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Old August 23, 2013, 12:32 AM   #1
Nato
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First post - Looking for some insight from experienced indivudals

Hey guys, i'm new to this forum so i'm sure i'm re-asking a lot of questions that have been answered but i'm looking for some insight on some options for a new rifle from some people that have actually owned or gone through this process themselves as I am new to the area of rifles(always been a shotgun guy).

I currently own a remington 700 in 308 with a tac21 chassis on it. Obviously the chassis is complete overkill and not "practical" in any means other than the detachable stock and magazine system.

Recently I had an offer from someone to purchase this rifle so i'm selling it and looking to build a new rifle witha heavy barrel vs the sporter barrel I had on my current 308.

This is the rifle I found locally that I was planning on purchasing:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...s-varmint.aspx

My current debate is first off caliber. As I said above I have been using 308 and have some stock piled, but I was looking into 30-06 and 300 win mag as both fo these calibers are available locally. I was wondering what the comparisons are on these rifles with barrel life, recoil, and how well they would function for my purposes.

The rifle would be used for some friendly competition shooting(me and some army buddies), hunting, and just general fun. It doesn't need to be able to hit something at 1500 yards but it would be nice to be semi reliable around the 800yard range.

Obviously 30-06 is a popular hunting caliber which is why the ammo is so common here but i'm wondering how much more recoil there would be for general shooting purposes. I know this varies on rifle weight and bullet type so that brings us to the third part.

The ammo will likely be 180gr from the local store as for the chassis I have found plenty that work with a remington 700 in 308, or 300 win mag but none that are compatible with a 30-06. Has anyone come accrost any chassis systems that adapt to a 30-06 action or can a 300 win mag be modified to accept 30-06 and how hard is the modification?

Lastly just some general info for the rifle, like I said it's hunting, friendly shooting competition and fun. I am not completely opposed to a regular stock like the bell and carlson stocks, they look nice, they are functional, and they don't cost a fortune. I do however have a little spot in my heart for a gun that just makes people stare when you open the case.

Here are some links to the current setup, like I said it's overkill for what I do but it's a blast to shoot and I can fire it all day without feeling a thing.

http://imgur.com/a/WbPd0 - Current 308 setup.

The main gripe I have with this setup is the stock being removable and the barrel. It's handy to have one that is removable but it's also a pain from time to time with it coming lose and wanting to fall free when I remove my sholder from the gun(the main flaw in this chassis in my oppinion). But the up side is the magazines and the weight(less felt recoil and easier to hold on target when not free handing the rifle).

And since you were so kind to read to the end here is some other gun **** of my recently purchased AR-15 after a few modifications.

http://i.imgur.com/mWSEKgp.jpg - AR 15.

And if you are still reading I have found a few 308 chassis that I was checking out, the AICS 1.5/2.0 and the AICS AX. I've also been peaking at the XLR Evolution chassis, does anyone own any of these and if so do they have any input as to flaws and perks of using these chassis?

Looking forward to any help anyone can provide as this is still a new area for me and I don't want to have any regrets with the rifle once it's built.
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Old August 23, 2013, 04:01 AM   #2
Rikakiah
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I'm no expert on everything you're wanting, but I used to own a Rem 700 PSS in .308, and it was a great platform. The SPS you're looking at is probably just as solid, as I've not heard anything bad about them.

As for caliber and what you're wanting, I'm pretty sure the .308 has better ballistics than a 30-06. Especially back when I got my PSS, the 30-06 was pretty much a deer round while there was a plethora of .308 choices developed specifically for long range accuracy. Don't know where the .300 win mag stacks up, though.
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Old August 23, 2013, 06:43 AM   #3
Revoltella
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You don't mention what you want to hunt, but if you're looking to shoot out to 800 yards, you might also want to consider 7mm-08. It's flatter shooting at longer distances than .308, and will harvest deer with the best of them.

It also has a little less recoil than the .308.
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Old August 23, 2013, 07:33 AM   #4
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I'll address the 300WM to 30/06 question first, NO it would not be feasible to "convert" a 300 mag to 30/06. Chamber, boltface, feed lips, and magazine would all need modification-basically keep the stock and change everything else.
Not quite sure of your intentions. You had a Remington 700 based .308 but are selling it so that platform must not have been acceptable??
Heavy barrel and hunting(other than varmints) are not the most compatible although I use HB rifles to hunt deer from a stand on occasion.
800 yards is a pretty fair poke for most hunting rifles regardless of cartridge-I have some 800 yard capable rifles but you wouldn't want to pack them up a mountain. I took a 10 pound 300 Win mag target rifle elk hunting once and it even made the horse tired packing it-but it did put a first round hit on an elk at 500+ yards.
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Old August 23, 2013, 01:09 PM   #5
Nato
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Thanks to all for the feedback so far.

I don't mind 308, the setup I have right now works pretty well minus the sporter barrel and the stock adapter for the chassis. My reasoning for range is one of my older friends wants me to start going Antelope hunting with him and i've heard those shots get a bit lengthy. I don't mind the extra weight while packing it around, i'd rather have the heavy barrel.

So basically i'm looking to simplify my current setup without sacrificing any acuraccy.

I'd like to find a simple chassis like the AICS 1.5 that's somewhat heavy, but dead on accurate AND I'd like to retain the ability to use my 10 round 308 mags.

Then again maybe having a hinged floor plate wouldn't be that bad, I never really gave it a chance with my first rifle, dropped it into a chassis right away, besides how many times while hunting am I going to NEED more than 5 rounds? Guess the magazines only come in handy at the range.

From what i'm getting back it's narrowed to 308 as 30-06 doesn't offer enough of an advantage and would require extensive modification, and 300 win mag is just overkill and not fun to shoot all day long at the range.
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Old August 23, 2013, 06:46 PM   #6
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1. Unless you have a lot more money than you need the 300 Win Mag is a short lived barrel eater from hell.

2. If you want a magnum get a magnum. If you want a 30.06 get a 30.06. Things changed back and forth are gonna require another 350.00 in tooling to change the barrels etc. Plus you are gonna have to get a bolt for mag and 06 as they are different and costly

3. I would get a 30.06 built with a medium heavy barrel. They are fine to 1000 yards any day.

4. You are not likely to find store bought ammo that will shoot anywhere as good as handloads.

You might take a look at a Tikka T3 varmint barrel. I just got one in stainless 06.

If you find a Mod 70 Win, they are the easiest to rebarrel in the post 64s.

If you handload 30 cal and are going to shoot long range go with Sierra 175MKs regardless of caliber. they do real well if you do your part loading them.
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Old August 23, 2013, 09:21 PM   #7
Nato
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I am going to stick with 308 for the sake of not changing up ammo and experience. Reloading is on the menu further down the road but not quite yet. I am thinking about buying the sps varmint with the 26" heavy barrel as it seems like a rock solid platform. Question is how far is that injection molded stock good for? If its not going to give me very good accuracy then ill drop it into an XLR or AICS chassis and regain my 10 round mag usability.
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Old August 24, 2013, 02:05 AM   #8
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I'm in agreement with most everyone else. If you want to upgrade, get a 300WM no use going from 308 to 30-06.

As for the choice of the 700 sps varmint in 308, what can I say, I own one. Great platform but you will immediately find out SPS stands for S***y Plastic Stock. Other than that, it's a great rifle.
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Old August 24, 2013, 03:08 AM   #9
Nato
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Heh that's what I figured. Ill just drop it into an acis or ax or xlr. No idea which and they all have their perks.
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Old August 24, 2013, 10:14 AM   #10
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Consider the Rem 700 Milspec 5R or the Target Tactical.
They feature the 5R rifled barrels- same as used in the M24 SWS rifles issued to the military.
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Old August 25, 2013, 09:31 PM   #11
Nato
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One last question, if I have a remington 700 action is it cheaper to buy a new action with a heavy barrel or have the current action re barreled?

And if its cheaper to re barrel are the barrels really that much better and what brands would you recommend?
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Old August 26, 2013, 06:40 AM   #12
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If a stiff action's important, the Win. 70's are near three times stiffer than the Rem. 700's. They're also flat on most bedding surfaces; they stay put better from barrel torque firing heavy bullets.

Those 5R barrels in the M24 may not be the same ones used in the commercial version. According to MIL-R-71126(AR), the M24 shall achieve the accuracy results stated below when using M118 Special Ball and fired from a Government approved machine rest. The average mean radius, calculated using 5 targets of 10 shots each, shall be less than or equal to the following values:

200 yards (182.9 m): 2.6 inches (1.242 MOA)
200 metres (218.7 yd): 2.8 inches (1.223 MOA)
300 yards (274.3 m): 3.8 inches (1.146 MOA)

Which means the extreme spread of those specs is 1.5 times bigger; 3.9 inches at 200 yards, for example.
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Last edited by Bart B.; August 26, 2013 at 06:46 AM.
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:28 AM   #13
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I just recently bought a remington 700 5R milspec in .308. I love it. I also put a vortex viper PST 6-24x50 on top for glass. For under $2,000.00 I have a set up that will hang with most any custom rifles in terms of accuracy. The only problem with the rifle is that it shoots far better than I can. The longest distance I have gone with the rifle is 400 yards and I was able to keep my groups right around 3-4 inches. I am not particularly found of the palm swell on the stock but I can change that as funds allow. From the factory it is a great shooter and not to heavy to climb in a deer stand from time to time.
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Old August 26, 2013, 09:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
The main gripe I have with this setup is the stock being removable and the barrel. It's handy to have one that is removable but it's also a pain from time to time with it coming lose and wanting to fall free when I remove my sholder from the gun(the main flaw in this chassis in my oppinion). But the up side is the magazines and the weight(less felt recoil and easier to hold on target when not free handing the rifle).
It's so TactiCool as to be un-usable ........
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Those 5R barrels in the M24 may not be the same ones used in the commercial version.
You are correct- I should have been more specific; I was referring to the 5R rifling, not the barrels themselves. The Target Tactical actually uses the VTR (triangular) barrel which obviously ain't the M24- but does have the 5R rifling.

I did "read" somewhere though, that the Milspec 5R barrels were produced for the M24, but in some area failed (by minutiae, I'd guess) to meet the standard and were culled to the production rifles. True or not, dunno...
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Old August 27, 2013, 06:08 AM   #16
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Note that 5R rifling style came to popularity in the USA when Obermeyer barrels started using it. Boots Obermeyer made them first in his 28 caliber match barrels that were chambered for the 7mm Rem Mag round. Sierra's 168-gr. 7mm HPMK bullet that set a 1000 yard record at the 1970 Nationals became "the" bullet to shoot in such matches from 7mm Rem Mags. But their jackets were thin enough that conventional rifling engraving them weakened the jacket. Some came apart spinning at high speed (240,000 rpm) due to centrifugal forces being too much. That 5R rifling style didn't weaken those thin jackets and that solved the problem. Some years later, when Sierra got different jacket material, conventional rifling didn't cause problems with their thinner jackets.

There is no accuracy difference between equal quality barrels with conventional or 5R rifling. But some folks think there is. Few benchrest rifles use 5R rifled barrels.
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Old August 27, 2013, 06:23 PM   #17
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More accurate, perhaps not. Another hotly debated topic.
But the opposing lands and grooves "supposedly" result in less bullet deformation for some FMJ's, better gas seal, and less fouling.

At least that's what the proponents say. My guess is the U.S. military must have some proof-positive reasoning behind it's selection for the M24, other than a successful sales job by Rem. Perhaps it's mostly related to the bullet profile used by that weapon system (?)
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Old August 30, 2013, 06:02 PM   #18
Nato
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Ok i've narrowed it to a few different choices, looking for some input from anyone that has held one of these stocks/chassis or has some insight on them.

Option 1: XLR Tactical Evolution Chassis - $790
http://8541tactical.com/images/XLR/XLR_8007.jpg
Weight: 3 lbs. 13 ounces

Option 2: AICS 1.5(I don't need a folding stock) - $890
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/.../aics700-1.jpg
Weight: 5.55

I know the AICS stocks are very popular but my thought is what makes it so much better than the LXR?? Both have fully adjustable stocks, both have folding stocks available as an option. The XLR is much lighter yet just as solid. Has anyone been able to hold either of these in their hands and if so what did you think of them?

Really thinking about the XLR as it's lighter, cheaper, and still looks "tacticool".


And as a sub question, fluted barrel or regular?

Locally I have two choices available, both 26" and heavy contour. One is the regular varmit barrel the other is stanless and fluted.

What are the pros and cons of a fluted barrel, I get that it reduces weight but does it decrease stiffness and how does it affect heat dissipation?

Last edited by Nato; August 30, 2013 at 06:11 PM.
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