327 Federal with AA#9 Question

Wrangler5 · October 22, 2016, 12:26 AM

I've been entranced by the 32 Long and then the 32 H&R Magnum for about a year, and have loaded and shot a lot of rounds through a Colt and several S&Ws in those calibers. Just got a Ruger Single Seven to explore the 327 Federal Magnum round, and saw something odd (to me) when I started to make up my first loads for it.

I have some Sierra 90g JHP (Sierra calls 'em JHC, whatever that is) bullets that I decided to start with, using virgin Starline brass. I have Accurate powders including #7 and #9, and two PDF versions of Accurate load data, one from 2003 and one from 2016. (My printed edition of this data, Book 2, is from 2000 and has no data on the 327 round.) The 2003 edition shows a starting load for this bullet as 13.5g of AA#9, with a max load of 15.0g. (The 2016 edition shows no data for any Sierra bullet for any powder in this caliber.)

It looks to me like 13.5g of AA#9 FILLS a 327 Federal case up to where the base of the 90g bullet would be. And 15.0g would end up as a compressed charge. I've been reloading for ~25 years, and have NEVER seen a reasonable charge of smokeless powder that came close to filling a "blackpowder" case for a revolver caliber - this is based on loading 32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 38/357, 44 Mag and 45 Colt rounds. (Trail Boss is the obvious exception - I use it a lot in 38 Special cases, where I do fill 'em up.)

I've looked through the Share Your 327 Loads thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=327+federal ) and do find several 13+ grain loads of #9 there, including some for 100g and heavier bullets. But just seeing a case full of smokeless powder in a revolver case makes me nervous.

Am I just not experienced enough to have been in this territory before? I've spent my reloading life working to make sure that I never got a double charge of smokeless in one of those capacious old cases (one reason I like Trail Boss in my 38s). I've had AA#9 on my shelf for years, and know I've loaded 44 Magnum with it, and probably 357 Mag, but do NOT recall seeing anything close to full cases with those calibers.

I'll admit I chickened out and loaded those 90g Sierra rounds with #7, where the 9.0g - 10.0g charge weights filled over half the case, but never came close to taking up all the available space.

So I'm wondering - am I just getting overly cautious in my old(er) age?

SHR970 · October 23, 2016, 05:11 PM

I don't have a 327..but have used lots of AA#9 in 357. It is a forgiving powder. Even noew that is is made in the US it is still a forgiving powder. It gives nothing up to W296 / H110...in some applications it gives up some velocity.. in others it sits on top.

If it runs compressed in 327 so what. Work up your load and find the sweet spot. For the 90 gr. Sierra I would expect the best load overall to be the AA#7 (based on my work ups with 32 H&R) but you might find your best with AA#9 in your gun.

RKG · October 23, 2016, 08:53 PM

I, too, became intrigued with the .327 Fed. Mag. cartridge, and so a year or so ago snatched one of the Lipsey's Single Seven Rugers, with a 4-5/8" barrel.

For cast slugs, I settled on the 115 grain Penn Bullets SWC, sort of a .32-20 slug. Ultimately, I settled on a load of 5.0 grains of Unique, for a mean MV of 1175 fps, SD of between 2.5 and 6 fps (different strings), and Coefficient of Variablility of between 0.25% and 0.5% (ditto). With no signs of pressure issues, I could have gone further, but my rule limits plain based cast slugs at 1200 fps.

For jacketed slugs, I settled on the 100 grain Hornady XTP. My plan was to experiment with both H110 and 2400, which should have been ideal propellants for this cartridge. For the first tiime ever, I found H110 less than stellar: at 13.5 grains, mean MV was just over 1300 fps, with an SD of 22 fps and a CoVar of 1.72%. I was beginning to get flattened primers, but was short of what I clocked with Federal factory 100 grain JHPs (mean about 1450 fps, SD about 12.5 fps and CoVar 0.87%). I elected not to push H110 any further.

So, I said, lets try 2400. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any 2400 for sale, either then or since; so much that I'm beginning to speculate that it is being retired. Prompted by a magazine article, I did get my hands on some A-9, which gave excellent results:

Code:

Charge      Mean      SD         CoVar
11.0           1334      37.26     2.79%
11.5           1357      56.31     4.15%
12.0           1385      53.04     3.83%
12.5           1405      21.90     1.56%
13.0           1506      19.35     1.29%

Plainly, A-9 prefers higher charges, and while I had some flattening of primers (less than with the H110 load of 13.5 grains), 13.0 was below published loads from reputable sources and I could have gone higher. However, the 100 grain XTP was designed for the .327 at about 1400 fps, so I elected to conclude that I had found my load.

From memory, the 13.0 grain charge of A-9 did leave the case pretty full, but it was not a compressed charge. The A-9 loads were superbly accurate: less than 1" at 28 yards on a cold and blustery day from a revolver with a typical Ruger trigger (i.e., adequate but not great). Muzzle blast was a good deal less than the H110 loads (at lower MV).

I've stopped looking for 2400.

Notes and Disclaimers:

Reported velocities are 15 foot instrument, from a Chrony. OAT at the time was about 40F. Brass was Starline; primers were CCI Small Pistol (not magnum). These loads can be considered safe in my revolver; anyone else should start much lower and find what works in any other firearm.

For anyone interested in loading for .327 Fed. Mag., I highly recommend Brian Pearce's artcle in Handloader magazine, No. 294 at p. 28.

Wrangler5 · October 24, 2016, 12:52 AM

Thanks for the feedback. The 13.5g load was the starting point for AA#9 for this bullet. It may not have been a compressed load (I didn't seat any bullets over it) but it looked like it was going to be just about at the base of the 90g Sierra bullet. I'm pretty sure the maximum 15.0g load would have been somewhat compressed.

I just don't think I've ever loaded a case to the brim with a smokeless powder (except perhaps a hot 9mm Luger load) - certainly not a (doubly) stretched case from what started as a blackpowder round. Hence my question.

I'll probably get out to try my #7 loads tomorrow, and will see how they go. I'm not necessarily looking for the fastest thing out there, just something that can well surpass the 32 H&R loads I've worked up, should I ever think the need was there. I expect I'll shoot mostly H&R stuff through the Ruger.

BTW, RKG, my experience with most of the 32 loads I've worked up is that they all get more accurate the faster they go. The smallest groups I've shot have been with the Buffalo Bore 32 H&R +P with a 100g JHP bullet that's a good 20% faster than any other 100g load I've bought or made - little bitty groups right on top of the front sight at 7 yards. So I won't be surprised if that continues to be the case with the 327. I'm excited to find out.

October 22, 2016, 12:26 AM	#1
Wrangler5 Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 326	327 Federal with AA#9 Question I've been entranced by the 32 Long and then the 32 H&R Magnum for about a year, and have loaded and shot a lot of rounds through a Colt and several S&Ws in those calibers. Just got a Ruger Single Seven to explore the 327 Federal Magnum round, and saw something odd (to me) when I started to make up my first loads for it. I have some Sierra 90g JHP (Sierra calls 'em JHC, whatever that is) bullets that I decided to start with, using virgin Starline brass. I have Accurate powders including #7 and #9, and two PDF versions of Accurate load data, one from 2003 and one from 2016. (My printed edition of this data, Book 2, is from 2000 and has no data on the 327 round.) The 2003 edition shows a starting load for this bullet as 13.5g of AA#9, with a max load of 15.0g. (The 2016 edition shows no data for any Sierra bullet for any powder in this caliber.) It looks to me like 13.5g of AA#9 FILLS a 327 Federal case up to where the base of the 90g bullet would be. And 15.0g would end up as a compressed charge. I've been reloading for ~25 years, and have NEVER seen a reasonable charge of smokeless powder that came close to filling a "blackpowder" case for a revolver caliber - this is based on loading 32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 38/357, 44 Mag and 45 Colt rounds. (Trail Boss is the obvious exception - I use it a lot in 38 Special cases, where I do fill 'em up.) I've looked through the Share Your 327 Loads thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=327+federal ) and do find several 13+ grain loads of #9 there, including some for 100g and heavier bullets. But just seeing a case full of smokeless powder in a revolver case makes me nervous. Am I just not experienced enough to have been in this territory before? I've spent my reloading life working to make sure that I never got a double charge of smokeless in one of those capacious old cases (one reason I like Trail Boss in my 38s). I've had AA#9 on my shelf for years, and know I've loaded 44 Magnum with it, and probably 357 Mag, but do NOT recall seeing anything close to full cases with those calibers. I'll admit I chickened out and loaded those 90g Sierra rounds with #7, where the 9.0g - 10.0g charge weights filled over half the case, but never came close to taking up all the available space. So I'm wondering - am I just getting overly cautious in my old(er) age?

October 23, 2016, 08:53 PM	#3
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	I, too, became intrigued with the .327 Fed. Mag. cartridge, and so a year or so ago snatched one of the Lipsey's Single Seven Rugers, with a 4-5/8" barrel. For cast slugs, I settled on the 115 grain Penn Bullets SWC, sort of a .32-20 slug. Ultimately, I settled on a load of 5.0 grains of Unique, for a mean MV of 1175 fps, SD of between 2.5 and 6 fps (different strings), and Coefficient of Variablility of between 0.25% and 0.5% (ditto). With no signs of pressure issues, I could have gone further, but my rule limits plain based cast slugs at 1200 fps. For jacketed slugs, I settled on the 100 grain Hornady XTP. My plan was to experiment with both H110 and 2400, which should have been ideal propellants for this cartridge. For the first tiime ever, I found H110 less than stellar: at 13.5 grains, mean MV was just over 1300 fps, with an SD of 22 fps and a CoVar of 1.72%. I was beginning to get flattened primers, but was short of what I clocked with Federal factory 100 grain JHPs (mean about 1450 fps, SD about 12.5 fps and CoVar 0.87%). I elected not to push H110 any further. So, I said, lets try 2400. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any 2400 for sale, either then or since; so much that I'm beginning to speculate that it is being retired. Prompted by a magazine article, I did get my hands on some A-9, which gave excellent results: Code: Charge Mean SD CoVar 11.0 1334 37.26 2.79% 11.5 1357 56.31 4.15% 12.0 1385 53.04 3.83% 12.5 1405 21.90 1.56% 13.0 1506 19.35 1.29% Plainly, A-9 prefers higher charges, and while I had some flattening of primers (less than with the H110 load of 13.5 grains), 13.0 was below published loads from reputable sources and I could have gone higher. However, the 100 grain XTP was designed for the .327 at about 1400 fps, so I elected to conclude that I had found my load. From memory, the 13.0 grain charge of A-9 did leave the case pretty full, but it was not a compressed charge. The A-9 loads were superbly accurate: less than 1" at 28 yards on a cold and blustery day from a revolver with a typical Ruger trigger (i.e., adequate but not great). Muzzle blast was a good deal less than the H110 loads (at lower MV). I've stopped looking for 2400. Notes and Disclaimers: Reported velocities are 15 foot instrument, from a Chrony. OAT at the time was about 40F. Brass was Starline; primers were CCI Small Pistol (not magnum). These loads can be considered safe in my revolver; anyone else should start much lower and find what works in any other firearm. For anyone interested in loading for .327 Fed. Mag., I highly recommend Brian Pearce's artcle in Handloader magazine, No. 294 at p. 28.

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October 23, 2016, 05:11 PM	#2
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	I don't have a 327..but have used lots of AA#9 in 357. It is a forgiving powder. Even noew that is is made in the US it is still a forgiving powder. It gives nothing up to W296 / H110...in some applications it gives up some velocity.. in others it sits on top. If it runs compressed in 327 so what. Work up your load and find the sweet spot. For the 90 gr. Sierra I would expect the best load overall to be the AA#7 (based on my work ups with 32 H&R) but you might find your best with AA#9 in your gun.

October 24, 2016, 12:52 AM	#4
Wrangler5 Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 326	Thanks for the feedback. The 13.5g load was the starting point for AA#9 for this bullet. It may not have been a compressed load (I didn't seat any bullets over it) but it looked like it was going to be just about at the base of the 90g Sierra bullet. I'm pretty sure the maximum 15.0g load would have been somewhat compressed. I just don't think I've ever loaded a case to the brim with a smokeless powder (except perhaps a hot 9mm Luger load) - certainly not a (doubly) stretched case from what started as a blackpowder round. Hence my question. I'll probably get out to try my #7 loads tomorrow, and will see how they go. I'm not necessarily looking for the fastest thing out there, just something that can well surpass the 32 H&R loads I've worked up, should I ever think the need was there. I expect I'll shoot mostly H&R stuff through the Ruger. BTW, RKG, my experience with most of the 32 loads I've worked up is that they all get more accurate the faster they go. The smallest groups I've shot have been with the Buffalo Bore 32 H&R +P with a 100g JHP bullet that's a good 20% faster than any other 100g load I've bought or made - little bitty groups right on top of the front sight at 7 yards. So I won't be surprised if that continues to be the case with the 327. I'm excited to find out.