Sig Sauer P220 vs Quality 1911 - Page 2

rock185 · October 7, 2017, 03:10 PM

Hello Joe_Pike, I consider myself to be a 1911 guy. That being said, I've owned several P220 variations over the last ~25 years and was a LE armorer for SIG and other manufactuer's firearms. One thing my P220s all had in common, was flawless reliability with any appropriate ammunition. Nothing ever broke, and accuracy was as least as good as, or better than, any other service style pistol I owned. Having used both P220s, and various manufactuer's 1911 type pistols, right out of the box I would trust the P220 more than a 1911 type to function as it should. Not something I heard on the internet, personal experience. BTW, the P220s were not designed to function with SWC bullets. I don't consider this to be a negative. Still have one P220, an older German manufactur 9MM. Goes bang every time, and doesn't suffer any deficiency in accuracy.

Some of the stainless slide/internal extractor guns were reported to have extraction problems. One of my coworkers started carrying a P220 after his Glock Ka-Boomed during training one night. It was one of those guns with an extraction issue. None of my SIGs, or those of my other coworkers, suffered extraction issues. But this one did. To my knowledge, Sig never admitted a problem, but current P220s utilize a different, external, extractor. I prefer the older generation of German guns, but consider the P220s whether German or American manufacture, to be very good pistols.

Model12Win · October 7, 2017, 06:01 PM

I really like mine:

Bilbo463 · October 7, 2017, 06:55 PM

One topic I didn't see mentioned is trigger reach and hand size. The Sig P220 being a single stack has one of the shortest trigger reaches in their line of da/sa handguns. Having said that, the reach to the trigger is still longer than that on a 1911 with a long trigger. If you can hold the pistol, it would be a good idea to do so to make sure you have a good fit.

I used to have several Sigs, but sold them all and went with mostly single action pistols (i.e. 1911's, hi powers and cz's with manual safeties. I found to my dismay that I just could not master the da/sa transition when I shot pistols with other types of actions. To me, a SA pistol with manual safety works best.

I never had any malfunctions with any of my Sigs, they are quality handguns.

Troy800 · October 7, 2017, 08:52 PM

Both are great guns. Very different triggers. I own both and each has pros and cons. I always use my sigs for defense but only because that is what i have shot for 30 years. I plink, practice with a DA/SA. In a high stress situation you will resort to how you train.

Another reason i use Sigs is they need no work to be absolutly reliable. I will never modify, tinker or change anything on a defensive weapon except grips and sights for liability reasons.

If you want a defense weapon that is accurate and reliable right out of the box then go with the P220. Not many after market parts available but none is needed for a defense weapon. It just works. It is simple, very easy to field strip and clean, no safey to forget. The DA trigger is a 10 lb long pull but you will not accidentilly discharge. SA is 4 lb with a short reset. You can get the 220 in SAO if you do not like the DA/SA trigger.

If you like to tinker and upgrade your weapon then go with the 1911. They have great triggers and tons of aftermarket parts. With some work yourself or some extra money for quality 1911s they are very accurate and make great target guns. Great defense guns if you put in the practice with the safety (I have not). I have a Dan Wesson 1911 and is a beautiful gun and shoots like a dream. But is it fair to compair a $1700 1911 to a $800 sig.

I would trust both with my life but will personally choose the Sig every time for a defensive gun. But I love shooting my Dan Wesson.

hemiram · October 8, 2017, 03:09 AM

I would take a P220 over any 1911. It's not even a close call. There is something in the way the 1911's grip is shaped that just feels wrong to me. On top of that, a trade in $4-500 P220 is probably going to be nicer than a new $4-500 1911. I paid $400 for mine, and it's almost in perfect condition.

Model12Win · October 8, 2017, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemiram

I would take a P220 over any 1911. It's not even a close call. There is something in the way the 1911's grip is shaped that just feels wrong to me. On top of that, a trade in $4-500 P220 is probably going to be nicer than a new $4-500 1911. I paid $400 for mine, and it's almost in perfect condition.

I agree. The one in post #28 is a trade in.

tipoc · October 8, 2017, 10:15 PM

I've owned a couple of P220's over the years. One in 38 Super and one in 45 acp. Excellent guns by all measures. Really.

Get one or two. As a few years go by try the CZ97. The biggest issue with that excellent gun is the long reach to the trigger and that can be improved on.

tipoc

rodfac · October 9, 2017, 09:00 AM

Right out of the box, I'd guess that you'd have a better chance of an accurate, well made gun by going to the Sig P220. I've owned 1911's for right at 50 years now, including a couple of Gold Cups from the 70's, and two Ruger SR 1911's in the last 5-6 years. But the Sig's, all six of them that I've owned in the last decade all came with superb fit and finish, and as accurate as my cherished 1911's.

If the operating system, grip feel, and trigger appeal to you, the Sig line makes sense. They're not cheap, but they are universally good out of the box and backed up by a great customer service dept.

As an alternate idea: Sig makes great 1911's too. I have a Sig 1911 RCS that's my hands down pick for CC use: alloy frame, Officer's model grip length, tritium night sights, 4" barrel and a match trigger & bbl. It's the best of my .45's and a daily companion here on the farm. Sig doesn't make them any more, but they're readily available on gunbroker.

HTH's Rod

bandanabandit1 · October 10, 2017, 07:18 PM

All comes down to preference, both pistols are absolutely capable. The sig has the fatter grip and the DA/SA trigger (most of the time) and the 1911 has the single action pull.

Get both.

zukiphile · October 10, 2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemiram

I would take a P220 over any 1911. It's not even a close call. There is something in the way the 1911's grip is shaped that just feels wrong to me. On top of that, a trade in $4-500 P220 is probably going to be nicer than a new $4-500 1911. I paid $400 for mine, and it's almost in perfect condition.

Here's the problem: If you are of a certain background, the 1911 grip and trigger are wired into your brain as the paradigm for THE semi-auto pistol. Yes the Browning was around (also ergonomically excellent) but normal people shot a 1911.

I liked the 1911s I had, but it struck me as a maintenance intensive design. It was designed before most people had seen a car.

The P220 is objectively better, more accurate out of the box, more durable and runs longer without maintenance and tweeking. You can own and shoot one without having an excellent relationship with a gunsmith. Yet, I find it ergonomically inferior to a 1911.

hemiram · October 12, 2017, 01:49 AM

The FIRST centerfire pistol I ever shot was my cousin's 1911 that he bought used on his 21st birthday in 1951. I was 8 years old, and it was exciting, but I was more interested in revolvers back then. I shot an old 32 S&W revolver a couple of years after that, and I liked it a lot. The first non-1911 semiauto I shot was a Beretta 92s when I was 21. THAT grip I really liked. I remember shooting some guy's 1911 at the range near my house at the time along with the 92s and a new 92 went home with me that day. I've had a couple of 92's since then, the last being a trade in 92FS that was in fantastic shape with a bunch of mags for $410. I don't have one now, but I'm getting the bug to buy one again. But of all the guns I have, my favorite, without a doubt, is my Tanfoglio "Mossad" CZ-75 clone. That's a perfect grip, IMHO. All steel, satin nickel. I have the one two tone too, and a compact. All are the same thing as the same era EAA Witness. All three of them cost about as much as a "decent" 1911, and I would bet my life on any of them over any 1911. Of my plastic guns, my favorite is my Sar CM9 Gen2. A fantastic gun at a price almost too cheap to believe. I paid $259 for mine, shipped with 2 mags. I've got 1000+ rounds through it without a hitch and I can't say one thing bad about it. I'm expecting that the SAR guns will be the next "XD", where they suddenly go up in price after people realize what great guns they are.

dgludwig · October 12, 2017, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Anyway, how many of you shoot a 1911 and a P220? And, if you do, do you like one more than the other and for what reason?

I have both (actually, I traded "up" for a Model 227 because it carries more ammunition than the Model 220 and I prefer the E2 grip configuration) and like them equally well-but they are a kind of an oranges to tangerine comparison.

I prefer the SIG for edc because I like the da/sa trigger format for self-defense and prefer the 1911 for target use due to its having a much superior trigger, best suited for the precision accuracy needed in venues like Bullseye competition.

Joe_Pike · October 12, 2017, 06:17 PM

Well, I shot mine today and wasn't all that excited about it. Within the first 25 rounds I had a failure to fire. That very well could have been the ammo, but on the round that didn't fire I tried to eject it and the slide was locked up. I had to give it a pretty good tug to get it free, but I reloaded the problem round and the rest of the 100 rounds were fired with out issue. Then I was going to run some Hornady American Gunner (reboxed Hornady Custom) through it and those will not even fit into the Sig magazines. The mouth of the hollow point is too wide or OAL is too long. Apparently Sigs will not feed everything. Anyway, kind of disappointed.

TunnelRat · October 12, 2017, 07:19 PM

If you keep having issues call SIG. That's one of the supposed advantages of a new pistol, a warranty. As for Hornady, that's not the first time I've read of issues of feeding Hornady 45ACP. I seem to remember HK45s have the same issue. As someone that never personally cared for Hornady it's not a big deal to me, but might be worth starting a new thread or doing a Google search.

**4V50 Gary** · October 12, 2017, 08:42 PM

P220. I carried one for years as a duty sidearm. I'm just used to it.

JDBerg · October 14, 2017, 10:18 PM

Today I had a chance to try out a Springfield TRP Operator today at a Springfield “Hit the Range” Demo Day and this TRP was a much better shooting pistol compared to the P220 I once had.

tallball · October 15, 2017, 07:54 AM

You mean there are people who don't own both?

Wow. I am sorry to hear that.

Elkins45 · October 15, 2017, 09:18 AM

I would much rather trust my life to a P220 over any of the 1911s I own, and I own a couple of good ones. In fact I occasionally do.

**4V50 Gary** · October 15, 2017, 10:18 AM

Many modern 1911 use MIM. At least with Sig you get stamped metal.

Model12Win · October 15, 2017, 07:34 PM

I've heard many say they'd rather trust a 220 than a 1911.

And a TRP is $1500.

A surplus 220 is a thrice divided.

mavracer · October 16, 2017, 05:37 AM

I wouldn't trade my P220 for a 4-500 1911, but I wouldn't trade off any of my 1911s for a P220 either. I in fact traded off a Ruger P97 for the Sig.
A guy should have both.

Handgunner00 · October 30, 2017, 09:01 AM

If the Sig P220 were compared with the Sig 1911 Target, would the vote be different?

jr24 · October 30, 2017, 09:15 AM

Have both, shoot both love both.

Shoot 1911s better due to trigger characteristcs.

Can't go wrong with either IMO.

smee78 · October 30, 2017, 09:35 AM

I have both and they both shoot good for me. I have a few 1911's and a P220 match and for me they are two different animals but both shoot great and havent had any problems with them. Strange that you had the ammo problem with the Sig, I havent had any problems but cant recall shooting any of the Hornady ammo in it though. Give it a good cleaning and take it out again and give it a fair shake, mabye you were just having an off day?

SA1911 · October 30, 2017, 09:56 AM

They're two very differently designed guns. The 1911-A1 was designed to be an offensive battle weapon for the US Army.

I love the 1911-A1. I think it's the king of all handguns of all time.

However, the P-220 is a precision crafted handgun that is as close to 100% reliable as any handgun could achieve. It's far more reliable that ANY revolver.

A shooter could spend 5k on a 1911-A1, but it'll never be more reliable than a P-220. ANd I'd doubt it'd be more accurate than a P-220.

But I still love the 1911-A1. I'm sentimental that way.

October 7, 2017, 03:10 PM	#26
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Hello Joe_Pike, I consider myself to be a 1911 guy. That being said, I've owned several P220 variations over the last ~25 years and was a LE armorer for SIG and other manufactuer's firearms. One thing my P220s all had in common, was flawless reliability with any appropriate ammunition. Nothing ever broke, and accuracy was as least as good as, or better than, any other service style pistol I owned. Having used both P220s, and various manufactuer's 1911 type pistols, right out of the box I would trust the P220 more than a 1911 type to function as it should. Not something I heard on the internet, personal experience. BTW, the P220s were not designed to function with SWC bullets. I don't consider this to be a negative. Still have one P220, an older German manufactur 9MM. Goes bang every time, and doesn't suffer any deficiency in accuracy. Some of the stainless slide/internal extractor guns were reported to have extraction problems. One of my coworkers started carrying a P220 after his Glock Ka-Boomed during training one night. It was one of those guns with an extraction issue. None of my SIGs, or those of my other coworkers, suffered extraction issues. But this one did. To my knowledge, Sig never admitted a problem, but current P220s utilize a different, external, extractor. I prefer the older generation of German guns, but consider the P220s whether German or American manufacture, to be very good pistols. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

October 9, 2017, 09:00 AM	#33
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Right out of the box, I'd guess that you'd have a better chance of an accurate, well made gun by going to the Sig P220. I've owned 1911's for right at 50 years now, including a couple of Gold Cups from the 70's, and two Ruger SR 1911's in the last 5-6 years. But the Sig's, all six of them that I've owned in the last decade all came with superb fit and finish, and as accurate as my cherished 1911's. If the operating system, grip feel, and trigger appeal to you, the Sig line makes sense. They're not cheap, but they are universally good out of the box and backed up by a great customer service dept. As an alternate idea: Sig makes great 1911's too. I have a Sig 1911 RCS that's my hands down pick for CC use: alloy frame, Officer's model grip length, tritium night sights, 4" barrel and a match trigger & bbl. It's the best of my .45's and a daily companion here on the farm. Sig doesn't make them any more, but they're readily available on gunbroker. HTH's Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

October 12, 2017, 06:17 PM	#38
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	Well, I shot mine today and wasn't all that excited about it. Within the first 25 rounds I had a failure to fire. That very well could have been the ammo, but on the round that didn't fire I tried to eject it and the slide was locked up. I had to give it a pretty good tug to get it free, but I reloaded the problem round and the rest of the 100 rounds were fired with out issue. Then I was going to run some Hornady American Gunner (reboxed Hornady Custom) through it and those will not even fit into the Sig magazines. The mouth of the hollow point is too wide or OAL is too long. Apparently Sigs will not feed everything. Anyway, kind of disappointed. __________________ Stay Groovy Last edited by Joe_Pike; October 15, 2017 at 07:57 PM.

October 12, 2017, 07:19 PM	#39
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	If you keep having issues call SIG. That's one of the supposed advantages of a new pistol, a warranty. As for Hornady, that's not the first time I've read of issues of feeding Hornady 45ACP. I seem to remember HK45s have the same issue. As someone that never personally cared for Hornady it's not a big deal to me, but might be worth starting a new thread or doing a Google search. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

October 12, 2017, 08:42 PM	#40
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	P220. I carried one for years as a duty sidearm. I'm just used to it. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 7, 2017, 06:01 PM	#27
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I really like mine:

October 7, 2017, 06:55 PM	#28
Bilbo463 Member Join Date: July 28, 2017 Posts: 45	One topic I didn't see mentioned is trigger reach and hand size. The Sig P220 being a single stack has one of the shortest trigger reaches in their line of da/sa handguns. Having said that, the reach to the trigger is still longer than that on a 1911 with a long trigger. If you can hold the pistol, it would be a good idea to do so to make sure you have a good fit. I used to have several Sigs, but sold them all and went with mostly single action pistols (i.e. 1911's, hi powers and cz's with manual safeties. I found to my dismay that I just could not master the da/sa transition when I shot pistols with other types of actions. To me, a SA pistol with manual safety works best. I never had any malfunctions with any of my Sigs, they are quality handguns.

October 7, 2017, 08:52 PM	#29
Troy800 Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2015 Posts: 118	Both are great guns. Very different triggers. I own both and each has pros and cons. I always use my sigs for defense but only because that is what i have shot for 30 years. I plink, practice with a DA/SA. In a high stress situation you will resort to how you train. Another reason i use Sigs is they need no work to be absolutly reliable. I will never modify, tinker or change anything on a defensive weapon except grips and sights for liability reasons. If you want a defense weapon that is accurate and reliable right out of the box then go with the P220. Not many after market parts available but none is needed for a defense weapon. It just works. It is simple, very easy to field strip and clean, no safey to forget. The DA trigger is a 10 lb long pull but you will not accidentilly discharge. SA is 4 lb with a short reset. You can get the 220 in SAO if you do not like the DA/SA trigger. If you like to tinker and upgrade your weapon then go with the 1911. They have great triggers and tons of aftermarket parts. With some work yourself or some extra money for quality 1911s they are very accurate and make great target guns. Great defense guns if you put in the practice with the safety (I have not). I have a Dan Wesson 1911 and is a beautiful gun and shoots like a dream. But is it fair to compair a $1700 1911 to a $800 sig. I would trust both with my life but will personally choose the Sig every time for a defensive gun. But I love shooting my Dan Wesson.

October 8, 2017, 03:09 AM	#30
hemiram Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Location: Toledo, ohio Posts: 762	I would take a P220 over any 1911. It's not even a close call. There is something in the way the 1911's grip is shaped that just feels wrong to me. On top of that, a trade in $4-500 P220 is probably going to be nicer than a new $4-500 1911. I paid $400 for mine, and it's almost in perfect condition.

October 8, 2017, 10:15 PM	#32
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	I've owned a couple of P220's over the years. One in 38 Super and one in 45 acp. Excellent guns by all measures. Really. Get one or two. As a few years go by try the CZ97. The biggest issue with that excellent gun is the long reach to the trigger and that can be improved on. tipoc

October 10, 2017, 07:18 PM	#34
bandanabandit1 Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Posts: 25	All comes down to preference, both pistols are absolutely capable. The sig has the fatter grip and the DA/SA trigger (most of the time) and the 1911 has the single action pull. Get both.

October 12, 2017, 01:49 AM	#36
hemiram Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Location: Toledo, ohio Posts: 762	The FIRST centerfire pistol I ever shot was my cousin's 1911 that he bought used on his 21st birthday in 1951. I was 8 years old, and it was exciting, but I was more interested in revolvers back then. I shot an old 32 S&W revolver a couple of years after that, and I liked it a lot. The first non-1911 semiauto I shot was a Beretta 92s when I was 21. THAT grip I really liked. I remember shooting some guy's 1911 at the range near my house at the time along with the 92s and a new 92 went home with me that day. I've had a couple of 92's since then, the last being a trade in 92FS that was in fantastic shape with a bunch of mags for $410. I don't have one now, but I'm getting the bug to buy one again. But of all the guns I have, my favorite, without a doubt, is my Tanfoglio "Mossad" CZ-75 clone. That's a perfect grip, IMHO. All steel, satin nickel. I have the one two tone too, and a compact. All are the same thing as the same era EAA Witness. All three of them cost about as much as a "decent" 1911, and I would bet my life on any of them over any 1911. Of my plastic guns, my favorite is my Sar CM9 Gen2. A fantastic gun at a price almost too cheap to believe. I paid $259 for mine, shipped with 2 mags. I've got 1000+ rounds through it without a hitch and I can't say one thing bad about it. I'm expecting that the SAR guns will be the next "XD", where they suddenly go up in price after people realize what great guns they are.

October 14, 2017, 10:18 PM	#41
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	Today I had a chance to try out a Springfield TRP Operator today at a Springfield “Hit the Range” Demo Day and this TRP was a much better shooting pistol compared to the P220 I once had. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

October 15, 2017, 07:54 AM	#42
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	You mean there are people who don't own both? Wow. I am sorry to hear that.

October 15, 2017, 09:18 AM	#43
Elkins45 Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2010 Posts: 498	I would much rather trust my life to a P220 over any of the 1911s I own, and I own a couple of good ones. In fact I occasionally do.

October 15, 2017, 10:18 AM	#44
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Many modern 1911 use MIM. At least with Sig you get stamped metal. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 15, 2017, 07:34 PM	#45
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I've heard many say they'd rather trust a 220 than a 1911. And a TRP is $1500. A surplus 220 is a thrice divided.

October 30, 2017, 09:01 AM	#47
Handgunner00 Member Join Date: April 9, 2017 Location: Fairfax Station, VA Posts: 63	P220 vs 1911 If the Sig P220 were compared with the Sig 1911 Target, would the vote be different?

October 30, 2017, 09:15 AM	#48
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	Have both, shoot both love both. Shoot 1911s better due to trigger characteristcs. Can't go wrong with either IMO.

October 30, 2017, 09:35 AM	#49
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	I have both and they both shoot good for me. I have a few 1911's and a P220 match and for me they are two different animals but both shoot great and havent had any problems with them. Strange that you had the ammo problem with the Sig, I havent had any problems but cant recall shooting any of the Hornady ammo in it though. Give it a good cleaning and take it out again and give it a fair shake, mabye you were just having an off day? __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

October 30, 2017, 09:56 AM	#50
SA1911 Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2017 Posts: 147	They're two very differently designed guns. The 1911-A1 was designed to be an offensive battle weapon for the US Army. I love the 1911-A1. I think it's the king of all handguns of all time. However, the P-220 is a precision crafted handgun that is as close to 100% reliable as any handgun could achieve. It's far more reliable that ANY revolver. A shooter could spend 5k on a 1911-A1, but it'll never be more reliable than a P-220. ANd I'd doubt it'd be more accurate than a P-220. But I still love the 1911-A1. I'm sentimental that way.