New SW 66 and classic 19 questions - Page 2

dgludwig · July 1, 2018, 03:39 PM

[QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
36 ounces is LIGHTWEIGHT?

Quote:

Quote:
I guess its a matter of perspective.

As a matter of "perspective", I find it a bit of a reach to distinguish a "heavyweight" Colt Government Model 1911 pistol weighing 38 ounces as being very much different from a "lightweight" revolver weighing 36 ounces.

FoghornLeghorn · July 2, 2018, 08:05 PM

FWIW to the OP: I used to live in Kali and bought an off roster gun under the ATF Curio and Relics rules. California allows that exemption for residents of the state. The gun I purchased was a pre 27 with 3 1/2 inch barrel.

The model 19 was manufactured beginning in 1958 which means you can buy one manufactured up to 1968. I just checked Gunbroker and they have several 19s that are C&R.

That's the route I'd go.

HighValleyRanch · July 2, 2018, 10:19 PM

Good point Foghorn. I've thought of doing that myself with older Colt police positives, and still might as I'm looking for one in .38 special.

But one has to also factor in the cost of shipping, the cost of the dealer's DROS and of course some money tip for his efforts, as well as sales tax as he has to log it into his books. So normally this adds up to around 100.00 plus on top of the cost.

But as mentioned before, most dealers on Gun Broker or any of the other national sites are not willing to ship to California because of the politics and laws and extra cost as CA requires the dealers to have a special import permit.

FoghornLeghorn · July 3, 2018, 06:04 AM

Quote:

one has to also factor in the cost of shipping, the cost of the dealer's DROS and of course some money tip for his efforts, as well as sales tax

Yeah, and? Any gun you buy online is going to require shipping. But that cost is nominal IMO. It's just the cost of getting the gun you want. DROS is something you pay no matter where you get the gun. Even if you buy a Cali dealers existing inventory, you pay DROS fees.

Tip? I've never "tipped" a dealer for doing their job and I've been buying guns for over half a century.

Plus, you're not required to pay sales tax on anything other than the price the dealer charges for the transfer. You don't pay sales tax on the gun if it's shipped in from out of state. Are you talking about a "use" tax? Cause, that's a tax form issue.

My post was to the OP. He seemed to think his only option is to buy a Smith with a lock. That, or find the odd duck pre lock 19. When I was living in cali, I drove all over the state finding collectible specimens.

He can get what he wants in a C&R. Another $100 or so is no big deal to find a pre lock P&R 19. IMO.

rickmelear · July 3, 2018, 07:15 PM

36oz, perfect

lechiffre · July 10, 2018, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoghornLeghorn

Plus, you're not required to pay sales tax on anything other than the price the dealer charges for the transfer. You don't pay sales tax on the gun if it's shipped in from out of state. Are you talking about a "use" tax? Cause, that's a tax form issue.
.

In California dealers are required by law to collect sales tax on firearms even if they are transferred from out of state. Ca law makers will do anything they can come up with to harass gun owners.

Satchmoeddie · July 11, 2018, 05:13 AM

I generally don't care for the S&W J frames, and would gladly pay extra for a used Colt D frame, but the S&W K Frame is another story. I love the older Model 66s! I have a 66-2 where the gas ring was moved from the crane to the cylinder, but it does not have a pinned barrel or a recessed cylinder, so I am on the hunt for another older model 19, too. The trigger on my 66-2 is almost perfection. One cylinder is almost off time, but it's not an issue, yet. The Colt Detective Special is twice the gun of any J Frame, so I don't own a J frame S&W. I'll take all the K,L, N & X frames I can get. Same goes for Colt D, I & O frames! I even have a cool $350 shoulder holster for my Model 66/19s, with two pouches for speed loaders. I usually have an old solo police shoulder holster for a Sig/Sig Sauer P226/P228/P229, and carry a German P228 daily (no extra ammo, just the gun & it's magazine). For special occasions, I will wear the model 66. God help anyone who threatens my life on one of those days, because that model 66 is exceptionally accurate, and it's shooting full house 158 grain .357 JHP loads, not the puny 9x19mm Parabellum. The Colt gets loaded with 158 grain .38 Spcl +P semi-wadcutter hollow points, or Buffalo Bore, same bullets, standard pressure. I'd like a Model 586 S&W, but cannot reconcile paying more for a 586, than the 686, unless the new 586 is MIM part free, and it isn't! California is the pain in the ____ state just across The Colorado River from us. East of the river happiness is belt fed, but west of the river, you need to hire a legal team, just to buy a gun. God help you if you want to carry it! Riverside County is almost "shall issue", but anywhere else, you had better have money, and political connections. I don't think it cost me more than $20 for some plugs for the Hillary Holes, when I took the locks out of a bunch of J Frames I bought and repaired. Half of those guns, had the locks engaged, and the keys were long gone. I just didn't like them enough to keep them, so I sold them. I have the full 1960s/1970s LAPD gun collection, with a Model 19, a Detective Special, and the Ithaca Model 37 pump shotgun. California has always had goofy gun laws going way back to the Mexican Revolution, and the ingress of the Mexican refugees. They passed laws keeping guns away from the Mexicans, and the Chinese. Later they passed laws forbidding carrying loaded guns, after the Black Panthers stood around the state capital with loaded guns. They never once shot anyone at any of these demonstrations. They did shoot each other, but that was okay. I guess the racist past of California's gun laws, needs to be rectified, by making guns inaccessible to everyone!

HighValleyRanch · July 11, 2018, 07:23 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Paragraphs are requred in California as well!

CajunBass · July 11, 2018, 09:17 AM

This is what the "new" Model 19 looks like. I haven't had a chance to shoot it, maybe later today.

It's funny. I know the barrel is only about a 1/4" longer than 4", but it looks a lot longer to me.

Here's a shot of the forcing cone area. You can see that it doesn't have the flat cut on the bottom that was supposed to the source of the Model 19's weakness.

That little silver ball is the spring loaded detente that locks the front of the cylinder, doing away with the one at the end of the ejector rod.

Another view that shows the female cut for the front lock just head of the cylinder. The plunger is just above on the main frame.

If you don't like it because it's got a lock. Can't help you. But if you're looking for one, well, I didn't hesitate to buy it as soon as I saw it.

HighValleyRanch · July 16, 2018, 10:36 PM

The new Smith Classic 19 just got added to the California roster on July 12th!
So yes, the OP is good to go with a purchase.
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/...entlyadded.pdf

The 4.25" barrel is to appease the Canadian laws, n'est pas?

CAJUN, is the grip frame a square butt or round butt?

CajunBass · July 17, 2018, 05:52 AM

Quote:

CAJUN, is the grip frame a square butt or round butt?

You know, I thought I knew, but I had to go look to make sure. It's a round butt with round to square grips.

I have fired it, with 50 rounds of Fiochi 142 grain FMJTC, 357 Magnum ammo. It's a good shooter, even with someone who's as poor a shot as I am shooting it. My only objection and it's a minor one to me, is the checkering doesn't offer much grip. The stocks kept slipping just a little, in my hand. It's not a problem for me really. I will probably never shoot 357 ammo in it again. At least not full power 357. I shoot about 99.5 % 38 Special in my guns. If I was going to shoot a bunch of magnum ammo, I'd get a set of Pachmayrs or Hogues for it.

Quote:

The 4.25" barrel is to appease the Canadian laws, n'est pas?

That is my understanding also. Ruger does the same thing, same reason I'm sure.

tipoc · July 26, 2018, 10:53 PM

The new "Classic Model 19" features a carbon steel frame and a stainless barrel. The frame appears larger than that of the original K frame M19, which itself was larger than the standard K frame.

tipoc

CajunBass · July 27, 2018, 05:22 AM

Quote:

The new "Classic Model 19" features a carbon steel frame and a stainless barrel. The frame appears larger than that of the original K frame M19, which itself was larger than the standard K frame.

It might be, but it fits all my old holsters for K-frame Smith & Wesson's and my Model 69 (L-frame) won't, so if there is a difference it's not much.

The area from the rear sight, sweeping down past the hammer, toward the grip has been changed I believe to fit the lock.

Model 66-1

Model 19-9

tipoc · July 27, 2018, 11:42 AM

Cajun,

Compare the area below the area of the forcing cone from the 66 to the 19 Classic. You earlier pic in post #34 shows that area in the "Classic" well. You comment on the extra meat there.

tipoc

rodfac · July 28, 2018, 06:51 AM

Cajun, that's a good lookin' piece...enjoy it! Rod

Stargater53 · August 4, 2018, 08:55 PM

The Model 66 has always been a "dream gun" to me but, never able to find or afford one, I went in for the Ruger Security-Six in a big way. I have one in each barrel length, plus a couple of 3-inch Speed-Sixes (they were born .38 Spc, but teamed for the .357). Since the early days I've come to since believe that the Rugers are better guns, but I still have always wanted a 66, and not just any 66, but the 66 no-dash. I want mine to have a pinned barrel and counter-bored chambers. And I want the S&W stamp to be on the side plate and not under the cylinder release on the other side. (I've also heard that the no-dash model is made from a better grade stainless steel, but I've never been able to confirm that.)

The 66s and the Security-Sixes are better guns than today's fare. Today's .357 DA revolvers are great range and competition guns, but lousy camping, hiking and fishing guns. The under-lugs make them too damn heavy for outdoor use and S&W and Ruger are failing to address this problem. The one revolver they offer (the new 66) is one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen. They look like they were using parts from different guns when assembling them. Yeesh! You've heard the phrase, "If I had a dog that looked like yours, I'd shave its ass and make it walk backwards!" That's how I feel about the new 66 (which by the way isn't available in a 6-inch barrel, the very barrel length an outdoorsman needs!).

The S&W 686 is one of the greatest .357 revolvers ever made, don't get me wrong, but who wants to lug one around, especially with a 6-inch barrel? When I visit musty, dank, dark indoor ranges, the 686 can't be beat. But for hiking and other outdoor activities, it just isn't the gun most people would reach for. If I'm wrong, let me know, but post a picture of your dog when you do it!

S&W 686 (top) and Ruger Security-Six.
If heading for the outdoors, which would
you take?

.

CajunBass · August 5, 2018, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipoc

Cajun,

Compare the area below the area of the forcing cone from the 66 to the 19 Classic. You earlier pic in post #34 shows that area in the "Classic" well. You comment on the extra meat there.

tipoc

Sorry, I just saw this. I had to dig both out of the safe and take a look. The only difference I see is the lug for the front locking mechanism. That looks like they just took material from the yoke area, but kept the same overall dimensions. That's using my old MK I eyeballs of course.

dgludwig · August 8, 2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

That's how I feel about the new 66 (which by the way isn't available in a 6-inch barrel, the very barrel length an outdoorsman needs!).

Quote:

The S&W 686 is one of the greatest .357 revolvers ever made, don't get me wrong, but who wants to lug one around, especially with a 6-inch barrel?

You seem to be saying the six inch barrel is the best length for the outdoors carry but that no one would ever want to carry one in the outdoors because the six inch length is too long. Which is it?

CajunBass · August 8, 2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

You seem to be saying the six inch barrel is the best length for the outdoors carry but that no one would ever want to carry one in the outdoors because the six inch length is too long. Which is it?

I think he likes a 6" barrel, but doesn't care for the extra weight of the full length underlug barrel. It's not the length, but the weight.

Neither do I.

highpower3006 · August 9, 2018, 06:21 AM

Quote:

The Model 66 has always been a "dream gun" to me but, never able to find or afford one, I went in for the Ruger Security-Six in a big way. I have one in each barrel length, plus a couple of 3-inch Speed-Sixes (they were born .38 Spc, but teamed for the .357). Since the early days I've come to since believe that the Rugers are better guns, but I still have always wanted a 66, and not just any 66, but the 66 no-dash. I want mine to have a pinned barrel and counter-bored chambers. And I want the S&W stamp to be on the side plate and not under the cylinder release on the other side. (I've also heard that the no-dash model is made from a better grade stainless steel, but I've never been able to confirm that.)

I am glad that I got lucky and found a 4" 66 no dash a few years ago just before the prices started to go crazy. If I remember right, I got mine for $300. A couple years later I stumbled onto a 6" 66-2 in a gun store that I pried out of there for $340.

A year after that that I found a Model 19-2 that I believe to have been unfired since it left the factory. The price on that one was subject to inflation and I had to pay $450 for it.

I must have used up all my gun-luck because since then I have yet to see either a Model 66 or Model 19 at any kind of a reasonable price around here. I started off as a kid shooting revolvers and have always had a soft spot for them. Of all that I have owned and shot, the K frame Smiths have been my favorite for camp and general knock-around guns. I do have to say that the 4" 586-2 I picked up at a local estate sale is giving them a run for the money as I like the balance with the heavier barrel when shooting magnums.

66 no dash

19-2

66-2

CajunBass · August 11, 2018, 06:37 AM

I just had to bump this up to say, beautiful revolvers highpower. Just beautiful.

tipoc · August 12, 2018, 06:57 PM

Forcing cone from an early K Frame .357 M13-3 specifically.

M66

tipoc

CajunBass · August 14, 2018, 05:23 AM

I think I see what you're talking about now Tiptop. There does seem to be a bit more material under the forcing cone.

jar · August 18, 2018, 07:38 AM

I'm lucky enough to still have my Highway Patrolman from 1967 IIRC and a California purchase as well as my 19-5. I did sell the model 28 about a decade ago but don't miss it too much.

I also still have my Dan Wesson and except for having to re-tension the barrel every once in a while that set up simply works.

The 19 has a set pf Pachy's on it now:

July 2, 2018, 10:19 PM	#28
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,065	Good point Foghorn. I've thought of doing that myself with older Colt police positives, and still might as I'm looking for one in .38 special. But one has to also factor in the cost of shipping, the cost of the dealer's DROS and of course some money tip for his efforts, as well as sales tax as he has to log it into his books. So normally this adds up to around 100.00 plus on top of the cost. But as mentioned before, most dealers on Gun Broker or any of the other national sites are not willing to ship to California because of the politics and laws and extra cost as CA requires the dealers to have a special import permit. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

July 11, 2018, 07:23 AM	#33
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,065	^^^^^^^^^^^^ Paragraphs are requred in California as well! __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

July 16, 2018, 10:36 PM	#35
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,065	The new Smith Classic 19 just got added to the California roster on July 12th! So yes, the OP is good to go with a purchase. https://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/...entlyadded.pdf The 4.25" barrel is to appease the Canadian laws, n'est pas? CAJUN, is the grip frame a square butt or round butt? __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail" Last edited by HighValleyRanch; July 16, 2018 at 10:56 PM.

July 26, 2018, 10:53 PM	#37
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	The new "Classic Model 19" features a carbon steel frame and a stainless barrel. The frame appears larger than that of the original K frame M19, which itself was larger than the standard K frame. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

July 27, 2018, 11:42 AM	#39
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Cajun, Compare the area below the area of the forcing cone from the 66 to the 19 Classic. You earlier pic in post #34 shows that area in the "Classic" well. You comment on the extra meat there. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

July 2, 2018, 08:05 PM	#27
FoghornLeghorn Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Posts: 961	FWIW to the OP: I used to live in Kali and bought an off roster gun under the ATF Curio and Relics rules. California allows that exemption for residents of the state. The gun I purchased was a pre 27 with 3 1/2 inch barrel. The model 19 was manufactured beginning in 1958 which means you can buy one manufactured up to 1968. I just checked Gunbroker and they have several 19s that are C&R. That's the route I'd go.

July 3, 2018, 07:15 PM	#30
rickmelear Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2005 Location: palm beach county, fl Posts: 257	36oz, perfect

July 11, 2018, 05:13 AM	#32
Satchmoeddie Member Join Date: November 21, 2008 Posts: 61	I generally don't care for the S&W J frames, and would gladly pay extra for a used Colt D frame, but the S&W K Frame is another story. I love the older Model 66s! I have a 66-2 where the gas ring was moved from the crane to the cylinder, but it does not have a pinned barrel or a recessed cylinder, so I am on the hunt for another older model 19, too. The trigger on my 66-2 is almost perfection. One cylinder is almost off time, but it's not an issue, yet. The Colt Detective Special is twice the gun of any J Frame, so I don't own a J frame S&W. I'll take all the K,L, N & X frames I can get. Same goes for Colt D, I & O frames! I even have a cool $350 shoulder holster for my Model 66/19s, with two pouches for speed loaders. I usually have an old solo police shoulder holster for a Sig/Sig Sauer P226/P228/P229, and carry a German P228 daily (no extra ammo, just the gun & it's magazine). For special occasions, I will wear the model 66. God help anyone who threatens my life on one of those days, because that model 66 is exceptionally accurate, and it's shooting full house 158 grain .357 JHP loads, not the puny 9x19mm Parabellum. The Colt gets loaded with 158 grain .38 Spcl +P semi-wadcutter hollow points, or Buffalo Bore, same bullets, standard pressure. I'd like a Model 586 S&W, but cannot reconcile paying more for a 586, than the 686, unless the new 586 is MIM part free, and it isn't! California is the pain in the ____ state just across The Colorado River from us. East of the river happiness is belt fed, but west of the river, you need to hire a legal team, just to buy a gun. God help you if you want to carry it! Riverside County is almost "shall issue", but anywhere else, you had better have money, and political connections. I don't think it cost me more than $20 for some plugs for the Hillary Holes, when I took the locks out of a bunch of J Frames I bought and repaired. Half of those guns, had the locks engaged, and the keys were long gone. I just didn't like them enough to keep them, so I sold them. I have the full 1960s/1970s LAPD gun collection, with a Model 19, a Detective Special, and the Ithaca Model 37 pump shotgun. California has always had goofy gun laws going way back to the Mexican Revolution, and the ingress of the Mexican refugees. They passed laws keeping guns away from the Mexicans, and the Chinese. Later they passed laws forbidding carrying loaded guns, after the Black Panthers stood around the state capital with loaded guns. They never once shot anyone at any of these demonstrations. They did shoot each other, but that was okay. I guess the racist past of California's gun laws, needs to be rectified, by making guns inaccessible to everyone!

July 11, 2018, 09:17 AM	#34
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	This is what the "new" Model 19 looks like. I haven't had a chance to shoot it, maybe later today. It's funny. I know the barrel is only about a 1/4" longer than 4", but it looks a lot longer to me. Here's a shot of the forcing cone area. You can see that it doesn't have the flat cut on the bottom that was supposed to the source of the Model 19's weakness. That little silver ball is the spring loaded detente that locks the front of the cylinder, doing away with the one at the end of the ejector rod. Another view that shows the female cut for the front lock just head of the cylinder. The plunger is just above on the main frame. If you don't like it because it's got a lock. Can't help you. But if you're looking for one, well, I didn't hesitate to buy it as soon as I saw it. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

July 28, 2018, 06:51 AM	#40
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Cajun, that's a good lookin' piece...enjoy it! Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

August 4, 2018, 08:55 PM	#41
Stargater53 Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 94	The Model 66 has always been a "dream gun" to me but, never able to find or afford one, I went in for the Ruger Security-Six in a big way. I have one in each barrel length, plus a couple of 3-inch Speed-Sixes (they were born .38 Spc, but teamed for the .357). Since the early days I've come to since believe that the Rugers are better guns, but I still have always wanted a 66, and not just any 66, but the 66 no-dash. I want mine to have a pinned barrel and counter-bored chambers. And I want the S&W stamp to be on the side plate and not under the cylinder release on the other side. (I've also heard that the no-dash model is made from a better grade stainless steel, but I've never been able to confirm that.) The 66s and the Security-Sixes are better guns than today's fare. Today's .357 DA revolvers are great range and competition guns, but lousy camping, hiking and fishing guns. The under-lugs make them too damn heavy for outdoor use and S&W and Ruger are failing to address this problem. The one revolver they offer (the new 66) is one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen. They look like they were using parts from different guns when assembling them. Yeesh! You've heard the phrase, "If I had a dog that looked like yours, I'd shave its ass and make it walk backwards!" That's how I feel about the new 66 (which by the way isn't available in a 6-inch barrel, the very barrel length an outdoorsman needs!). The S&W 686 is one of the greatest .357 revolvers ever made, don't get me wrong, but who wants to lug one around, especially with a 6-inch barrel? When I visit musty, dank, dark indoor ranges, the 686 can't be beat. But for hiking and other outdoor activities, it just isn't the gun most people would reach for. If I'm wrong, let me know, but post a picture of your dog when you do it! S&W 686 (top) and Ruger Security-Six. If heading for the outdoors, which would you take? . Last edited by Stargater53; August 4, 2018 at 09:06 PM.

August 11, 2018, 06:37 AM	#46
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	I just had to bump this up to say, beautiful revolvers highpower. Just beautiful. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

August 12, 2018, 06:57 PM	#47
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Forcing cone from an early K Frame .357 M13-3 specifically. M66 tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

August 14, 2018, 05:23 AM	#48
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	I think I see what you're talking about now Tiptop. There does seem to be a bit more material under the forcing cone. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

August 18, 2018, 07:38 AM	#49
jar Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Deep South Texas Posts: 1,665	I'm lucky enough to still have my Highway Patrolman from 1967 IIRC and a California purchase as well as my 19-5. I did sell the model 28 about a decade ago but don't miss it too much. I also still have my Dan Wesson and except for having to re-tension the barrel every once in a while that set up simply works. The 19 has a set pf Pachy's on it now: __________________ To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!

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