30-06 or 300 WinMag for a Remington 700

[M88]

Looking at picking up a Remington 700 Long Range rifle, 26" barrel, found one for $625. Was told the trigger isn't ideal, but if I don't like it that I can change.

If I wasn't going to hunt with it, if I JUST wanted a rifle that will be consistently accurate out to say 600 yards at a paper target, would I be better off with the 300 Win Mag or the 30-06? I've been told that the 30-06 has more bullet options than the 30 Win Mag? Also I plan to reload this one, and was told the 30 Win Mag was trickier to reload? Was picky about the primer, and something about it being belted? Geeeez ya never know what to believe when you hear this stuff!

I'm sure there are other long range rounds out there that may do what I want better, but for several reasons I'm going to choose between the 30-06 and the 300 WinMag on this one. So just looking at these two rounds... any advice?

[Tallest]

I have owned both. I currently still own a 30-06, not a 300 WM. Nothing against the belted magnums, but I think the occurrences when you need one are actually quite rare. Especially when you’re controlling the circumstances like you do when target shooting.

Also, if you are reloading, the 30-06 has more functional diversity in load selection. It will be more than sufficient at the ranges of which you speak, and it will recoil less.

So my two cents is go with the 30-06.

[ripnbst]

.300WM and .30-06 have quite literally identical bullet selection. So whoever told you that doesn’t understand basic math/measurement.

For just putting holes in paper, definitely .30-06 will be better. .300WM burns more powder, so it will cost more to shoot, and yes the belted case makes it more difficult to load or reload for accuracy.

It can be shot and loaded for accuracy, but not as easily as the aught six.

The only reason, and I mean ONLY reason I’d go 300WM over 30-06 is for energy delivered on target. If your target doesn’t have a heartbeat then energy delivered is moot.


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[big al hunter]

Having owned both calibers I would go for 30-06 for target only. My reasons would be less recoil and a little easier to tune hand loads. If you tinker with it enough you can load a belted cartridge to be just as accurate, but it can take a little more effort. The 06 will use less powder as well. If you want to hunt with it the 300 mag is slightly more powerful. My FIL has a very accurate Ruger 77 in 300 win mag. He has shot some 2" groups at 400 yards with his using factory ammo. But he pays for every shot with pretty rough recoil. We try to limit a range sessions to less than 20 rds on the magnums. After that the flinching starts.

[Archie]

Unless you are intended to shoot targets at extreme ranges, I would suggest you drop the idea a .300 Anything Magnum. Yeah, they have high velocities and stuff, but they are not needed for much in the contiguous 48 states, and they have too small a caliber for Canada and Alaska.

For normal hunting in the continental U. S., you could do worse than a .30 W.C.F. rifle. To give yourself some 'margin' a .308 Winchester or .3006 are great. I prefer the small to middle metrics as a general purpose caliber. 6.5 Swede (with heavy bullets) will do for everything from elk on down, and probably the larger animals if not angry and charging.

For Moose and larger animals under ANY conditions, I'd go for .35 caliber rifles of the .358 Winchester and higher yield types.

The lower caliber magnums are good for medium size game at extended ranges, but few hunters can spot or hit a deer at 600 - 800 yards.

If you just gotta have a .300 Magnum, you might as well get it.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

If carry weight isn't a problem? The 300 is the better caliber of the two due to its higher velocity and overwhelming energy figures._ Factory ammo for> Isn't a problem. Every mom & pop gas station West of Appalachia has some shelved.

Without my checking I suspect the cartridge can handle reduction of powder Charge so to accommodate paper targeting for fun & giggles or hunting Cotton Tails over in Illinois} Honestly if I could do over.

The hunting rifles I currently have. {all having different calibers.} I could have bought two (2) only and been done with buying forever..
(My prefference: A 300 Win Mag Browning mark ll BAR and a 300 Win Mag Model 70 pre 64 model. )

However the only draw back of the 300s home reloading is the cartridges unusual short neck. But if you happen to be a seasoned reloader. "It's not a problem what-so-ever."

Anyway consider the 300's purchase. Bang floop is the usual experience for the 300 out to the ethical range of 600. Where as the 30-06 150 yard use? Often promises its shooter "Best have new battery's in the flashlight and comfortable walking shoes available plus a roll of toilet paper handy so to mark your trail after dark on that Big Game retrieval of your's.

[taylorce1]

I'd go with the 06 simply because you'll be able to shoot it longer with less fatigue. Personally I wouldn't choose either for your intended purpose. However, you said you have your reasons so I'll play along.

[44 AMP]

I'm going to choose between the 30-06 and the 300 WinMag on this one. So just looking at these two rounds... any advice?

Accurate at 600yds is more you and the gun. than the cartridge. The .300 Win Mag burns about 20% more powder than the 06. It delivers about 10% more velocity. Same bullets.

The .30-06 headspaces on the case shoulder. The .300 Win Mag headspaces on the "belt" of brass at the case head, just ahead of the extractor groove. In effect, it headspaces the same as a rimmed case, but uses a very slightly protruding belt on the head of the case, rather than a projecting rim. This can cause issues reloading it, compared to the 06 case. The reloading issues can be overcome, its not really difficult, you just need to learn a few things you need to do a little differently than when reloading the 06.

Also, the large volume of powder gas down the same size hole (.30 bore) means the throat of the rifling erodes faster. (meaning it takes fewer magnum rounds to wear out the barrel, compared to the 06)

SO, increased cost of brass, and powder, often more difficult to work up equally accurate loads, NOTICEABLY more felt recoil (for most of us), and shorter barrel life, for the magnum.

Now, what do you get for all that? About 300fps more velocity. (varies with load and gun) I don't have 600yd data handy, but I do have 500, and at 500yds, with a 180ge bt bullet the magnum drops about 44inches from a 100yd zero. The same bullet from an 06 drops almost 57 inches.

Time of flight for the magnum is 0.5885sec to 500yds, and the 06 is 0.6590 seconds. This matters for wind drift.

SO, boil it down, with the magnum, you have a more expensive rifle to shoot, with a shorter barrel life that kicks harder and takes a little more work to reload as accurately, but that drops less and drifts less in the wind.

Drop is a constant. Same bullet at the same speed at the same range always drops the same amount. If you can adjust for 44inches of drop, you can adjust for 57". (or whatever the actual numbers are for the range you are shooting.

Wind, on the other hand is variable and shifting, can be from any direction at any speed and can be several different directions and speed by the time you get out to 5-600yds. "Doping the wind" is almost as much art as science, And it can change every shot.

Up to you to decide which one meets your needs best. There's no free lunch.

[disseminator]

Of the two, I'd go 30-06 myself.

Either one is gonna beat you up at the range. The 30-06 has a decent amount of recoil and will wear you down after a few dozen rounds, even in a heavy gun like a Sendero.

I know what you said, but a 6.5 Creed.........

[M88]

GREAT forum here... lots of talent and info. 44 AMP pretty much laid it all out there, confirming a few things others have said. I'm going to get that Remington 700 in 30-06. Several reasons... I'm still VERY new to reloading, so that would be at least a little challenge apparently. I can always tackle that down the road when I'm more experienced. Kick and wearing myself out? I've shot 30-06 in my Garand and my M1903 for several hours, so know how much THEY kick. This 26" Rem 700 is 9.5 lbs, the Garand doesn't weigh much more than that. So that shouldn't be an issue. But... have never shot a .300 Win at all, didn't know anything about it other than a few people told me it was a powerful round that would go out that far. Like shooting 357 out of my SP101, apparently that .300 Win could get old quick. So... glad I asked.

Yes disseminator, that 6.5 Creed is a sweet long distance round with much less kick. I have a Weatherby Vanguard in 6.5 Creed... love it, one of the rifles I grab for the range often just because it's ENJOYABLE.

I appreciate all the info and help here. Thanks guys!

[Mobuck]

A 300WM is 2X as hard to shoot accurately as a 30/06 of similar weight.
I have shot both over the years and state this as fact. Recoil attenuation is a factor in long range shooting so more recoil makes a difference. Paper isn't hard to kill so the main advantage with the 300WM is pushing heavier bullets faster to beat the wind. Not really such a big deal until you pass 400-500 yards.

[ms6852]

For more than 50 years I have only used one caliber for hunting, and that is the venerable 30-06. My brothers on the other hand have bought 300 win mags and than sell them within the year since the ammo is too expensive for their taste and they do not reload like I do. Even if I did not reload the price of one box of 300 win mag allows you to buy 2 or 3 boxes of 30-06 depending of type of ammo. I would recommend a 30-06.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by taylorce1

I'd go with the 06 simply because you'll be able to shoot it longer with less fatigue. Personally I wouldn't choose either for your intended purpose. However, you said you have your reasons so I'll play along.

Ditto.

[5whiskey]

30-06 is what you seek. I wouldn't opt for more unless I was hunting in Alaska. Even then 30-06, with the right ammo, and in the hands of a skilled hunter, is sufficient. For the lower 48 I personally don't believe there is any need for a heavier caliber short of trying to push large game hunting to ranges that most (not all, but the vast majority of) men don't have the skill to ethically take shots at anyway.

"Flat shooting" was a fad, and still may be to a degree, but as 44amp stated bullet drop is repeatable and predictable. It is not some strange science. It is well understood. The only thing involves real skill in relation to bullet drop is accurate range estimation, and LRFs have taken care of that for us now. Wind drift is another matter. What I'm seeing, just by a quick online search of Federal premium ammo 180 bonded ballistics charts, is that you will get about 220 FPS faster with the 300 mag. That would equate to wind drift of 23.6" at 500 yards. The same bullet in 30-06 is 220 FPS slower, which will equate to 26.6" of wind drift at 500 yards. So 3" less wind drift at 500 yards... not worth the recoil and expense IMO.

Now if it's just what you want, go for it. That's the freedom of choice that makes America great. But if you're asking advice, I'll tell you my opinion

[Tallest]

Where as the 30-06 150 yard use? Often promises its shooter "Best have new battery's in the flashlight and comfortable walking shoes available plus a roll of toilet paper handy so to mark your trail after dark on that Big Game retrieval of your's.

I feel like this could be the most blatant short-sell of the 30-06 I have ever read. Its arguably the most versatile hunting cartridge out there, and folks have used it for practically everything, including dark continent dangerous game. It's not best suited for ALL of that, but it is extremely capable way out past 150 yds for North American game. I would argue that if you have trouble taking game cleanly/effectively at 150 yds with the -06, you may very well have trouble with any chambering.

[Chaparral]

Both the 300 WM and 30-06 are fine cartridges. I own both, reload both, and hunt with both. Been doing this for years. I also custom reload for others. Folks drop off their rifles and I do all that measuring stuff, create loads, and test their rifles at the range. I'm just saying I have had the chance to shoot many rifles with every load you can imagine. First the Remington 700 Long Range is a great rifle for $625-$650 range. Drop a Timney trigger in it and you'll have a dandy! Now as far as 30-06 vs 300 WM. Without me going into a thesis here, the 30-06 just has so many more positives over negatives vs the 300 WM. The negatives of the 300 WM have already been mentioned here. Your powder goes a lot further reloading for 06, recoil is much lighter (But that depends on the rifle & muzzle breaks too), being the main positives. Another positive is the powder you use for your 06 can also be used in other popular rounds. the powders I use for 300 WM are more limited to those type calibers.

[M88]

Lots of good info here... thanks guys. As posted, based on what others have posted, I ordered the Remington 700 Long Range... it should be at my FFL in 2 days. Looking forward to putting a GOOD scope on it and taking it to the range to sight it in at 100 yards. Nearest place to shoot farther than that is couple hours away for me. Looking forward to doing THAT at some point also. Thanks again.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Was told the trigger isn't ideal..." M700 triggers are fully adjustable. Factory triggers all need work regardless of the brand.
"...30-06 has more bullet options..." Nope. Same bullet diameter. Different weights. However, the .300 Mag has considerably more felt recoil with like bullet weights out of like weight rifles. By approximately 6.3 ft-lbs. in an 8 pound rifle(your M700 weighs 9 pounds in either chambering.). Enough to make shooting a .300 uncomfortable even though it's about roughly 100 FPS higher velocity.
"...they have too small a caliber for Canada and Alaska...." Nonsense. Big bears(including Polar) and moose have been hunted here for eons with the .303 British with no fuss.
"...a deer at 600 - 800 yards..." Way too far for anybody to be taking a hunting shot. A 180 grain .300 Win Mag sighted in 3" high at 100 drops 25" at 500 yards.

[RC20]

Clearly 30-06. 300 will beat you up, burns lots of powder, wears out a barrel a lot faster.

With the Remington you can replace the barrel down the road with an aftermarket Remage (with a nut).

Go with lower weight ELD bullets and you can shoot 1000 yards fine. 600 is easy for an -06.

I do have to laugh about the following. Someone from Nebraska telling people in AK they didn't know what they were doing shooting all those moose and bear with a 30-06.

30-06 is more than capable for either. From WWI on 30-06 was the State Caliber. I would guess its taken more game in AK than all the rest of the calibers combined.

My step dads father killed 6 or 8 Grizzly bears (homestead, bears not welcome). One picture the head was big as the hood of the Jeep. One of those sweet interior AK spots where they get as bit as the Coastal Bears.

Unless you are intended to shoot targets at extreme ranges, I would suggest you drop the idea a .300 Anything Magnum. Yeah, they have high velocities and stuff, but they are not needed for much in the contiguous 48 states, and they have too small a caliber for Canada and Alaska.

For normal hunting in the continental U. S., you could do worse than a .30 W.C.F. rifle. To give yourself some 'margin' a .308 Winchester or .3006 are great. I prefer the small to middle metrics as a general purpose caliber. 6.5 Swede (with heavy bullets) will do for everything from elk on down, and probably the larger animals if not angry and charging.

For Moose and larger animals under ANY conditions, I'd go for .35 caliber rifles of the .358 Winchester and higher yield types.

[Pathfinder45]

And then there's the fact that most bolt-action rifles will hold more 30-'06 cartridges in the magazine than the same model in magnum calibers; in case it matters to anyone.

[jmr40]

Neither.

From an 8 lb rifle a 300 WM generates around 30 ft lbs of recoil, a 30-06 about 20 ft lbs recoil and a 308 about 15 ft lbs recoil. At only 600 yards a 308 will do exactly the same thing with 1/2 the recoil and powder as 300 WM and about 25% less recoil and powder than 30-06.

As a hunting cartridge a 180 gr 30 caliber bullet impacting at 2000 fps will kill any animal in the lower 48. A 308 still has 2000 fps out to 450 yards, a 30-06 to 500 and a 300 WM only gets you to 550.

The 300 WM would be a possibility if shooting targets past 2000 yards, A 308 will get you to almost 1000, while a 30-06 will easily reach 1000-1200.

I know lots of guys get tired of hearing it, but for target shooting out to a mile the 6.5 CM beats 30-06 and 308 with only about 12 ft lbs recoil. And the 300 WM doesn't do anything better until you get past 2000 yards.

[old roper]

M88, You have 26" barrel on 30-06 and should be good for what you want. I've got 26" on one of my 30-06. Good luck.

[RC20]

I know lots of guys get tired of hearing it, but for target shooting out to a mile the 6.5 CM beats 30-06 and 308 with only about 12 ft lbs recoil. And the 300 WM doesn't do anything better until you get past 2000 yards.

By beats I assume maintaining speed vs affect?

Can't disagree with that. That is why 6.5 is not a fad, its been there all along, just never realized until the CM thingy came along.

It is just getting its just rewards now after being ignored. Target wise 6.5 will fade as the fad moves around but target alwyas has done that. As far as a very capable all around cartridge , in a lot of ways it rivals the 06 (which continues to be my favorite)

[Drm50]

I like both 308 & 30/06, have taken a lot of deer with both. I never did like the
300WM because of short neck. I've had several of them mostly Rem 700s and
accuracy wasn't impressive. The best shooting 300WM I owned was a H&R Ultra
rifle. I know it's not one of the two choices but I've had good luck with 300H&H.
A little less pizazz than 300WN but the neck makes the difference for accuracy
in my opinion. The H&H was a popular long range target caliber for a long time.

[gw44]

If it is going to be a hunting gun the 30.06 would be the one for me !!!