Loads for 7mm Rem Mag Varget or IMR 4064?

Dr. Strangelove · August 24, 2008, 06:35 PM

I'm curious about these powders, I just started loading for a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag I've had a few years without shooting it. I had some IMR 4350 I needed to burn up so I loaded a few with 56.4 grs IMR 4350, a CCI 250 large rifle magnum primer and 154 gr Hornady SST's. I ended up with a .411 in 3 shot group at 100yds, just crazy luck I guess. I like that, it will more than likely be my new hunting load, but I'm out of IMR 4350 and wouldn't mind trying the other two powders I mentioned just to see what happens. So anyway, anyone have a 7mm Rem Mag load for 154gr Hornady SST and CCI 250 large rifle magnum primers in Varget or IMR 4064?

dardascastbullets · August 24, 2008, 07:16 PM

May I recommend the Reloader series of powders? Varget will be much too fast and you will not be able to use up the case volume with it resulting in not so promising results. The Reloader series (like Reloader 22) will be much more compatible with your magnum. If you can get your hands on some, buy a 250 pack of RWS primers - you'll be amazed at what they will do for your groups.

Matt

Dr. Strangelove · August 24, 2008, 07:47 PM

I'll buy a new supply of powder, these have been in storage since 1991 and I just thought I'd burn them up in my rifles rather than just fertilizing the yard with them. The Varget I just bought for a .223 Rem, thought maybe I could get a little scale of efficiency and use the same powder for all. I load .270 Win., .308 Win, .223 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 8mm Mauser. I have always liked the IMR 3031 for .270 Win and it seems to work well for cartridges in that class, but I suppose I will need to change to a dedicated powder for magnum calibers.

Dr. Strangelove · August 24, 2008, 08:00 PM

I'd like to hear a little more about these, as that tight 7mm group was just a fluke. My .270 Win is capable of ragged hole groups, I've done it in the past, but the 7mm Rem Mag Savage 110 out of the box with factory crap scope shoots .411" with just a random pick from the Hornady book.

My question - how much difference does the primer make? From past experience, bullet choice is the best predictor of accuracy.

crowbeaner · August 24, 2008, 08:16 PM

Hey doc; why don't you try some WW 760? You can use it for just about anything within reason, it meters like water, and I've never seen a rifle that wouldn't shoot it well with somebody's bullets. H414 will do if you can't find 760 close by, but most retailers that stock powder will have some. Stay away from the slower WW powders like 785 (discontinued) because they can be quirky in some calibers. I used 760 in my 300 WM, and it shot cloverleafs with the very first load I tried.

dardascastbullets · August 25, 2008, 08:09 PM

The primer can make a great load or an also-ran load. I can only speak of my results with RWS primers. I thought I was shooting good scores (highpower and longrange) until a friend of mine from down-state mentioned if I had ever tried RWS primers. I purchased a brick of 2,500 and was really amazed at the HUGE improvement in SD and the HUGE reduction in group sizes (all documented at that time).

Matt

flyboy14 · August 25, 2008, 08:12 PM

don't know about the two powders you listed, I run imr 4831 in my 7mm with good results, also works well in 6mm, 30-06, and 25-06. But you never know with varget, never tried it in my 7mm, but got good groups in one of my 30-06 with it. You never know unless you try it. flyboy

ForneyRider · August 26, 2008, 03:37 PM

I ran min loads of IMR 3031, IMR 4064, HVarget, and some RL19 with Sierra Pro Hunter 120gr. They shoot great. I was hoping for around 3000fps. The RE19 was a guess, because the min. load was above 3000fps.

My idea was to make some light loads and use up the rest of the powder.

I used the data off the Hodgdon site.

happy1 · August 27, 2008, 05:30 PM

I use IMR 4064 fir 7MM Rem with Hornady 120gr VMAX to 175gr Grandslam with good results

HiBC · August 31, 2008, 03:11 PM

Varget works very well in the .308 with 165 gr bullets.I would guess it is useful for the 8x57.It is a very versitile powder,but the 7 mag is not a round for it.

**Unclenick** · August 31, 2008, 04:15 PM

Varget and 4064 are faster than is optimal in the 7 mm Rem. Mag. They will reach full normal pressure with the case only 85% full, which is not best for accuracy. You can try it , though, if you are looking for a mild load. You should find 51 grains of Varget gives similar accuracy to your IMR 4350 load, as will 50.3 grains of IMR 4064.

ForneyRider · August 31, 2008, 07:22 PM

Nosler has IMR4064 listed on their website for the Rem. 7mm Mag.

Dr. Strangelove · September 2, 2008, 09:55 AM

Thanks everyone, for the well thought out and information filled replies. Unlike a lot of forums, everyone I've run across here (at least in Handloading and Reloading) seems to be interested in passing on good information without being , well, you know how some of the other forums can get. Kind of reminds me of the Big Green Egg forum, good folks there as well.

Anyway, I went to the range both Friday and Monday. I had loaded 4 loads .270 and 5 loads 7mm RM 5 rounds each with IMR 4064, unfortunately, upon reaching the range (an hour away) I realized my precious cartridges were sitting on my desk. I did have five rounds of 7mm RM that I had put in an envelope and threw in the range bag because the little red plastic box was full. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I watched my brother shoot some .223 Rem rounds we had loaded and shot the five shot group of 7mm RM 52.0 grs IMR 4064 with the bullets mentioned above. Results were pretty much as you guys suggested, 3.416" group at 100 yds (Hey, I'm honest).

Monday's trip went much better, seeing as I had remembered the ammunition, and I shot the rest of my loads both .270 and 7mm RM. Best groups with IMR 4064 were 1.685" 49.0 grs 7mm and 1.364" 47.0 grs .270 Win. These were at 75yds, the maximum distance at Wilson Shoals WMA range, which is a pretty nice little range by the way. Acceptable for hunting, which is what theses two rifles do, but I still like better accuracy. You guys are right, IMR 4064 works well enough, but it's not, at least in my rifle, as accurate as I would like.

ForneyRider · September 2, 2008, 12:51 PM

You're prolly a few grains off on the IMR4064 and 154gr 7mm Mag load. 49gr is a min. load for 160gr from Nosler data at 60's % load. Need something to fill the case some more.

As some others posted, RE19 and RE22 are great for 270Win and 7mm Mag. Plus, they are easier to measure than IMR 4064.

If you want to stick with IMR powder, try 7828SSC or your 4350.

For 150gr 7mm Mag, I try to get ~3000-3100fps.

For 130gr 270 Win, the same ~3000-3100fps.

Dr. Strangelove · September 2, 2008, 03:17 PM

Yep, I noticed that my shoulder liked these loads much better even if the rifle didn't! I got the 7mm RM 4064 data off the chart that came with my Lee dies, they list all kinds of powders and loads, but I see know why most sources aren't listing IMR 4064, it's just not very efficient. I'm in agreement with your velocities, that's where my barrels seem to perform best, so I think I will try w760 and re22 as you guys have suggested.

By the way, I'm by no means married to IMR powders, just happen to have some old (20+ years) stuff I want to use up before purchasing new. I think back then my reloading shop owner was an staunch IMR man. Been a while since I've been into the loading game, and I notice lots of new powders out there along with the old favorites. Thanks everyone for steering me the right way.

Also a funny aside, Unclenick, my 4064 "metered" perfectly, as I have always just weighed every load. I started loading in high school when "those fancy powder throwers" were just not in the budget and I suppose I just got used to it. That was almost 20 years ago and I really haven't loaded since until very recently. My brother, who now loads with me, almost blew a gasket when he found out how inexpensive they are now as he was loading 60 rounds for his M4 weighing every charge. He was incredulous I had never purchased one...So I think I may see a powder measure appear on the bench in the near future....

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions guys, please keep'em coming if you have any more ideas. I'll post results as available...

Dr. Strangelove · September 2, 2008, 03:24 PM

I noticed on another post you use magnum primers for .270 Win. What's the protocol for load data with that - load down a few grains, or just same-same?

Thanks.

ForneyRider · September 2, 2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Yep, I noticed that my shoulder liked these loads much better even if the rifle didn't! I got the 7mm RM 4064 data off the chart that came with my Lee dies, they list all kinds of powders and loads, but I see know why most sources aren't listing IMR 4064, it's just not very efficient. I'm in agreement with your velocities, that's where my barrels seem to perform best, so I think I will try w760 and re22 as you guys have suggested.

By the way, I'm by no means married to IMR powders, just happen to have some old (20+ years) stuff I want to use up before purchasing new. I think back then my reloading shop owner was an staunch IMR man. Been a while since I've been into the loading game, and I notice lots of new powders out there along with the old favorites. Thanks everyone for steering me the right way.

Also a funny aside, Unclenick, my 4064 "metered" perfectly, as I have always just weighed every load. I started loading in high school when "those fancy powder throwers" were just not in the budget and I suppose I just got used to it. That was almost 20 years ago and I really haven't loaded since until very recently. My brother, who now loads with me, almost blew a gasket when he found out how inexpensive they are now as he was loading 60 rounds for his M4 weighing every charge. He was incredulous I had never purchased one...So I think I may see a powder measure appear on the bench in the near future....

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions guys, please keep'em coming if you have any more ideas. I'll post results as available...

Yea. When I first started last year, I used powder, primers and dies that were 20yo. IMR and Alliant powder in cardboard containers.

HiBC · September 3, 2008, 05:44 AM

I am partial to the Hogdon Extreme series(Varget included) .I use H 4831 and H1000.In 7 Rem. Re 19 and 22 work.The 4831 and Varget cover a lot of bases!

August 24, 2008, 06:35 PM	#1
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Loads for 7mm Rem Mag Varget or IMR 4064? I'm curious about these powders, I just started loading for a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag I've had a few years without shooting it. I had some IMR 4350 I needed to burn up so I loaded a few with 56.4 grs IMR 4350, a CCI 250 large rifle magnum primer and 154 gr Hornady SST's. I ended up with a .411 in 3 shot group at 100yds, just crazy luck I guess. I like that, it will more than likely be my new hunting load, but I'm out of IMR 4350 and wouldn't mind trying the other two powders I mentioned just to see what happens. So anyway, anyone have a 7mm Rem Mag load for 154gr Hornady SST and CCI 250 large rifle magnum primers in Varget or IMR 4064?

August 24, 2008, 07:47 PM	#3
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Just curious re: the powders sitting on my bench. I'll buy a new supply of powder, these have been in storage since 1991 and I just thought I'd burn them up in my rifles rather than just fertilizing the yard with them. The Varget I just bought for a .223 Rem, thought maybe I could get a little scale of efficiency and use the same powder for all. I load .270 Win., .308 Win, .223 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 8mm Mauser. I have always liked the IMR 3031 for .270 Win and it seems to work well for cartridges in that class, but I suppose I will need to change to a dedicated powder for magnum calibers.

August 24, 2008, 08:00 PM	#4
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	RWS primers? I'd like to hear a little more about these, as that tight 7mm group was just a fluke. My .270 Win is capable of ragged hole groups, I've done it in the past, but the 7mm Rem Mag Savage 110 out of the box with factory crap scope shoots .411" with just a random pick from the Hornady book. My question - how much difference does the primer make? From past experience, bullet choice is the best predictor of accuracy.

August 24, 2008, 08:16 PM	#5
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Hey doc; why don't you try some WW 760? You can use it for just about anything within reason, it meters like water, and I've never seen a rifle that wouldn't shoot it well with somebody's bullets. H414 will do if you can't find 760 close by, but most retailers that stock powder will have some. Stay away from the slower WW powders like 785 (discontinued) because they can be quirky in some calibers. I used 760 in my 300 WM, and it shot cloverleafs with the very first load I tried. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

August 26, 2008, 03:37 PM	#8
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	I ran min loads of IMR 3031, IMR 4064, HVarget, and some RL19 with Sierra Pro Hunter 120gr. They shoot great. I was hoping for around 3000fps. The RE19 was a guess, because the min. load was above 3000fps. My idea was to make some light loads and use up the rest of the powder. I used the data off the Hodgdon site. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

August 24, 2008, 07:16 PM	#2
dardascastbullets Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Essexville, MI Posts: 164	May I recommend the Reloader series of powders? Varget will be much too fast and you will not be able to use up the case volume with it resulting in not so promising results. The Reloader series (like Reloader 22) will be much more compatible with your magnum. If you can get your hands on some, buy a 250 pack of RWS primers - you'll be amazed at what they will do for your groups. Matt

August 25, 2008, 08:09 PM	#6
dardascastbullets Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Essexville, MI Posts: 164	The primer can make a great load or an also-ran load. I can only speak of my results with RWS primers. I thought I was shooting good scores (highpower and longrange) until a friend of mine from down-state mentioned if I had ever tried RWS primers. I purchased a brick of 2,500 and was really amazed at the HUGE improvement in SD and the HUGE reduction in group sizes (all documented at that time). Matt

August 25, 2008, 08:12 PM	#7
flyboy14 Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2008 Location: south dakota Posts: 175	don't know about the two powders you listed, I run imr 4831 in my 7mm with good results, also works well in 6mm, 30-06, and 25-06. But you never know with varget, never tried it in my 7mm, but got good groups in one of my 30-06 with it. You never know unless you try it. flyboy

August 27, 2008, 05:30 PM	#9
happy1 Member Join Date: August 9, 2008 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15	I use IMR 4064 fir 7MM Rem with Hornady 120gr VMAX to 175gr Grandslam with good results __________________ The Ugly American

August 31, 2008, 03:11 PM	#10
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	Varget works very well in the .308 with 165 gr bullets.I would guess it is useful for the 8x57.It is a very versitile powder,but the 7 mag is not a round for it.

August 31, 2008, 04:15 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Varget and 4064 are faster than is optimal in the 7 mm Rem. Mag. They will reach full normal pressure with the case only 85% full, which is not best for accuracy. You can try it , though, if you are looking for a mild load. You should find 51 grains of Varget gives similar accuracy to your IMR 4350 load, as will 50.3 grains of IMR 4064. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 31, 2008, 07:22 PM	#12
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	Nosler has IMR4064 listed on their website for the Rem. 7mm Mag. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

September 2, 2008, 09:55 AM	#13
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Report from the range... Thanks everyone, for the well thought out and information filled replies. Unlike a lot of forums, everyone I've run across here (at least in Handloading and Reloading) seems to be interested in passing on good information without being , well, you know how some of the other forums can get. Kind of reminds me of the Big Green Egg forum, good folks there as well. Anyway, I went to the range both Friday and Monday. I had loaded 4 loads .270 and 5 loads 7mm RM 5 rounds each with IMR 4064, unfortunately, upon reaching the range (an hour away) I realized my precious cartridges were sitting on my desk. I did have five rounds of 7mm RM that I had put in an envelope and threw in the range bag because the little red plastic box was full. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I watched my brother shoot some .223 Rem rounds we had loaded and shot the five shot group of 7mm RM 52.0 grs IMR 4064 with the bullets mentioned above. Results were pretty much as you guys suggested, 3.416" group at 100 yds (Hey, I'm honest). Monday's trip went much better, seeing as I had remembered the ammunition, and I shot the rest of my loads both .270 and 7mm RM. Best groups with IMR 4064 were 1.685" 49.0 grs 7mm and 1.364" 47.0 grs .270 Win. These were at 75yds, the maximum distance at Wilson Shoals WMA range, which is a pretty nice little range by the way. Acceptable for hunting, which is what theses two rifles do, but I still like better accuracy. You guys are right, IMR 4064 works well enough, but it's not, at least in my rifle, as accurate as I would like.

September 2, 2008, 12:51 PM	#14
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	You're prolly a few grains off on the IMR4064 and 154gr 7mm Mag load. 49gr is a min. load for 160gr from Nosler data at 60's % load. Need something to fill the case some more. As some others posted, RE19 and RE22 are great for 270Win and 7mm Mag. Plus, they are easier to measure than IMR 4064. If you want to stick with IMR powder, try 7828SSC or your 4350. For 150gr 7mm Mag, I try to get ~3000-3100fps. For 130gr 270 Win, the same ~3000-3100fps. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done. Last edited by ForneyRider; September 2, 2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason: velocity

September 2, 2008, 03:17 PM	#15
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Thanks Fourneyrider! Yep, I noticed that my shoulder liked these loads much better even if the rifle didn't! I got the 7mm RM 4064 data off the chart that came with my Lee dies, they list all kinds of powders and loads, but I see know why most sources aren't listing IMR 4064, it's just not very efficient. I'm in agreement with your velocities, that's where my barrels seem to perform best, so I think I will try w760 and re22 as you guys have suggested. By the way, I'm by no means married to IMR powders, just happen to have some old (20+ years) stuff I want to use up before purchasing new. I think back then my reloading shop owner was an staunch IMR man. Been a while since I've been into the loading game, and I notice lots of new powders out there along with the old favorites. Thanks everyone for steering me the right way. Also a funny aside, Unclenick, my 4064 "metered" perfectly, as I have always just weighed every load. I started loading in high school when "those fancy powder throwers" were just not in the budget and I suppose I just got used to it. That was almost 20 years ago and I really haven't loaded since until very recently. My brother, who now loads with me, almost blew a gasket when he found out how inexpensive they are now as he was loading 60 rounds for his M4 weighing every charge. He was incredulous I had never purchased one...So I think I may see a powder measure appear on the bench in the near future.... Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions guys, please keep'em coming if you have any more ideas. I'll post results as available...

September 2, 2008, 03:24 PM	#16
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	On more question Fourneyrider - I noticed on another post you use magnum primers for .270 Win. What's the protocol for load data with that - load down a few grains, or just same-same? Thanks.

September 3, 2008, 05:44 AM	#18
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	I am partial to the Hogdon Extreme series(Varget included) .I use H 4831 and H1000.In 7 Rem. Re 19 and 22 work.The 4831 and Varget cover a lot of bases!