Purchasing from another person

ninosdemente · March 1, 2018, 05:03 PM

What are the right steps needed to purchasing a firearm from another person? Apart from making sure the serial number is not altered in any way shape or form.

I haven't bought firearms from another person yet always at a store. But there is a person who purchases self storage rooms at auctions who has had some luck in obtaining some firearms a few times. Some very nice. Would like to get one eventually if possible. But I am curios how would I go about seeing if they are clean. He buys in Illinois and I'm in Indiana. If it that really matters.

In The Ten Ring · March 1, 2018, 05:46 PM

Federal law requires both buyer and seller to live in the same state. Indiana probably has nothing more on the books than that but you could ask at a gun store.

You should look at this driver's license or photo ID at point of sale and I'd have him sign a bill of sale. There are office stores that sale notebooks that print through to a carbon copy page so both of you has a copy. Meet in a public place, during the day. Parking lots are fine in my experience but be discrete.

Around here, most people come to the seller's house and the seller advertised in the local trading paper.

A private person cannot do a background check, even a C&R holder cannot. If you want to "see if the gun is clean" you will have to go through an FFL and pay for it.

*If you suspect the gun came from IL, I wouldn't buy it. IL has some crazy laws (leaving home with gun but not FOID card is a felony?

) so I wouldn't risk it. Go to an FFL.

Mike38 · March 1, 2018, 05:46 PM

Here in Illinois, the "rules" are explained fairly clearly on the Illinois State Police web site. Maybe the same in Indiana?

Also in Illinois, on the ISP site, you type in the buyers FOID number, and the server instantly tells you if the sale is approved. Print out the approval form, do the 3 day wait, make the transfer. I like it.

Lohman446 · March 1, 2018, 05:47 PM

A gun purchased at a storage room auction was probably not properly transferred at some point. You can't accidentally or by chance purchase a gun.

In The Ten Ring · March 1, 2018, 05:57 PM

A gun purchased at a storage room auction was probably not properly transferred at some point. You can't accidentally or by chance purchase a gun.

I would think "forfeited property is forfeited property" and I don't see that being a problem unless due to state law. In this case though, probably best of the forum member goes through an FFL. If the buyer offers to pay the transfer fees, the only seller that would balk might be worried about a paper trail.

DaleA · March 1, 2018, 06:50 PM

Quote:

A gun purchased at a storage room auction was probably not properly transferred at some point.

Maybe. Maybe even probably although we sure can't say for certain.

Quote:

You can't accidentally or by chance purchase a gun.

No offense Lohman, but this one has me scratching my head though because it appears to be what actually happened for the guy that bought the storage locker not knowing what was in it.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 1, 2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninosdemente

He buys in Illinois and I'm in Indiana. If it that really matters.

Where he buys doesn't matter. That's his problem. What's of more interest to you, especially if he's selling as an individual rather than as an FFL, is where he lives. And whether you are looking to purchase a long gun, or a handgun.

FITASC · March 1, 2018, 08:19 PM

Here in FL, I hand you cash, you hand me gun, and we go our separate ways, no Bill of Sale, no copying each other's DL, or anything else. Check your laws in YOUR state.

**Frank Ettin** · March 1, 2018, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

Here in FL, I hand you cash, you hand me gun, and we go our separate ways, no Bill of Sale, no copying each other's DL, or anything else. Check your laws in YOUR state.

What a preposterous comment. If you had bothered to read the OP you would have seen that he wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninosdemente

... He buys in Illinois and I'm in Indiana.

So --

The OP is a resident of Indiana, so what you do in Florida is irrelevant.
The OP's statement at least suggests that the seller might be a resident of a different State. And if so, of course, federal law will require that the transfer go through an FFL.

In The Ten Ring · March 1, 2018, 09:35 PM

Why would I do a bill of sale?

Simple. If the gun is ever linked to a crime I want something in writing I can fall back on. Although I would much prefer the pre-1968 laws, I do my part to be sure the buyer isn't a criminal of some sort. Anyone not willing to show ID, allow ID info to be copied down, and sign a bill of sale, is suspect in their intentions.

raimius · March 2, 2018, 12:26 AM

At the federal level, you need to be residents of the same state, and the seller cannot know/reasonably suspect you are a prohibited person, and you must be adults, of course.

Many people take down ID information so they can refer authorities to the next owner, should the gun be reported stolen or used in a crime at a later date. Some others want to see a CCW or some other evidence that the buyer isn't a prohibited person. That said, those are just techniques to prove a chain of custody or make the seller feel more confident.

State laws may vary!

**44 AMP** · March 2, 2018, 12:29 AM

Quote:

A private person cannot do a background check, even a C&R holder cannot. If you want to "see if the gun is clean" you will have to go through an FFL and pay for it.

Just to be clear, a background check is a check on the potential buyer, NOT on the gun. If you want to know if the gun is "clean" meaning not reported stolen, that is a different thing than a background check on the buyer.

State laws matter, and Federal law must be followed as well.

Go to an FFL, and ask. They will be able to walk you through the process, and ensure that both of you comply with all applicable laws, state and Federal.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 2, 2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

Why would I do a bill of sale?

Simple. If the gun is ever linked to a crime I want something in writing I can fall back on. Although I would much prefer the pre-1968 laws, I do my part to be sure the buyer isn't a criminal of some sort. Anyone not willing to show ID, allow ID info to be copied down, and sign a bill of sale, is suspect in their intentions.

This post is illustrative of the dilemma faced by many gun owners. No responsible gun owner wants to sell a firearm to a prohibited person, but many responsible gun owners want to buy their guns (at least some of them) without leaving a paper trail for the government to follow if things deteriorate to the point of confiscation. They also don't want to get dinged if a firearm they sold is subsequently used in a crime.

The arguments for and against bills of sale and copying identification data have been discussed on this and other forums countless times. I doubt there will ever be a consensus. The closest I've seen suggested that somewhat satisfies both sides is to ask a prospective buyer to show proof of eligibility in the form of a carry permit or FOID, but not to copy down the information. That way, the seller has made a proactive attempt to ascertain that the buyer is legal -- but he can't prove it in the event of a problem.

It's not an issue for me because I live in one of those states that doesn't allow face-to-face sales without a government permission slip. (Which, of course, only ensures that such transactions are carried out by the very people the law is intended to prevent from carrying out such transactions.) I wish I lived in a state where I could buy "off paper." That said, perhaps because I have become accustomed to paper trails, if I were selling I think I would do so through an FFL even if not required, because that gives me the comfort of knowing I have proof that I no longer own that firearm.

Quote:

A private person cannot do a background check, even a C&R holder cannot. If you want to "see if the gun is clean" you will have to go through an FFL and pay for it.

Again, each state is different. In my state, private sellers MUST do a background check. It's done through the State Police, not directly through NICS, but it is mandatory for private sales. But, it's on the buyer, not the gun. Even a background check through an FFL doesn't assure that the gun is "clean."

We simply cannot generalize on any of this stuff. We have fifty states plus DC plus federal law. There can never be a one-size-fits-all answer to any of these questions.

ninosdemente · March 2, 2018, 11:27 AM

Thank you guys for the replies. Sure does help me a lot. Well, guess have to dig a bit more before I decide what I want to do. Thanks again.

March 1, 2018, 05:03 PM	#1
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Purchasing from another person What are the right steps needed to purchasing a firearm from another person? Apart from making sure the serial number is not altered in any way shape or form. I haven't bought firearms from another person yet always at a store. But there is a person who purchases self storage rooms at auctions who has had some luck in obtaining some firearms a few times. Some very nice. Would like to get one eventually if possible. But I am curios how would I go about seeing if they are clean. He buys in Illinois and I'm in Indiana. If it that really matters.

March 1, 2018, 05:46 PM	#2
In The Ten Ring Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2018 Posts: 380	Federal law requires both buyer and seller to live in the same state. Indiana probably has nothing more on the books than that but you could ask at a gun store. You should look at this driver's license or photo ID at point of sale and I'd have him sign a bill of sale. There are office stores that sale notebooks that print through to a carbon copy page so both of you has a copy. Meet in a public place, during the day. Parking lots are fine in my experience but be discrete. Around here, most people come to the seller's house and the seller advertised in the local trading paper. A private person cannot do a background check, even a C&R holder cannot. If you want to "see if the gun is clean" you will have to go through an FFL and pay for it. If you suspect the gun came from IL, I wouldn't buy it. IL has some crazy laws (leaving home with gun but not FOID card is a felony? ) so I wouldn't risk it. Go to an FFL. Last edited by In The Ten Ring; March 1, 2018 at 05:55 PM.*

March 1, 2018, 08:19 PM	#8
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Here in FL, I hand you cash, you hand me gun, and we go our separate ways, no Bill of Sale, no copying each other's DL, or anything else. Check your laws in YOUR state. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

March 1, 2018, 05:46 PM	#3
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Here in Illinois, the "rules" are explained fairly clearly on the Illinois State Police web site. Maybe the same in Indiana? Also in Illinois, on the ISP site, you type in the buyers FOID number, and the server instantly tells you if the sale is approved. Print out the approval form, do the 3 day wait, make the transfer. I like it.

March 1, 2018, 05:47 PM	#4
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	A gun purchased at a storage room auction was probably not properly transferred at some point. You can't accidentally or by chance purchase a gun.

March 1, 2018, 05:57 PM	#5
In The Ten Ring Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2018 Posts: 380	A gun purchased at a storage room auction was probably not properly transferred at some point. You can't accidentally or by chance purchase a gun. I would think "forfeited property is forfeited property" and I don't see that being a problem unless due to state law. In this case though, probably best of the forum member goes through an FFL. If the buyer offers to pay the transfer fees, the only seller that would balk might be worried about a paper trail.

March 1, 2018, 09:35 PM	#10
In The Ten Ring Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2018 Posts: 380	Why would I do a bill of sale? Simple. If the gun is ever linked to a crime I want something in writing I can fall back on. Although I would much prefer the pre-1968 laws, I do my part to be sure the buyer isn't a criminal of some sort. Anyone not willing to show ID, allow ID info to be copied down, and sign a bill of sale, is suspect in their intentions.

March 2, 2018, 12:26 AM	#11
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	At the federal level, you need to be residents of the same state, and the seller cannot know/reasonably suspect you are a prohibited person, and you must be adults, of course. Many people take down ID information so they can refer authorities to the next owner, should the gun be reported stolen or used in a crime at a later date. Some others want to see a CCW or some other evidence that the buyer isn't a prohibited person. That said, those are just techniques to prove a chain of custody or make the seller feel more confident. State laws may vary!

March 2, 2018, 11:27 AM	#14
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thank you guys for the replies. Sure does help me a lot. Well, guess have to dig a bit more before I decide what I want to do. Thanks again.