Shooting Range On My Property

[Eddiejoe]

We put an offer in on a home that has a shooting range already on it from the current owner. There is enough land and enough distance from other structures that shooting would not violate AZ state law.

My questions are for anyone who has a similar setup:
1. Does the presence of the range affect your homeowner's insurance rates?
2. Did you get a separate liability policy because of the range?
3. Does the presence of lead from target practice hinder your ability to sell the property?

Yes, we should have asked these questions prior to making an offer, but we had muzzle-blasts...I mean stars...in our eyes!

Thank you in advance!

[mk70ss]

We have a 100 yard range on our place. It is perfectly legal to have the setup we have. Insurance company and I have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” arrangement.....

[Double Naught Spy]

1. Does the presence of the range affect your homeowner's insurance rates?

This is a question for YOUR insurance agent. I would guess that it could potentially impact your insurance, but not significantly and maybe not at all. As long as it is not a commercial endeavor, then they may see it as no differently than having a dirt bike track on your property, etc.

2. Did you get a separate liability policy because of the range?

This is a question for YOUR insurance agent.

3. Does the presence of lead from target practice hinder your ability to sell the property?

So you are asking for prognostication of what your potential future buyers want. If they are anti-gun...Yes. If they don't want a shooting range...Yes. If they are concerned about lead...YES.

If your future buyer wants a shooting range, then NO, that would NOT hinder your ability to sell. That would be a good selling point of the property.

Of course, you could ask the question about anything. Does having a lot of trees affect the potential sale of a property? Sure. Some people don't want trees. Does not having trees affect the sale of a property? Sure. Some people want trees.

For a lot of TFL members, finding a home with a gun range would be a win-win situation.

[FoghornLeghorn]

1. Does the presence of the range affect your homeowner's insurance rates?
2. Did you get a separate liability policy because of the range?
3. Does the presence of lead from target practice hinder your ability to sell the property?

1. It did not affect my rates (back when I had a "range" in my backyard).
2. No separate policy.
3. In this day and age, with all the anti gun bambi lovers moving into civilized states, it might. It wouldn't bother me, but it might drive Karen even "more insaner."

[Pistoler0]

Regarding the 3rd question,

In my case, I am a shooter,

but lead in my property would concern me. More so if relying on well water.

I'd rather buy a house that is close to a shooting range.

I do have an archery range going all the way out to 100 yds in my property though : ) .

[44 AMP]

but lead in my property would concern me. More so if relying on well water.

Why worry??

First point, "Lead", evil, scary lead that causes all kinds of medical problems is more than a bit of a "red herring" when you're talking about bullets.

Metallic lead, the kind used in bullets, is not water soluble. It does NOT dissolve in water, you CANNOT ingest it from drinking well water. The proof of this is obvious to anyone who does not have an anti-lead agenda and who bothers to take the time to actually use at least two of their brain cells at the same time.

To this day, people can find lead bullets on old battlefields, exposed to the action of weather and erosion for a couple HUNDRED YEARS, or more, and they are not "melted, dissolved, or eroded". The iron of the musket can be rusted away to powder, the stock rotted to dust but the lead musket ball will be essentially intact. (with an oxide coating on the exposed area).

Do not do as others do, (including the govt) and confuse other lead compounds with the lead used in bullets. Those compounds may contain lead in a soluble form, and can enter the body. Lead in paint is "bad" (but only if you EAT IT), lead in the air isn't good, so don't inhale over the melting pot. but the lead in the bullets themselves isn't a problem when its in the ground, except for various govt regulations, which may, or may not apply to private property.

If you're wondering why lead shot is banned for waterfowl, the science part is because waterfowl EAT IT, and their systems grind up the shot into powder that digestive acids can dissolve and enter the bloodstream. The rest of the reason it's banned is political.

[T. O'Heir]

Like Double Naught Spy says, you need to talk to your agent. Liability is about other people coming on your property by invitation whether they pay or not, usually.
Enough land needs to include the fall zone. That's about distance. Military 1,000 yard ranges fall zone are measured in miles.

[tangolima]

You may be bound by your local laws to disclose the presence of lead on your property when you sell it.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Double Naught Spy]

You may be bound by your local laws to disclose the presence of lead on your property when you sell it.

If said laws exist, they apparently are not in play in this location because the property is being sold. The OP is considering buying it.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

If said laws exist, they apparently are not in play in this location because the property is being sold. The OP is considering buying it.

It has apparently been disclosed to him, and he doesn't mind.

If such laws exist, he can't do "don't ask don't tell". He has to tell. The next buyer may mind.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Shadow9mm]

How are you defining a "shooting range". I have had several friend who had private property where they shot regularly. As long as they were outside city limits, they could shoot where they wanted. I would personally try to avoid classifying or labeling things as "shooting ranges". I would go with, place where I normally shoot as it has a reasonable back stop, and no people or buildings behind it.

[buck460XVR]

Sounds like you need to talk to your insurance agent and ask your realtor. Odds are they would have more answers than us random folks on the internet. You'll have to insure the new property anyway and your agent will have to help with the closing. Both are right there for you anyway ans easy to contact.

[recoil junky]

1. Nunnya.

2. Nunnya.

3. I'd be for mining the berm and recasting that bounty.

RJ

[Eddiejoe]

Thank you all very much for your replies!
I know the shooting area is there because we toured the property before making an offer. It wasn't in the listing. We didn't put two and two together about the lead, though. My insurance agent is my next call.
This may, or may not, be our last home we buy. I hope it is. We might reinforce the backstop after we get settled.

@44 AMP, thank you for the education!

[tangolima]

The outdoor ranges of our club get mined a couple of times in a year. I believe the deal is the miner keeps part of the harvest. The rest is sold to members. Perhaps op can hire a miner company to sorta hit the reset button.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Eddiejoe

Thank you all very much for your replies!
I know the shooting area is there because we toured the property before making an offer. It wasn't in the listing. We didn't put two and two together about the lead, though. My insurance agent is my next call.
This may, or may not, be our last home we buy. I hope it is. We might reinforce the backstop after we get settled.

@44 AMP, thank you for the education!

lead tends to oxidize and seal itself off pretty quickly Personally I would not be worried about it....

[T. O'Heir]

"...mining the berm..." Assuming there is a berm, you'd probably have to dig it out regularly anyway. The CF does that on its ranges. Use of the shooting points is actually documented.
"...outside city limits..." Lotta that depends on where you are too. Municipal ordinances being as daft as the assorted hunting regs. We have a few 'no discharge' rural places.
The leading issue is more about if you ever plant anything you want to eat in the fall zone. Lead might leach into the water table too. If you're going to be on a well you should check that before buying. Your lawyer can put that into an offer as a condition. Also usually.

[rc]

You just need an umbrella policy to cover your butt from liability. Don't ask, don't tell. You live in the country. Nuff said. Umbrella policies include someone falling off the roof cleaning your gutters. Make sure that your berm is high enough you can't miss. Make sure you don't fire at steel like pop up targets or where you might hit a rock or ground at a shallow angle that will skip a bullet over your berm. Lead is generally not going to migrate. If you shoot in the same place all the time, you can sift the sand and mine the lead for casting or resell to someone for casting. It's easy to remelt range scrap. If you are not shooting centerfire rifle. You can fill a large box with sand and catch all your bullets. 3 feet of sand will be more than enough for the biggest magnum pistol and probably most rifle too. 1 foot will generally stop most handgun rounds. You should avoid wet soil that won't backfill itself when bullets impact. You will drill through the box over many shots. Lots of ways to catch a bullet. You can make a box with a replaceable plywood front. Or you can just continue to add lead to the existing berm and not worry about it. Add a 17 hmr to your collection if you don't have one. Very low ricochett potential if you need to take out a pest. I promise if you own land, you will have pests.

[Mainah]

I'd also find out if the previous owner let neighbors and friends use the range. It could be a bonus if you've got cool neighbors. It could be a PIA if you don't.

[Urbanrecon]

I would want to check into the history regarding possible past complaints from the neighbors or other community members regarding the range on that property.

You could be acquiring another property owner's can of worms/headache, even for Arizona.

[tangolima]

If they (insurance company) don't ask, you don't tell. But if they ask, you will have to tell. Or they can deny your claim. It will be worse than not having the policy.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[thallub]

You just need an umbrella policy to cover your butt from liability.

This^^^

Our two million dollar umbrella policy costs about $300 per year.

[Ignition Override]

thallub beat me to "an Umbrella" policy.

We added this to our USAA homeowner policy about 27 years ago, simply to help defend against any frivolous attempt to hit us.

[chupps]

As I understand the law in my county in Missouri, as long as the projectile does not cross your property line it is legal. I do agree with the don't ask don't tell recommendation. If the range existed when you bought the property I'm guessing the neighbors won't complain.

[Jack Ryan]

Stop calling it "a range" and call it the yard from now on.


Problem solved.