes if they get to close to the house, and when the time comes, and some mule deer we have here on the property. I've seen some of the statements on homemade gun laws, but the overall answer still is shady.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/heguheqy.jpg

[Bill DeShivs]

Under federal law, it is legal to make a gun, as long as it meets the definition of a non- NFA item.
It is legal to make an NFA item if it is first registered with ATF, and the tax paid.

[Armed_Chicagoan]

Doesn't look like a gun you'll bag a coyote or mule deer with. Why not just buy a real gun, one in which you can hit something more than 10 feet away?

[Evan Thomas]

Shinwa, welcome to TFL.

Here's another wrinkle: if you're a minor, depending on what state you're in, there may be restrictions on whether, and under what conditions, you can possess a firearm, much less build one. The first thing you should do is search on Google to find out what the laws are in your state.

[Blindstitch]

Seems like one could just buy a beat up break action and cut the butt short and install a small pad. Then shorten the barrel if needed to 18 1/2 inches.

Probably look something like a mares leg shotgun or semi bull pup.

[shinwa98]

Originally Posted by Blindstitch

Seems like one could just buy a beat up break action and cut the butt short and install a small pad. Then shorten the barrel if needed to 18 1/2 inches.

Probably look something like a mares leg shotgun or semi bull pup.

Yes I suppose I could, I only want to make this as a fun, cheap, and easy project. I will look for some cheap used ones in my area.

[shinwa98]

Originally Posted by Armed_Chicagoan

Doesn't look like a gun you'll bag a coyote or mule deer with. Why not just buy a real gun, one in which you can hit something more than 10 feet away?

I wasn't planning on shooting more than 10 feet. This is more of a project. For seriouse hunting I will use a better gun.

[1-DAB]

guess that is one way to learn about the tensile properties of steel.

[Mike38]

I installed some stainless steel electrical conduit on a piece of equipment that was to be used in an extremely harsh chemical environment. That stuff is super hard. I wonder if it would make for a better barrel than black pipe? A whole lot more expensive for sure, but I would think a whole lot safer.

Regardless, I’d have to be desperate to resort to making my own shotgun. I like my fingers and eyes, and even though I’m not very good looking, I’d like to keep my face just the way it is.

[Hal]

Why not get a kit from Dixie and make something worthwhile?


FWIW - I can tell you first hand what happens to "pipe" guns.

They work ok right up until the point that they blow up in your face.
The biggest problem there being - - you don't exactly know when that's going to happen.

My friend Mark wasn't too lucky in that regard. His went off while he was "loading" it up.
He escaped with just some nasty burns on his arms and some impressive scar tissue from those burns.

[shinwa98]

Originally Posted by Hal

Why not get a kit from Dixie and make something worthwhile?


FWIW - I can tell you first hand what happens to "pipe" guns.

They work ok right up until the point that they blow up in your face.
The biggest problem there being - - you don't exactly know when that's going to happen.

My friend Mark wasn't too lucky in that regard. His went off while he was "loading" it up.
He escaped with just some nasty burns on his arms and some impressive scar tissue from those burns.

Well that story opens ones eyes a little more. I will check out Dixie, have any recommendations?

[Strafer Gott]

Get one of those Traditions pistol kits you see for $45 bucks or so. It's a real gun and gets you into the infernal brotherhood of muzzle loading. And if you focus, you can actually make it pretty.

[Scimmia]

Originally Posted by Strafer Gott

Get one of those Traditions pistol kits you see for $45 bucks or so.

Where are you seeing them for $45? Their website doesn't list any for under $200.

[kilimanjaro]

You might want to check with the Game Department, see if shooting any animal with it would be legal. The firearm may be legal, but using it on game may not be.

[Hal]

I will check out Dixie, have any recommendations?

Philadelphia Derringer - is what I made for my "first" gun,
I'd recommend something more useable thaough.

The Hawken rifle kit is also a good choice, but, more money.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=2545

Get one of those Traditions pistol kits you see for $45 bucks or so.

LOL!
Yeah my friend, those $45. kits haven't been $45. since a lobster dinner @ Red Lobster was $9.99 .

Even the kits @ Dixie have gotten pretty high since I last checked.

[Strafer Gott]

I'dcheck Track of the Wolf, or even Sportsmans' Warehouse. Dixie has many more models, but I consider their non-sale items a bit spendy.

[shinwa98]

Thanks everyone for the imput! I will defiantly be checking out all the great suggestions!

[barnbwt]

The picture linked doesn't look even close to the minimum barrel or overall lengths for rifles or shotguns in the US. Gotta be long enough if it's to be shoulder fired, and under .50" bore if a pistol. I assume the ATF would measure the gun fully telescoped, too (that barrel does not look close to 18" for sure)

I still have to wonder why anyone would make one of these; a scaled up JACO western made from 1/4" plate or something would be an infinitely safer and overall better weapon. The sliding bang-stick thing is redneck garbage that's sure to launch the barrel when, not if, your home made firing pin eventually pierces a primer cup. But in Texas, I seem to recall a spring was necessary in the Zip gun designation (but it's also as likely a poorly-defined statute up to an officer's discretion whether to bust you or not).

TCB

[markj]

Get a spud gun. Them pipe guns or zip guns as we called them are very unsafe.

[johnwilliamson062]

My friend Mark wasn't too lucky in that regard. His went off while he was "loading" it up.

Sounds a bit more complicated than the pipe failed to me.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by shinwa98

I live in Texas and want to make this, with a wooden stock and foregrip attached. But I'm not sure if its considered a zip-gun?

Since none of the prior posts seem to have addressed this question directly, let me give it a shot.

The TX Penal Code defines a "zip gun" thus (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by TX Penal Code

CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

...[subsections (1) thru (15) omitted]...

(16) "Zip gun" means a device or combination of devices that was not originally a firearm and is adapted to expel a projectile through a smooth-bore or rifled-bore barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance.

From my non-legally-educated perspective, the phrase "...combination of devices that was not originally a firearm..." strikes me as VERY broad; it could be construed to encompass virtually any device that (a) shoots stuff using chemical force and (b) consists of materials that aren't originally firearms-related.

It's likely that a more concise definition exists in case law, but I'm not an attorney, and I don't know how to research this.

I think you need to ask a qualified attorney to be sure. However, I'm going to go out on a limb- I think it's likely that the "Noisy Cricket" could be considered a "zip gun" under TX law.

If you continue reading the Penal Code, it has this to say about lawful possession of so-called "zip guns":

Originally Posted by TX Penal Code

Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) knuckles;
(6) armor-piercing ammunition;
(7) a chemical dispensing device;
(8) a zip gun; or
(9) a tire deflation device.

(b) [omitted, basically your run-of-the-mill LE/military "official duties" exemption]
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the National Firearms Act, as amended.
(d) [omitted, not relevant to zip guns]
(e) An offense under Subsection (a)(1), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), or (8) is a felony of the third degree. An offense under Subsection (a)(9) is a state jail felony. An offense under Subsection (a)(5) is a Class A misdemeanor.

My interpretation:

• Possession of a properly NFA-registered zip gun is lawful in TX.
• Possession of a zip gun that's NOT properly NFA-registered is a felony, seemingly regardless of whether the device has characteristics that would otherwise normally require NFA registration.

Originally Posted by barnbwt

The picture linked doesn't look even close to the minimum barrel or overall lengths for rifles or shotguns in the US.

Even if a pipe shotgun is long enough that it's not technically a SBS or AOW, Penal Code 46.05(c) seems to state that it needs to be NFA-registered anyway, or it's not lawful to possess in TX.

Let me reiterate: Consult with an attorney before you build this doohickey.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor.