Problem with slide?

keithdog · February 18, 2014, 09:53 PM

I purchased a S&W Shield back in December. I love the gun, but there is one issue I seem to be having, and am not sure what the problem is. It fires everything I've put through it flawlessly. But, when I insert the clip and rack the first round into the chamber, the slide does not completely close. It comes up just short, requiring me to push the slide all the way closed. I tried cleaning the gun and lubricating, but that didn't work. I've tried multiple brands of bullets, and it was the same. I thought after firing a few hundred rounds, it would work itself out, but it hasn't. I am going to return to the gun dealer I purchased it from and see what they can do. But before I do that, I want to ask you guys what may be going on. I'm no gun smith for sure. I thought maybe it was technique, but I've not had this issue with other autos. If I rack the gun with an empty clip, the slide returns to the fully closed position perfectly. But not when chambering the first round. After that, it chambers fine with each shot. Any ideas?

Marty8613 · February 18, 2014, 10:03 PM

So, will it do this if you load the magazine one short? Is this a factory mag? I ask thinking that the magazine spring is just a bit over strong. If it loads fine one short. There you go. If not, I would buff the ramp a bit. Also, are you cleaning the mags well after a range trip? I get this with one of mine occasionally, but a more thorough mag clean, and a ramp buff fix it.

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 18, 2014, 10:13 PM

Do a test if you can. Take the pistol, and retract the slide, then lock it. Place the gun, barrel end, towards a small electric heater, or hair dryer, just until it gets warm to the touch, nowhere near hot, then try placing a loaded magazine in it, release the slide, then see what is does with chambering the round.

I am thinking it may be just a slightly tight chamber, and once the barrel heats up from the first round, it opens up just enough to work fine.

keithdog · February 18, 2014, 11:23 PM

Marty, This happens with both the clips that came with the gun from the factory. I have no other clips. I haven't tried loading the gun with one round short of a full clip. I will try that though. Regardless, it should work with fully loaded mags. I do clean the gun, mags included after every trip to the range. But this happened from the get go when the mags were brand new.

Dixie, the issue persists even after the gun has warmed from being fired several times. After firing the first clip of rounds, the slide locks back on the empty chamber after the final round has been fired as it should. I will release that clip, insert the second loaded clip and push the slide lock down, allowing the slide to spring forward, and it will then properly load the first round completely for firing. It is only when I have to chamber the gun manually from a closed position that the hang up occurs.

Marty8613 · February 19, 2014, 12:24 AM

So I bounced around out there and found two things worth noting about FTF with the Shield.

1. Buff the feed ramp - easy, but I don't think this is it.
2. There is a spacer on the mag to prevent FTF by over insertion. Is it there?

I got a LOT of hits referencing 'S&W Shield FTF' mostly with the 9mm

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 19, 2014, 08:37 AM

keithdog,

I figured I would ask, as what I mentioned is rare, and I've only seen an under size chamber, maybe twice, on new pistols since I've been in business.

I take it you have inspected the feed ramp, etc, to make sure it isn't rough? I kind of figured you had by what you've explained.

Anyhow, the other cause that can happen is excessive force from ammo rubbing on the bottom of the slide, as it closes, which is the most likely. If the magazine is loaded with the correct amount of ammo, then this shouldn't happen, but it is possible. Again, rare, but not nearly as much as an under size chamber.

What happens is, when the magazine if fully loaded, the spring is compressed to it's design maximum, and it's greatest force. That force is exerted upwards, and against the slide's bottom through the top round. So, when the next round comes up, after the the preceding comes loose of the mag. lips, and is chambered, the next round presses up, but with less force then it's predecessor. The force will create a friction on the bottom of the slide, as it moves the last bit forward, kind of like applying a brake.

First, try a new magazine. That may do it, but if not, there are a couple of other things to try. One is to replace the recoil spring, and the other is to modify the magazine spring, and that is left until dead last. That is, if you wish to keep the old magazine to start with.

g.willikers · February 19, 2014, 01:12 PM

If the gun goes into battery when using the slide release, it might just be you are being too gentle with it when you activate the slide by hand.
Try giving it a real good sling shot attempt.
Don't baby it and see what happens.
Do it like Tiger McKee does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnd-PkHud0M

James K · February 19, 2014, 01:42 PM

I am thinking of the extractor not snapping over the rim when the slide is released manually. Most folks don't fully understand that in firing, a lot of momentum is imparted to the forward movement of the slide by the slide bouncing off the frame, returning momentum captured when the slide hit the frame on recoil. (This is the problem with guns having a slide buffer failing to feed properly.)

I suspect the problem can be corrected by a little polishing of the extractor.

Jim

g.willikers · February 19, 2014, 01:46 PM

In a pistol, don't rounds from the magazine slip under the extractor and are held snug to the breach?
The only time the extractor pops over the rim is if a round is fed into the chamber singly through the ejection port.
Usually frowned upon.
Yes?

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 19, 2014, 02:00 PM

It could be from a combination of the extractor pressure being shoved back as it goes over the rim, and the magazine force together. Both are due to spring pressure, retarding the force of the recoil spring when its at it weakest, almost fully extended.

Dixie Gunsmithing · February 19, 2014, 02:03 PM

g.willikers,

Its according to how its made. Some slide under, and some do both sliding under, and hopping over the rim groove, because the extractor is pushed inward father than it is when holding the rim, and has to be pushed outward when the rim comes up.

February 18, 2014, 09:53 PM	#1
keithdog Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2013 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 321	Problem with slide? I purchased a S&W Shield back in December. I love the gun, but there is one issue I seem to be having, and am not sure what the problem is. It fires everything I've put through it flawlessly. But, when I insert the clip and rack the first round into the chamber, the slide does not completely close. It comes up just short, requiring me to push the slide all the way closed. I tried cleaning the gun and lubricating, but that didn't work. I've tried multiple brands of bullets, and it was the same. I thought after firing a few hundred rounds, it would work itself out, but it hasn't. I am going to return to the gun dealer I purchased it from and see what they can do. But before I do that, I want to ask you guys what may be going on. I'm no gun smith for sure. I thought maybe it was technique, but I've not had this issue with other autos. If I rack the gun with an empty clip, the slide returns to the fully closed position perfectly. But not when chambering the first round. After that, it chambers fine with each shot. Any ideas? __________________ In MY house, I AM 911

February 18, 2014, 10:03 PM	#2
Marty8613 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Grapevine TX Posts: 378	Questions So, will it do this if you load the magazine one short? Is this a factory mag? I ask thinking that the magazine spring is just a bit over strong. If it loads fine one short. There you go. If not, I would buff the ramp a bit. Also, are you cleaning the mags well after a range trip? I get this with one of mine occasionally, but a more thorough mag clean, and a ramp buff fix it.

February 18, 2014, 11:23 PM	#4
keithdog Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2013 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 321	Marty, This happens with both the clips that came with the gun from the factory. I have no other clips. I haven't tried loading the gun with one round short of a full clip. I will try that though. Regardless, it should work with fully loaded mags. I do clean the gun, mags included after every trip to the range. But this happened from the get go when the mags were brand new. Dixie, the issue persists even after the gun has warmed from being fired several times. After firing the first clip of rounds, the slide locks back on the empty chamber after the final round has been fired as it should. I will release that clip, insert the second loaded clip and push the slide lock down, allowing the slide to spring forward, and it will then properly load the first round completely for firing. It is only when I have to chamber the gun manually from a closed position that the hang up occurs. __________________ In MY house, I AM 911

February 19, 2014, 12:24 AM	#5
Marty8613 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Grapevine TX Posts: 378	Spacer So I bounced around out there and found two things worth noting about FTF with the Shield. 1. Buff the feed ramp - easy, but I don't think this is it. 2. There is a spacer on the mag to prevent FTF by over insertion. Is it there? I got a LOT of hits referencing 'S&W Shield FTF' mostly with the 9mm

February 19, 2014, 08:37 AM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	keithdog, I figured I would ask, as what I mentioned is rare, and I've only seen an under size chamber, maybe twice, on new pistols since I've been in business. I take it you have inspected the feed ramp, etc, to make sure it isn't rough? I kind of figured you had by what you've explained. Anyhow, the other cause that can happen is excessive force from ammo rubbing on the bottom of the slide, as it closes, which is the most likely. If the magazine is loaded with the correct amount of ammo, then this shouldn't happen, but it is possible. Again, rare, but not nearly as much as an under size chamber. What happens is, when the magazine if fully loaded, the spring is compressed to it's design maximum, and it's greatest force. That force is exerted upwards, and against the slide's bottom through the top round. So, when the next round comes up, after the the preceding comes loose of the mag. lips, and is chambered, the next round presses up, but with less force then it's predecessor. The force will create a friction on the bottom of the slide, as it moves the last bit forward, kind of like applying a brake. First, try a new magazine. That may do it, but if not, there are a couple of other things to try. One is to replace the recoil spring, and the other is to modify the magazine spring, and that is left until dead last. That is, if you wish to keep the old magazine to start with. Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; February 19, 2014 at 09:22 AM.

February 18, 2014, 10:13 PM	#3
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Do a test if you can. Take the pistol, and retract the slide, then lock it. Place the gun, barrel end, towards a small electric heater, or hair dryer, just until it gets warm to the touch, nowhere near hot, then try placing a loaded magazine in it, release the slide, then see what is does with chambering the round. I am thinking it may be just a slightly tight chamber, and once the barrel heats up from the first round, it opens up just enough to work fine.

February 19, 2014, 01:12 PM	#7
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If the gun goes into battery when using the slide release, it might just be you are being too gentle with it when you activate the slide by hand. Try giving it a real good sling shot attempt. Don't baby it and see what happens. Do it like Tiger McKee does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnd-PkHud0M __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; February 19, 2014 at 01:20 PM.

February 19, 2014, 01:42 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am thinking of the extractor not snapping over the rim when the slide is released manually. Most folks don't fully understand that in firing, a lot of momentum is imparted to the forward movement of the slide by the slide bouncing off the frame, returning momentum captured when the slide hit the frame on recoil. (This is the problem with guns having a slide buffer failing to feed properly.) I suspect the problem can be corrected by a little polishing of the extractor. Jim

February 19, 2014, 01:46 PM	#9
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	In a pistol, don't rounds from the magazine slip under the extractor and are held snug to the breach? The only time the extractor pops over the rim is if a round is fed into the chamber singly through the ejection port. Usually frowned upon. Yes? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 19, 2014, 02:00 PM	#10
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	It could be from a combination of the extractor pressure being shoved back as it goes over the rim, and the magazine force together. Both are due to spring pressure, retarding the force of the recoil spring when its at it weakest, almost fully extended.

February 19, 2014, 02:03 PM	#11
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	g.willikers, Its according to how its made. Some slide under, and some do both sliding under, and hopping over the rim groove, because the extractor is pushed inward father than it is when holding the rim, and has to be pushed outward when the rim comes up. Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; February 19, 2014 at 02:10 PM.