OTM choices for defense from ar pistol

[brycewise]

I was wondering if anyone had any info on which OTM rounds would be suitable for defense use in a 7.5 or 10.5 inch ar 15.

I know that the 77 grain SMK, 69 grain SMK, 75 grain and 68 grain hornady are the ones most commonly used but what about some of the lighter options like the 52,53 or 55 grain. As anyone found any info on how that will work with the lower velocities form a short barrel

[CarJunkieLS1]

It's entirely possible that the OTM rounds will just pencil in and out at a lower velocity. Besides IMO for a defense rifle I wouldn't even consider a match bullet.

Hornady now makes a defense .223 ammo made just for short barreled rifles or pistol builds. If it were me I'd just get some of the MSR Federal Fusion ammo.

I load my own and I bought 5000 of the 62gr Fusion pulls and they have done anything I've needed them to do.

[DMK]

Chopping Block has a few good tests of 5.56 out of SBR length barrels.

Here's a gel test of Federal 62gr Fusion out of an 16" and an 11.5" SBR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otou1Fws4cQ

[Rob228]

I have done zero testing, but keep both my 16" and my 10.5" AR loaded with Hornady Superformance Varmint.

[Mobuck]

"I know that the 77 grain SMK, 69 grain SMK, 75 grain and 68 grain hornady are the ones most commonly used"
It's difficult to understand why bullets with no thought in their design aimed at expansion would be chosen for such use.
"but what about some of the lighter options like the 52,53 or 55 grain."
My choice for the 11.5" AR "repel boarders" pistol is 50 grain JHP varmint loads. It expands on varmints at long range velocities similar to muzzle velocities of a short (11.5") barrel.

[marine6680]

Yeah... I was going to say something about varmint rounds.

I would imagine they are probably more effective out of an SBR than a 16in rifle, due to the lower velocity delaying the fragmentation, and giving better penetration.

At self defense distances, they (55gr varmint) get about 10in of penetration from a 16in barrel. Large wound cavity though. Rifle rounds actually produce hydrostatic forces strong enough to significantly damage beyond the direct path of the bullet or fragments as well... Unlike a pistol round. So I see them as being viable, but maybe not as effective as a 62gr soft point. Safer for use in homes in a dense neighborhood too.

I have been told 60gr is the best choice with varmint bullets, for defensive use. They penetrate farther than the 55gr bullets do. Another member here, familiar with real world use of the rounds in police duty roles.


From an SBR... The 62gr Fusion produced a wound path that looks similar to a pistol round.

Soft point ammo may not be the best from an SBR...

[DMK]

"I know that the 77 grain SMK, 69 grain SMK, 75 grain and 68 grain hornady are the ones most commonly used"
It's difficult to understand why bullets with no thought in their design aimed at expansion would be chosen for such use.

The military (mostly SOCOM) uses MK262, a 5.56x45 round designed by Black Hills that has a 77-grain Sierra MatchKing projectile propelled by a 'hot' proprietary powder at high velocity for bullet weight. Initially designed for the Mk12Mod1 DMR/Sniper rifles, it is also commonly used in M4 carbines (and even 10.5" Mk18Mod1 SBRs in SEAL/VBSS use) due to its tendency to yaw early and break up at the cannelure (similar to M193 ball ammo out of a 20" rifle).

The round has been extensively tested in ballistic gel and does indeed yaw early and fragment at much lower velocities than M193 and especially M855. Copies of the round are available from IMI, Magtech and Blackhills.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/sp...-mod-1-review/

[Sharkbite]

Hornady TAP ammo does very well out of 10.5” guns. It has become the go to round for a lot of teams here in the USA.

[marine6680]

The military use the OTM bullets because they can use them as a work around for the treaties and various rules of war we are expected to abide by... To get a better performing round than FMJ.

That does not mean that they are optimal for the task, just that they are the better choice of a few limited options.

As civilians, we are less restricted.

[DMK]

The military use the OTM bullets because they can use them as a work around for the treaties and various rules of war we are expected to abide by... To get a better performing round than FMJ.

That does not mean that they are optimal for the task, just that they are the better choice of a few limited options.

As civilians, we are less restricted.

True, but I was just responding to your comment; "It's difficult to understand why bullets with no thought in their design aimed at expansion would be chosen for such use."

(Read the article I linked to, it's very interesting)

I agree that there are other very effective designs for sure. In fact, a quote from that article:

I spoke with a good friend with multiple combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His experiences as both a Special Forces sniper team leader and assaulter offered a unique perspective on ammo performance. As a sniper, MK 262 was his preferred round (when he was not using 7.62x51mm NATO), and he said simply, “It’s the best, most accurate round the Army has ever issued.” When carrying the shorter SBR, he ranked Hornady’s 75-grain TAP as the most lethal, followed by MK 318 and with MK 262 riding herd at third.

[bacardisteve]

75gr Hornady bthp if you reload they sell it loaded under the tap line and I think Black hills loads it also. I've used it on coyotes at 75yards from a 11.5". It gets the job done and stays loaded in my ar I carry around the homestead. Not a fan of varmint bullets if there is ever any chance of hitting bone just to unpredictable in my experience.

[marine6680]

DMK... That wasn't me...


But yeah, those are effective rounds relative to standard fmj.

Ranking them in effectiveness is one thing, but it doesn't make them great. I can rank 22lr, 25acp, and 32acp in effectiveness as well.

I have read the article before, good read.

I think a civilian should pick a better round if possible.

If you are buying a round to stack deep for not a ton of money, that would be different, and most likely to be a 55gr 193 clone.

[DMK]

DMK... That wasn't me...

Sorry about that. Got your post confused with the one right above you.

[Nanuk]

I use 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in both my 16" and my 10.5" 5.56 for SD duties.

[armoredman]

I read the 75gr TAP was made for SBRS - ended up getting some blemished bullets for reloading of that flavor, and they worked very well out of my 16" barreled BREN 805 as well.