Hunting Bullet Velocity

dts686 · August 2, 2010, 07:34 PM

Is it true that for hunting you want your bullet velocity to be at least 2,700 feet per second? I would think that's muzzle velocity. What do you think?

TXGunNut · August 2, 2010, 07:40 PM

If that were true we couldn't consider the 30-30 or 45-70 or dozens of other cartridges adequate hunting cartridges. What cartridge did you have in mind?

farmerboy · August 2, 2010, 08:59 PM

If its true, Me and a million others have been doing it wrong for ever. My 30-30 that I started with doesnt put out like that and I know my compound, crossbow or even my recurve bow cany get arrows to fly at those speeds

ligonierbill · August 2, 2010, 09:32 PM

Kinda depends on the bore size and how far you want to shoot. I am hard pressed to get 2,700 fps (more like 2,600) out of my 6.5x55 with 140 grain bullets, but I am confident in it to 300 yards on deer and such. My .338 Win Mag sends a 250 grain bullet right at 2,700, and it will reach a long, long way for big critters. As others have noted, a 30-30 at, what, 2,200 fps has brought down countless game animals. On the other hand, a 6 mm bullet at that velocity would be pretty weak. As usual in shooting "it depends..."

Brian Pfleuger · August 2, 2010, 09:47 PM

I believe that the theory would be that 2700 fps is the velocity required to produce hydrostatic shock and drop and animal instantly even without a central nervous system hit.

Real life is more complicated than that and if you* can't track an animal that has a hole in both lungs and/or the heart from a well placed shot and will probably not go 100 yards, well, you might want to take up knitting or something.

* You, generic, not "you" the OP or anyone else specifically in this thread.

Jim243 · August 2, 2010, 10:32 PM

The answer lies in how much energy the bullet has at time of impact. Will it penetrate and does it still have enough energy to mushroom.

This will depend on how far the distance is between the shooter and the animal and at what speed the bullet is traveling at the time it hits.

A 25 yard shot with a 60 poumd hunting bow using a 105 grain hunting head will be sufficient to take down a 200 lb Whitetail. But at 50 to 75 yards that same arrow could just bounce off.

A heavier slower moving bullet 180 grain (30-30) will retain enough of it's energy to reach out 150 yards and do the job so you will see loads at 2,400 fps for hunting. If however at distances of 250 yards and beyond you will see recommendations to use faster bullets like the 130 grain 270 starting out at 2,900 fps or a 7mm rem mag going even faster.

So the fps will be dependent on the size of the animal, the distance, the weight of the bullet and the energy it has at the time it hits.

Good shooting
Jim

Loader9 · August 2, 2010, 10:39 PM

Ackley said to have good terminal performance you needed 1200 ft lbs of energy at the target animal for a reliable kill. I've found that most of the lighter calibers like 6mm and 22 calibers never really generate that much energy but can kill reliably none the less, depending on the size of the animal. I'd hate to go bear or moose hunting with a 243 regardless of bullet construction. So there's really no one caliber or cartridge that kills everything at all distances. It still boils down to the application and using enough rifle to do the job. You can have far too little gun but I've never seen a situation where you had too much rifle....of course, I've been known to turtle hunt with a 458 magnum.

COSteve · August 2, 2010, 11:05 PM

The problem with Ackley's assertion of a min of 1,200lb/ft ME at the target is that it's a 'one size fits all' approach and as such more often wrong that not. You see, animals don't have the same hide thickness, fat, muscle mass, etc. For example, with a light skinned, lightly muscled, thin bodied Cheetah it's probably overkill while with a thick skinned, heavily muscled, thick bodied Rino it's probably not enough.

Crankylove · August 3, 2010, 12:26 AM

All depends on the caliber, as stated already.

My .358 Winchester squeezes out about 2,250 fps with a 250 grain bullet, but I bet the animals I shoot with it don't care much about the velocity.

dts686 · August 3, 2010, 08:00 AM

I really appreciate the useful information! It's really great to be able to r3ead something and then check them out with you and get the real deal! I hope to have a 30-06 by next year.!

Thanks again!
David

August 2, 2010, 07:34 PM	#1
dts686 Member Join Date: March 25, 2010 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 73	Hunting Bullet Velocity Is it true that for hunting you want your bullet velocity to be at least 2,700 feet per second? I would think that's muzzle velocity. What do you think?

August 2, 2010, 07:40 PM	#2
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	If that were true we couldn't consider the 30-30 or 45-70 or dozens of other cartridges adequate hunting cartridges. What cartridge did you have in mind? __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

August 2, 2010, 09:47 PM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I believe that the theory would be that 2700 fps is the velocity required to produce hydrostatic shock and drop and animal instantly even without a central nervous system hit. Real life is more complicated than that and if you* can't track an animal that has a hole in both lungs and/or the heart from a well placed shot and will probably not go 100 yards, well, you might want to take up knitting or something. * You, generic, not "you" the OP or anyone else specifically in this thread. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 3, 2010, 12:26 AM	#9
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	All depends on the caliber, as stated already. My .358 Winchester squeezes out about 2,250 fps with a 250 grain bullet, but I bet the animals I shoot with it don't care much about the velocity. __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

August 3, 2010, 08:00 AM	#10
dts686 Member Join Date: March 25, 2010 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 73	Many Thanks! I really appreciate the useful information! It's really great to be able to r3ead something and then check them out with you and get the real deal! I hope to have a 30-06 by next year.! Thanks again! David

August 2, 2010, 08:59 PM	#3
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	If its true, Me and a million others have been doing it wrong for ever. My 30-30 that I started with doesnt put out like that and I know my compound, crossbow or even my recurve bow cany get arrows to fly at those speeds

August 2, 2010, 09:32 PM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Kinda depends on the bore size and how far you want to shoot. I am hard pressed to get 2,700 fps (more like 2,600) out of my 6.5x55 with 140 grain bullets, but I am confident in it to 300 yards on deer and such. My .338 Win Mag sends a 250 grain bullet right at 2,700, and it will reach a long, long way for big critters. As others have noted, a 30-30 at, what, 2,200 fps has brought down countless game animals. On the other hand, a 6 mm bullet at that velocity would be pretty weak. As usual in shooting "it depends..."

August 2, 2010, 10:32 PM	#6
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	The answer lies in how much energy the bullet has at time of impact. Will it penetrate and does it still have enough energy to mushroom. This will depend on how far the distance is between the shooter and the animal and at what speed the bullet is traveling at the time it hits. A 25 yard shot with a 60 poumd hunting bow using a 105 grain hunting head will be sufficient to take down a 200 lb Whitetail. But at 50 to 75 yards that same arrow could just bounce off. A heavier slower moving bullet 180 grain (30-30) will retain enough of it's energy to reach out 150 yards and do the job so you will see loads at 2,400 fps for hunting. If however at distances of 250 yards and beyond you will see recommendations to use faster bullets like the 130 grain 270 starting out at 2,900 fps or a 7mm rem mag going even faster. So the fps will be dependent on the size of the animal, the distance, the weight of the bullet and the energy it has at the time it hits. Good shooting Jim

August 2, 2010, 10:39 PM	#7
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	Ackley said to have good terminal performance you needed 1200 ft lbs of energy at the target animal for a reliable kill. I've found that most of the lighter calibers like 6mm and 22 calibers never really generate that much energy but can kill reliably none the less, depending on the size of the animal. I'd hate to go bear or moose hunting with a 243 regardless of bullet construction. So there's really no one caliber or cartridge that kills everything at all distances. It still boils down to the application and using enough rifle to do the job. You can have far too little gun but I've never seen a situation where you had too much rifle....of course, I've been known to turtle hunt with a 458 magnum.

August 2, 2010, 11:05 PM	#8
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	The problem with Ackley's assertion of a min of 1,200lb/ft ME at the target is that it's a 'one size fits all' approach and as such more often wrong that not. You see, animals don't have the same hide thickness, fat, muscle mass, etc. For example, with a light skinned, lightly muscled, thin bodied Cheetah it's probably overkill while with a thick skinned, heavily muscled, thick bodied Rino it's probably not enough.