Question for bow hunters regarding boars - Page 2

2damnold4this · May 28, 2013, 04:45 PM

I like the idea of a crossbow backed by pepper spray. If money is not a problem, a suppressed subsonic round from a carbine. Something like this would be at least as quiet as many crossbows.

myfriendis410 · May 29, 2013, 10:29 AM

Good advice to find a pro shop that specializes in archery. The better archery tackle is only available through pro shops. Something about how the industry is set up. As a general rule; the more money you spend on your bow will translate into a quieter, faster, more comfortable tool than a cheap one.

Also; a modern compound shoots a LOT harder than a stick and string bow. They are also much easier to shoot accurately with practice. You definitely want lots of kinetic energy when shooting hogs. I use modern expandable broadheads (Rage) and have not lost a hog with them. I DID lose several hogs using fixed blade broadheads. The fighting plate on a big boar will indeed stop an arrow so accuracy and good arrow placement are critical. Still hunting from the ground is an excellent technique and most of the time an arrow shot hog is gonna go the other way.

I shoot a PSE and would recommend one. Look at Hoyt and Matthews as well as many others. There's a tremendous assortment out there and it's best to try a variety to find what works for you best. One of the problems with a newbie bow shooter is they really don't even know the questions to ask. Many go down a bad road before gaining the experience to judge for themselves. As a case in point when I first started shooting I shot a 30" arrow, but with time and experience my arrow length had to be shortened to 28 1/2". That's just developing proper form over time. Take your time and talk to a lot of archers before spending a bunch of money.

BuckRub · May 31, 2013, 12:53 PM

for mechanical broadheads I like Swacker and Spitfire second. Personally I most always use Thunderheads just because I hunted with them for about 18 years and the are tried and true, they never let me down. I hunt with compounds, crossbow and a recurve. The recurve to me is the most challenging and for that is the most rewarding. Although last year I think I killed either 2-3 deer with a crossbow also. What I may like you may want to do something different. You owe it to yourself to try everyway possible and then go from there. Most beginners will buy cheaper line equipment and start off with a compound or crossbow and the ones who really love it after a couple years will upgrade and the ones who really like to do things primal after a couple years its a recurve or a longbow and instintive shooting. Really gives you a rush. Slightly slower feet per second but very very quiet.

silvrjeepr · June 3, 2013, 11:30 AM

Muzzy or G5 montec for me. I just never warmed up to the mechanicals for some reason.

Scout · June 3, 2013, 11:36 AM

I've got the same old 45# recurve bow that I've hunted with for 36 years. It has put tons of pork in the freezer.

BuckRub · June 3, 2013, 12:48 PM

Ah yes, recurves. Isn't it rewarding? And to have same bow and use year after year. I have had the same recurve bow for about 19 years and still gong strong.

g.willikers · June 3, 2013, 04:43 PM

Same here.
Compounds are efficient and effective, but they take the challenge out of it.
Besides that, they have too many gee gaws to go wrong.
If I miss with my trusty old recurve, there's no doubt where the blame lies.
I have two.
A thirty five year old Bear laminated wood recurve, rated at 36 lb.
And a twenty or so year old PSE/Hoyt take down competition style, rated at 42 lb.
Great bows, both.
I shoot them instinctive style.
Just like Byron Ferguson, but not nearly so well.
Not the speediest, but very accurate.
Soft drink cans at 20 yds are dead where they stand.

justplainpossum · June 3, 2013, 08:03 PM

What a coincidence, I was charged by a soft drink can just last week...

Brian Pfleuger · June 3, 2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

Also; a modern compound shoots a LOT harder than a stick and string bow. They are also much easier to shoot accurately with practice. You definitely want lots of kinetic energy when shooting hogs. I use modern expandable broadheads (Rage) and have not lost a hog with them. I DID lose several hogs using fixed blade broadheads.

I've used quite a few broadheads over the years and the worst penetrators I've ever seen are the original 2-blade Rage. If I hunted Hogs with them, I'd want a LOT of kinetic energy, I mean a LOT, like 75lbs absolute minimum. More than most women would ever be able to pull and certainly more than most men would ever need if they used a much better broadhead.

From what I've seen, nothing beats a Slick Trick, for accuracy or killing power. Accuracy is king. Frankly, they all kill if you hit them where you're supposed to AND get penetration.... and contrary to their commercials, almost anything will out penetrate a Rage. At least they finally put draw-weight recommendations on some of their products, not that it means anything....

Both of the following bows at 57 pounds draw weight....

Slick Tricks blow through deer with my old 213 fps 37 ft/lbs York bow. I (screwed up) and hit a large doe at 18 yards in the neck (not the spine) using a Rage 2-blade and a Hoyt Katera, 285 fps, making 57 ft/lbs and it DIDN'T make an exit wound. Two weeks later, same Katera, I shot an average 5-point from 18 yards, perfect quartering, double lung shot, and the Rage didn't make it through. Were both deer dead? Yes, though the doe took several hours to get there, but the performance was dismal.

I have a friend who hunts elk with a 47lb Matthews and has never failed to get two holes with a Slick Trick.

BuckRub · June 3, 2013, 10:15 PM

My two brother n laws use rage, they shoot one deer and the blades are bent to crap almost every time. I've used thunderheads and can usually kill 8-9 before blades get dull. Ferrule is not bent though. You just have to swap blades out and hit a broadside and get complete pass thru almost 99% of time with compound or crossbow. Recurve you'll get complete passes about 85% of the time. Never tried anything else (no need too).

HungryHunter · June 4, 2013, 10:37 AM

I used a muzzy fixed blade 125 grain, with a 10.5 gpi easton fmj on my javelina this year. Not sure if that is an ideal setup or not, I kinda put it together myself. I will say though, it went right through both lungs and stuck out about six inches through the ribs, coming out of a matthews, 70lb, at about 40m. Not sure how similar javelina are to your hogs. This one weighed 61lbs. I know y'all's get a lot bigger.

BuckRub · June 4, 2013, 01:21 PM

Never shot a javalina. My buddy shot Muzzy fixed blades and done great on whitetail.

arch308 · June 4, 2013, 03:23 PM

Can't go wrong with Muzzy.

BuckRub · June 4, 2013, 04:29 PM

Crossbows are noisy. Almost like a pellet gun. Compound bows are less but recurve or longbows are extremely quiet.

Brian Pfleuger · June 4, 2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Crossbows are noisy.

Good, modern ones aren't that bad and it rarely matters anyway. If you do the math on the speed of the arrow and a animal's approximate reaction time to sound, nothing closer than about 25 yards will be able to do more than twitch before that arrow get's there.

Anyway, I'd rather have fast and loud(er) than quiet and SLOOOoooowwww.

Quote:

...Muzzy...

Muzzy broadheads work just fine for killing things. They are neither especially good nor bad. Everything kills, Muzzy is no exception. They penetrate like just about every other similar fixed blade. Their accuracy is acceptable but not as good as Slick Trick if you're an accuracy freak. The average shooter can't tell the difference.

BuckRub · June 4, 2013, 06:14 PM

Complete opposite here. I like recurves - more challenging, quiter, less things to go wrong, primitive and more rewarding. But I have all. Yes under 25 yards arrow is already passed thru and stuck in the ground as soon as you pull trigger. All are good it's just you get what you want out of it. Just meat-crossbow. Very challenging but rewarding along with meat then recurve or longbow. In between with a lot of fancy gimmicks-compound. All do the same thing.

HungryHunter · June 4, 2013, 07:30 PM

Brian,
As always, I'm gonna start and say I'm not the most experienced hunter. I like to think I'm an okay archer though. I was respectfully wondering what you're definition of acceptable accuracy is? I can shoot a pattern the size of a cantaloupe at 50m with 6 arrows with a Muzzy. To me that is acceptable, maybe I'm just an average archer. I will look into the Slick Trick if it does better. My bud is super impressed with RamCats, but I haven't seen any in person. I don't care enough about any brand(except Copenhagen

)to get on my high horse over. Was just wondering, how much difference you think there is.

Brian Pfleuger · June 4, 2013, 08:36 PM

Muzzy's are acceptably accurate. You'd probably have to be a top level competitive shooter to know the difference. You might be able to tell, hard to say. Very few archers who don't use back tension will be good enough to see the difference.
Almost all broadheads are acceptable, although I have run across a couple that weren't (a Walmart brand that looked like Muzzy leaps to mind).
Some guys are accuracy freaks. When you can shoot 60x 300, you can tell. (I can't, BTW, but I know guys who can/do.)

Striker1 · June 4, 2013, 08:55 PM

Never heard of slick trick as I haven't kept up with archery gear in the last 6-7 years. They look like Muzzy so what's the difference?

FWIW, I've killed hogs with muzzy's no problem. I would imagine most popular bow / broad head combo would work if you hit 'em where you need to.

And no mechanicals for me...had a bad experience with them once.

HungryHunter · June 4, 2013, 09:13 PM

I'm quite sure I don't shoot a 60x300, the main factor in my judgment being I don't even know for sure what that means!

I was just wondering if you could answer my question a little more clearly, (maybe you did and I'm just too thick to have gotten the point) but I still am wondering what is the big noticeable difference in the Slick Tricks and Muzzys?Like I said 50m is my decent patterns. I can shoot father than that but, I wouldn't because I don't think I will comfortably, and ethically be able to do that on an animal anytime soon unless the deer start getting A LOT bigger.

For you I'm sure there is a difference, but am I gonna notice if I pay the money and switch to Slick Tricks in your opinion?

Brian Pfleuger · June 4, 2013, 09:31 PM

Actually, for me there's not much difference. I'm not that great of a shooter.

60x-300 is a perfect score in competition. It means you shot 60 arrows and put every single one in the in the 1.5" 10 ring, and not only that but every one hit the X, the center of the center.

The trick with archery is not what happens when you make a good shot, it's what happens when you make a less than good shot. The best, most forgiving equipment makes your less than best shots better.

What's "different" about Slick Trick? I have no idea, except I've never known a really good shooter who could shoot any broadhead better. Maybe there's a better one, I haven't seen them all, but if there is I haven't heard of it.

What is "acceptable accuracy"? It means putting every arrow in the kill zone but not when you make your best shots, when you make a less than best shot. Of course, you screw up bad enough and no arrow, bow, broadhead or anything else is going to guide the arrow where you wanted it, but really good equipment "forgives" small errors.

HungryHunter · June 4, 2013, 09:46 PM

Oh okay, thanks. I am pretty sure I could sit out there shooting until I starved and not do that. I like that definition of accuracy. I think I'm gonna start re-routing those nueropathways along those lines. I guess you summed it up the first time, I just made the mistake of thinking I was slightly above average. Which I am for my highly esteemed and decorated peer group (my pompous and not very good brother in law!)

BuckRub · June 4, 2013, 10:01 PM

You can shoot a perfect score in competition at 50M then try it deer or hog hunting and miss by a mile or wound a lot and them run off and never to be found. At 50 yards a deer can jump the string so quick and hogs I'm sure the same. It's nothing like a target standing there looking at you all day. I'd advise hunters to do their best to make clean ethical kills on the game their taking. We owe that to the game were taking, if not let them walk and there'll be another day.

HungryHunter · June 4, 2013, 10:13 PM

BuckRub, agreed.

myfriendis410 · June 7, 2013, 09:57 PM

I'll stick with the Rages. Every hog but one was a complete pass through and the one that wasn't went about 30 yards. Every hog I shot with a muzzy (in the 12 ring) went about 1/2 mile before getting off the property to be lost forever. My mule deer last year was a perfect lung heart lung shot with the shaft buried in the ground two thirds of it's length in the ground. All my buddies here shoot 'em too and their just fine with 'em. I remember one of my archery pals tried some shuttle T's and shot one hog five times and had to recycle arrows while doing it. BTW he shot for PSE and was awfully good. Anything can happen with a bow and arrow and having a larger cutting area is just good sense for me. I know others have used fixed blades very effectively; it's just not working for ME.

June 3, 2013, 11:30 AM	#29
silvrjeepr Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Posts: 213	Question for bow hunters regarding boars Muzzy or G5 montec for me. I just never warmed up to the mechanicals for some reason.

June 3, 2013, 11:36 AM	#30
Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 510	I've got the same old 45# recurve bow that I've hunted with for 36 years. It has put tons of pork in the freezer. __________________ God bless the U.S. Cavalry

June 3, 2013, 04:43 PM	#32
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Same here. Compounds are efficient and effective, but they take the challenge out of it. Besides that, they have too many gee gaws to go wrong. If I miss with my trusty old recurve, there's no doubt where the blame lies. I have two. A thirty five year old Bear laminated wood recurve, rated at 36 lb. And a twenty or so year old PSE/Hoyt take down competition style, rated at 42 lb. Great bows, both. I shoot them instinctive style. Just like Byron Ferguson, but not nearly so well. Not the speediest, but very accurate. Soft drink cans at 20 yds are dead where they stand. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 4, 2013, 08:55 PM	#44
Striker1 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: TX Posts: 710	Never heard of slick trick as I haven't kept up with archery gear in the last 6-7 years. They look like Muzzy so what's the difference? FWIW, I've killed hogs with muzzy's no problem. I would imagine most popular bow / broad head combo would work if you hit 'em where you need to. And no mechanicals for me...had a bad experience with them once. Last edited by Striker1; June 4, 2013 at 09:04 PM.

May 28, 2013, 04:45 PM	#26
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I like the idea of a crossbow backed by pepper spray. If money is not a problem, a suppressed subsonic round from a carbine. Something like this would be at least as quiet as many crossbows.

May 29, 2013, 10:29 AM	#27
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	Good advice to find a pro shop that specializes in archery. The better archery tackle is only available through pro shops. Something about how the industry is set up. As a general rule; the more money you spend on your bow will translate into a quieter, faster, more comfortable tool than a cheap one. Also; a modern compound shoots a LOT harder than a stick and string bow. They are also much easier to shoot accurately with practice. You definitely want lots of kinetic energy when shooting hogs. I use modern expandable broadheads (Rage) and have not lost a hog with them. I DID lose several hogs using fixed blade broadheads. The fighting plate on a big boar will indeed stop an arrow so accuracy and good arrow placement are critical. Still hunting from the ground is an excellent technique and most of the time an arrow shot hog is gonna go the other way. I shoot a PSE and would recommend one. Look at Hoyt and Matthews as well as many others. There's a tremendous assortment out there and it's best to try a variety to find what works for you best. One of the problems with a newbie bow shooter is they really don't even know the questions to ask. Many go down a bad road before gaining the experience to judge for themselves. As a case in point when I first started shooting I shot a 30" arrow, but with time and experience my arrow length had to be shortened to 28 1/2". That's just developing proper form over time. Take your time and talk to a lot of archers before spending a bunch of money.

May 31, 2013, 12:53 PM	#28
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	for mechanical broadheads I like Swacker and Spitfire second. Personally I most always use Thunderheads just because I hunted with them for about 18 years and the are tried and true, they never let me down. I hunt with compounds, crossbow and a recurve. The recurve to me is the most challenging and for that is the most rewarding. Although last year I think I killed either 2-3 deer with a crossbow also. What I may like you may want to do something different. You owe it to yourself to try everyway possible and then go from there. Most beginners will buy cheaper line equipment and start off with a compound or crossbow and the ones who really love it after a couple years will upgrade and the ones who really like to do things primal after a couple years its a recurve or a longbow and instintive shooting. Really gives you a rush. Slightly slower feet per second but very very quiet.

June 3, 2013, 12:48 PM	#31
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	Ah yes, recurves. Isn't it rewarding? And to have same bow and use year after year. I have had the same recurve bow for about 19 years and still gong strong.

June 3, 2013, 08:03 PM	#33
justplainpossum Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Location: duh, Texas! : ) Posts: 222	What a coincidence, I was charged by a soft drink can just last week...

June 3, 2013, 10:15 PM	#35
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	My two brother n laws use rage, they shoot one deer and the blades are bent to crap almost every time. I've used thunderheads and can usually kill 8-9 before blades get dull. Ferrule is not bent though. You just have to swap blades out and hit a broadside and get complete pass thru almost 99% of time with compound or crossbow. Recurve you'll get complete passes about 85% of the time. Never tried anything else (no need too).

June 4, 2013, 10:37 AM	#36
HungryHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	I used a muzzy fixed blade 125 grain, with a 10.5 gpi easton fmj on my javelina this year. Not sure if that is an ideal setup or not, I kinda put it together myself. I will say though, it went right through both lungs and stuck out about six inches through the ribs, coming out of a matthews, 70lb, at about 40m. Not sure how similar javelina are to your hogs. This one weighed 61lbs. I know y'all's get a lot bigger.

June 4, 2013, 01:21 PM	#37
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	Never shot a javalina. My buddy shot Muzzy fixed blades and done great on whitetail.

June 4, 2013, 03:23 PM	#38
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	Can't go wrong with Muzzy.

June 4, 2013, 04:29 PM	#39
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	Crossbows are noisy. Almost like a pellet gun. Compound bows are less but recurve or longbows are extremely quiet.

June 4, 2013, 06:14 PM	#41
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	Complete opposite here. I like recurves - more challenging, quiter, less things to go wrong, primitive and more rewarding. But I have all. Yes under 25 yards arrow is already passed thru and stuck in the ground as soon as you pull trigger. All are good it's just you get what you want out of it. Just meat-crossbow. Very challenging but rewarding along with meat then recurve or longbow. In between with a lot of fancy gimmicks-compound. All do the same thing.

June 4, 2013, 07:30 PM	#42
HungryHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	Brian, As always, I'm gonna start and say I'm not the most experienced hunter. I like to think I'm an okay archer though. I was respectfully wondering what you're definition of acceptable accuracy is? I can shoot a pattern the size of a cantaloupe at 50m with 6 arrows with a Muzzy. To me that is acceptable, maybe I'm just an average archer. I will look into the Slick Trick if it does better. My bud is super impressed with RamCats, but I haven't seen any in person. I don't care enough about any brand(except Copenhagen )to get on my high horse over. Was just wondering, how much difference you think there is.

June 4, 2013, 08:36 PM	#43
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Muzzy's are acceptably accurate. You'd probably have to be a top level competitive shooter to know the difference. You might be able to tell, hard to say. Very few archers who don't use back tension will be good enough to see the difference. Almost all broadheads are acceptable, although I have run across a couple that weren't (a Walmart brand that looked like Muzzy leaps to mind). Some guys are accuracy freaks. When you can shoot 60x 300, you can tell. (I can't, BTW, but I know guys who can/do.)

June 4, 2013, 09:13 PM	#45
HungryHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	I'm quite sure I don't shoot a 60x300, the main factor in my judgment being I don't even know for sure what that means! I was just wondering if you could answer my question a little more clearly, (maybe you did and I'm just too thick to have gotten the point) but I still am wondering what is the big noticeable difference in the Slick Tricks and Muzzys?Like I said 50m is my decent patterns. I can shoot father than that but, I wouldn't because I don't think I will comfortably, and ethically be able to do that on an animal anytime soon unless the deer start getting A LOT bigger. For you I'm sure there is a difference, but am I gonna notice if I pay the money and switch to Slick Tricks in your opinion?

June 4, 2013, 09:31 PM	#46
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Actually, for me there's not much difference. I'm not that great of a shooter. 60x-300 is a perfect score in competition. It means you shot 60 arrows and put every single one in the in the 1.5" 10 ring, and not only that but every one hit the X, the center of the center. The trick with archery is not what happens when you make a good shot, it's what happens when you make a less than good shot. The best, most forgiving equipment makes your less than best shots better. What's "different" about Slick Trick? I have no idea, except I've never known a really good shooter who could shoot any broadhead better. Maybe there's a better one, I haven't seen them all, but if there is I haven't heard of it. What is "acceptable accuracy"? It means putting every arrow in the kill zone but not when you make your best shots, when you make a less than best shot. Of course, you screw up bad enough and no arrow, bow, broadhead or anything else is going to guide the arrow where you wanted it, but really good equipment "forgives" small errors.

June 4, 2013, 09:46 PM	#47
HungryHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	Oh okay, thanks. I am pretty sure I could sit out there shooting until I starved and not do that. I like that definition of accuracy. I think I'm gonna start re-routing those nueropathways along those lines. I guess you summed it up the first time, I just made the mistake of thinking I was slightly above average. Which I am for my highly esteemed and decorated peer group (my pompous and not very good brother in law!)

June 4, 2013, 10:01 PM	#48
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	You can shoot a perfect score in competition at 50M then try it deer or hog hunting and miss by a mile or wound a lot and them run off and never to be found. At 50 yards a deer can jump the string so quick and hogs I'm sure the same. It's nothing like a target standing there looking at you all day. I'd advise hunters to do their best to make clean ethical kills on the game their taking. We owe that to the game were taking, if not let them walk and there'll be another day.

June 4, 2013, 10:13 PM	#49
HungryHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 164	BuckRub, agreed.

June 7, 2013, 09:57 PM	#50
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	I'll stick with the Rages. Every hog but one was a complete pass through and the one that wasn't went about 30 yards. Every hog I shot with a muzzy (in the 12 ring) went about 1/2 mile before getting off the property to be lost forever. My mule deer last year was a perfect lung heart lung shot with the shaft buried in the ground two thirds of it's length in the ground. All my buddies here shoot 'em too and their just fine with 'em. I remember one of my archery pals tried some shuttle T's and shot one hog five times and had to recycle arrows while doing it. BTW he shot for PSE and was awfully good. Anything can happen with a bow and arrow and having a larger cutting area is just good sense for me. I know others have used fixed blades very effectively; it's just not working for ME.