August 16, 2017, 10:45 AM | #1 |
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Trying New O/U's?
Hi all. After shooting a Silver Pigeon last week I want a new O/U and understand the argument of paying for a better one. I have a Browning BPS that is the only pump gun besides my dad's old Sears 21 that fits me properly. I have heard it said go to a match and try some peoples' out. I have never been to a shotgun match and don't know if I feel comfortable doing that. I have an LGS here where I was able to shoulder many shotguns last night. I tried Citori 725 Sporting Hi and regular rib, Browning Cynergy Sporting, Beretta Silver Pigeon, Benelli etc.
The two that fit me the best were the Hi Rib and reg Citori Sportings. It also seems that I really don't need an adjustable stock as both fit very well albeit the hi rib a little more naturally but only slightly. I have been told the Hi Rib can be an advantage in Trap, but that's about it. I liked the Silver Pigeon too, but like the weight of the Brownings more. I have rarely bought a gun with the try it first idea. I did shoot a Silver Pigeon last week, but never a Browing O/U. That was the first with an O/u. I think I would be perfectly happy with the 725 Sporting reg rib at this time after looking around. I may or may not get into the Clay games with it and will probably dove hunt with it, but I still have my BPS for that. Seems like a great all around O/U which ever way I decide to go. One thing I know, I sure want one. Should I really try some or is the fact that I have the opportunity to shoulder quite a few good enough? |
August 16, 2017, 11:09 AM | #2 |
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In shotgun sports, a "Match" is more often called a "tournament" or a "registered tournament". At those events, especially the larger ones like a State or Regional, there are usually vendors who will let you try guns they want to sell.
To try regular folks' guns, go to your local gun club on a normal day. Make friends, explain what you are trying to do. If I didn't say this in your previous thread, here is a good way to do it: Buy a flat (10 boxes) of GOOD ammo. In 12 or 20, that typically means Winchester AA (ONLY their AA), or the Remington Nitro or STS. Once you have made some contacts with folks who have guns you want to try; ask them if they would mind if you shot a round of trap/skeet/whatever and as a thanks, give them a box of that ammo. Yes, that ammo will cost about $8-$9/box; but if you are about to drop $1800+, it makes sense to spend a little up front on ammo before you buy a gun that just doesn't work for YOU. Beretta and Browning make what most consider the best introductory "quality level" O/U guns. They are sturdy, reliable, last a long time. That said, they are different when it comes to fit, and if one fits you well, odds are the other will not. Not a bad thing, just different. As you go higher up the price chain, you'll start to notice certain things are better made, and it isn't just about the machine/laser engraving. Triggers get a little crisper, barrel swing dynamics get a little smoother, etc. At the top of the better target production guns like Kolar, Kreighoff and Perazzi, wood, and custom options start to come into the picture. All of that is nice, but out of your league for the moment. HOWEVER, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't take an opportunity to at least shoulder or fire a few rounds through those if you get the chance. That will let you start to build a library in your memory of certain features and aspects that you both like and do not so as you refine your search further, you may start to change your direction in which gun to go with (or, like most of us, you start to add new ones as time and budgets allow). If I hit the Lotto, I already KNOW what I am going to treat myself to. That comes from shooting with folks who already have some of my wish-list guns and let me shoot them. Some weren't as great as I previously thought, some were even better. Much like test driving a car, it might look awesome, have a lot of cool features, but until you sit in it and give the "butt-test" for comfort and handling, you just don't know. Good luck in your quest!
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August 16, 2017, 12:04 PM | #3 |
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Can an average person really tell if a gun fits by shouldering it in a store?
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August 16, 2017, 12:26 PM | #4 | |
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August 16, 2017, 02:12 PM | #5 |
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A big plus 1...to FITASC and NoSecondBest's comments.../ I agree with both.
Once you find a gun that "Fits" so it hits where you look...it will mean you understand the stock dimensions that work for you. I'm a big Browning O/U fan...but only 3 or 4 of their models will "Fit" me properly. I learned over time - I need a gun with a parallel comb ( parallel to the rib / none of the angled comb guns fit me !! )..and I learned what my length of pull needs to be...and how the weight and balance need to be for a general purpose gun ( for upland birds, Skeet, Sporting Clays and 5 Stand )....and what I need in a dedicated "Trap" gun ( which for me is a parallel comb - and a heavier gun and longer ).. You can't determine any of that in a store...shouldering a gun / without the experience above. Last edited by BigJimP; August 16, 2017 at 02:24 PM. |
August 16, 2017, 03:21 PM | #6 |
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Well crap. How do I seek someone like that out? I certainly don't want to make a $3000 mistake. I suppose in my layman's terms I mean one fits when I mount it and can look straight down the rip with no adjustments on my part. I guess there is more to it? Would getting an adjustable comb make that a less expensive process in the long run (rather than buying a gun and having it fit)?
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August 16, 2017, 04:36 PM | #7 |
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Shooting them first to see which ones are close would be the way to start. Don't force a square peg in a round hole by predetermining which brand you want.
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August 16, 2017, 04:49 PM | #8 |
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If you go to a club that does a lot of sporting clays shooting you can ask some of the more experienced/knowledgeable shooters where there is a gunsmith or store that sells better shotguns and can help you get fitted. They might recommend someone who teaches proper shooting who can assist you. The real key here is to go and ask for help at the right place. I don't know who's in your area, but I'm sure there's one or two pro's who can help you out. I think the National Sporting Clays Assoc. used to have a list for who's where and what they do. Maybe FITASC can suggest someone. He's more up to date on this stuff than I am.
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August 16, 2017, 05:00 PM | #9 |
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I am in Wilmington NC
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August 16, 2017, 06:07 PM | #10 |
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https://www.deepriver.net/
http://www.forkstables.com/instructions/ http://www.claytargetsonline.com/north-carolina-2/ Start with some of these. Don't spend the money on a gun before you call and ask for some help. You simply can't believe how willing most shooters and clubs are to get you started the right way. They want you to succeed and keep coming back while enjoying the sport. Good luck. |
August 16, 2017, 06:47 PM | #11 |
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2 guns that I have found that will fit at least 90% of shooters...is a Browning Citori 725 Skeet with an adj comb ....or the older model Citori XS Skeet with the adj comb...either one with 30" barrels....
Both of those guns have parallel adj combs / stay with a 12ga. Many of the angled comb guns, even with adj combs are difficult to fit many shooters. You will see a lot of both models ...on Skeet and Sporting Clays fields. Its still pretty easy to find the discontinued XS Skeet ...but do not go without the adj comb ( it can be put in after market by an experienced stock fitting shop)...but keep it simple, go with the factory model. If for some reason you don't like either gun...both models are easy to sell. Skeet / Sporting clays shooters have a lot of guns ( I have 5 of the XS Skeet models...all 30 " barrels, 2 in 12ga, 1 each in 20ga, 28ga and .410...( but I'm an addict )..../ ...and you will probably find a lot of shooters like me in your area that might sell a gun...if someone really wanted it at a fair price A trip to a large dealer with a good reputation...like Joel Etchen may be worthwhile - but there are others on the east coast as well. Last edited by BigJimP; August 16, 2017 at 07:52 PM. |
August 16, 2017, 09:26 PM | #12 |
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I bought a 725 Sporting gun last year. I was lucky to get to try one at our local club. Had to have it and I found that I did not need the adjustable comb on the stock. I also have an XS Skeet but needed the adjustable comb on it. I like the 725 better than the XS but both are great guns, I don't think you would be unhappy with it.
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August 16, 2017, 10:47 PM | #13 |
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Just be aware the 725 sporting...and the 725 Skeet ...have very different stocks on them from a comb perspective ( it is very unlikely they will both fit one shooter )/ and very different forends...( I like the semi beavertail a lot / the other forend is not comfortable in my hands...but that is a secondary issue).
Mechanically they are the same ...in terms of triggers, lock up, etc... .But as good as the 3 or 4 Sporting versions look, to me personally, they would be a terrible investment because I know the angled combs would not fit me...the angled comb will beat me up because the angle tends to push the meat, in my face, into my cheek bone ....and the angle changes the muzzle position up or down depending on where you are on the angle - so it won't hit where I look. In the 50's & 60's when I grew up...all shotguns in my family had angled combs. My grandpa's Citori ( grouse gun )...happened to fit me just right with a wool sweater on & my vest...and I killed a lot of grouse / but that old " duck gun" ....didn't fit me and I could't hit a large bull in the butt with it at 25 yds ( different clothing - heavy coat...and different angled combs...)...it did not shoot where I looked. Of course I learned all this " fit " stuff way later...when I got around serious skeet shooters...in the late 80's ....and boy did my scores in sporting, skeet & trap go way up...my confidence improved..and my wing shooting got way better...it was an expensive lesson. Last edited by BigJimP; August 16, 2017 at 11:26 PM. |
August 17, 2017, 10:48 AM | #14 |
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Thank you very much for all of your input everyone. I am 5 8 and 160 lb my wingspan is probably close to my height I guess normal anyway. I don't know if I fit into that 90%. My real goal of this is like the last post to become a better wingshooter. I do not think I will ever get more than one quality over under as am not a rich man and at best a casual clay games participant, but I do want a quality over under. Likely this will be my only over under of that kind of investment.
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August 17, 2017, 12:06 PM | #15 |
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All the more critical that you understand and investigate the concept of "fit"...so you don't make a bad investment.
Good luck / and make sure you have fun in your search. ( I had a pair of BPS's as well - bought new in late 70's I think...both 28" barrels, Hunter models, one in 12ga and one in a 20ga...and they are now passed down to my oldest son - and my 2 grandkids that are 13 and 15../ they will continue to get a lot of use out of that pair of guns. I killed a lot of birds with them / angled combs and all / and to make them fit me --I put a pad on top of the comb ..that leveled out the comb so they would hit where I look ). So there are options. My primary upland bird guns now ...are the Citori, XS Skeet models, 30" barrels...12ga at 8 1/2 lbs / the 20ga and 28ga and .410 were all built by Browning on the 20ga receiver....so out of box they are 7 1/2 lb guns...so I add 8 oz under forend and 8 oz inside stock ...to get them up to 8 1/2 lbs so they swing and feel the same as my 12ga version. Depending on what I'm hunting ...I will use the 12ga ...or the 28ga 99% of the time...in the field. Your best value by far - in this discussion in my view...is to look for a clean but used Citori XS Skeet in 12ga with the adj comb. Its a great gun --- will last you well into a million shells if you take care of it ...somewhere in the Atlantic Coastal area where you live -- there has to be some on the used market. Browning, I think, made that model for at least 15 yrs...and they sold a lot of them... The biggest reason Browning brought the new 725 series out ...was one, to sell more guns ...something new / but the biggest change was the change to mechanical triggers over inertia triggers. It makes no difference to most shooters....but if you "tube" the gun down the road, with Briley full length tubes ( say 28 ga tubes, in a 12ga gun.../ then you don't have to pay Briley to convert the trigger from Inertia to Mechanical ). |
August 17, 2017, 12:33 PM | #16 |
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I'm with BigJimP regarding Brownings. I'd only suggest you just go to the 725 to start. I liked that gun better than any other gun I owned, even the Beretta's that cost more money. It just worked for me.
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August 17, 2017, 12:39 PM | #17 | |
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August 17, 2017, 02:06 PM | #18 | |
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August 17, 2017, 02:25 PM | #19 |
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Yes, I'm big on Browning...but I'm not saying Beretta doesn't make a fine gun.
Berettas guns tend to fit similar to the Browning Cynergy line of guns in my view...they tend to be slimmer in the "throat" or grip area on the shotgun...and that suits a lot of folks like FITASC better than a lot of the Brownings. OP may find that the Beretta suits him a lot better... ( I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs...and I think he said he's about 5'8" and 160...) so depending on the size of his hands.../ I think FITASC brought up that Beretta and Browning fit people differently. I'm just trying to point out where I think the best value is ....not that the 725 Skeet isn't a fine gun... list on the 725 Skeet with Adj comb is $ 3,530 and one shop in my area is selling it new in box for about $3,200 plus tax... |
August 17, 2017, 02:35 PM | #20 | |
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August 17, 2017, 08:01 PM | #21 |
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One can always add an adjustable comb if the gun needs it. I needed it on the XS, not on the 725 Sporting. Fit is totally different. Also, it doesn't kick my face off like some guns do.
Try and find a range that rents guns and try and find something that fits. |
August 18, 2017, 12:36 PM | #22 |
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If you need an adjustable comb, you might be better off with the factory AC on a Browning. If you go with an after market, have the work done by someone with a strong reputation. Perhaps Tron or Doug Carpenter on SGW. Some don't like the standard Browning AC because they say it doesn't hold its adjustment well enough. I don't know if that is so. I have a buddy with a fairly new 725 Sporting with a factory AC. After reading what Pete wrote I will have to give it a try. My XS shoots dead on for him.
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August 18, 2017, 04:46 PM | #23 |
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I don,t like the small peg,s on my AC on my XS 20ga and am going to have larger one,s put in. I like the large pegs on my BT-100 12ga. eastbank.
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August 19, 2017, 06:20 PM | #24 |
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Eastbank, Are you talking about the pegs on factory adjustable combs? Mine isn't factory but Graco hardware. I once thought of getting taller pegs for it.
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August 21, 2017, 05:26 AM | #25 |
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OP here: I have also discovered SKB's. I am thinking of getting a used gun as a starter and I know about the Brownings, Beretta's etc. I also see that the Japanese SKB's are highly regarded. I am reading that they are serviceable and parts are available. Can anyone confirm this and does this seem like a viable option?
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