Cast Bullets Fouling

bamiller · April 2, 2013, 08:49 AM

This question has probably been ask here before but my preliminary search doesn't bring up an answer to my specific question. Does or doesn't commercially manufacturered cast lead bullets (not FMJ, plated, etc.) foul a barrel to the point of where a normal cleaning (with Safari CLP in my case) after each range visit will not remove? I have been using Precision Delta FMJ and Berry's plated exclusively to this point but with prices skyrocketing and availability spotty I was thinking about switching to cast.

.22lr · April 2, 2013, 10:04 AM

YES!
NO!

There is no simple answer! The issue is that there are many variables. Throat diameter, barrel diameter, powder type and charge weight, the brinell hardness of the alloy used for the cast, the design of the bullet, the lubricant hardness and quantity, barrel quality, and many many more issues can have a bearing on leading.

The fact that the ammunition you want to use is commercially loaded doesn't do anything to mitigate the above variables.

If you do experience leading a useful tool is the Lewis Lead Remover.

The best advice I can give is to read the cast bullets notes page by the Los Angeles Silhouette Club. The link contains excellent information!
Other good links for cast bullet info:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...-and-Reloading

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/

Hope this helps.

lamarw · April 2, 2013, 10:24 AM

Berry's is pretty much out of stock on everything currently and not taking orders. You can check their web site for available bullets. Good Luck since there is not much there.

As I posted a couple of days ago as an alert to other reloaders, Precision Delta is taking orders, but their lead time is 18 + weeks. You are looking at August as the earliest delivery. Best get your order in now and wait. The only good news is they will take orders and they do not charge your credit card until they ship you order.

I am not out yet, but I am looking for a source for .380 bullets either plated or FMJ bullets. Let us know if you know of one. I want to place an order even if it is a long wait. As I said in the first para. above, Berry's will not accept an order.

WESHOOT2 · April 2, 2013, 10:32 AM

I rarely clean my lead-shooting bores. Accuracy degradation determines schedule.

But first....I 'season' those bores. I first render them literally squeaky-clean (you know, when a tightly fitted patch squeaks as it's driven through the bore).
Then I saturate a clean patch with Tertragun Oil (yes it smells horrific) and swab the bore until excess drips out.
Then I set it aside until it dries (patience demanded).
After it dries I run a clean dry patch through and commence shootin'.

I normally get a few years / 10K rds before more cleaning required.

searcher4851 · April 2, 2013, 10:54 AM

Probably the most important thing about shooting cast bullets is the bullet to bore fit. A properly sized bullet for your bore will be the biggest factor in keeping leading to a minimum. Lead hardness, lube, and pressure all factor in, but bullet fit will have the largest overall effect.
Slug your bore and go from there.

rclark · April 2, 2013, 11:08 AM

All I shoot is cast for all the revolver cartridges that I shoot. All the variables apply apply above, but as stated above 'bullet fit will have the largest overall effect'. Nor do you want to shoot soft bullets to fast, or hard bullets to slow.... You don't want hot gasses going around the bullet which is what contributes mostly to leading. You want to seal the bore. I shoot from 600fps to 1300fps (as fast as I have pushed to date) with no leading and no gas checks.

I haven't went to the extremes that WESHOOT2 says above, and still get good results. Normally I just go out and shoot. Check for leading... Take steps if there is in excess. I have had to fire lap a couple barrels to remove constrictions, opened up the throats on others, and change forcing cone angle to 11 degrees... Others were fine out of the box....

Note I don't shoot semi-autos, but I am sure the principles still apply.

bamiller · April 2, 2013, 12:17 PM

Wow I didn't realize it was that involved. Was hoping for a clear yes or no answer. I did load a few rounds (100) with cast bullets and shot side-by-side with some loaded with Berry's plated in my Glock 23. Seemed like the cast had a little more "snap" than the plated. Cleaned the Glock with CLP when I got home, as I always do, and didn't noticed any fouling.

GP100man · April 2, 2013, 07:10 PM

If the bullets are cast or sized undersize leading is garentted ,as gasses will escape & cut around & down the side of the bullet in the bore.Enuff of this & the bore will look smeared from end to end.

If the bullets are pushed too hard(fast) the lead will not grab the rifling(skid) & the above is invited also. If paying attention this will look like slivers in the rifling if checked before too much gas cutting .

Lead bullets that fit will seal the barrel better & pressures will be higher than it`s jacketed counter part, will not allow gas cutting & be titer at the forcing cone ,thus helpin eliminate skidding .

Bore size is very iimportant to know , .001 or 2 over (if they`ll chamber)is what usually works .

I size to what will reliably chamber & let the chamber/bore do the rest.

kimbers rule · April 2, 2013, 07:55 PM

I've had terrible leading with bullets with a beveled base. Took me a while to figure it out because everything else was matched up right. The gasses can go around the bevel at the forcing cone and lead the bore in a hurry. Now I only use flat base bullets in revolvers.

TimSr · April 3, 2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Wow I didn't realize it was that involved. Was hoping for a clear yes or no answer.

Here is the simple answer. Cast bullets do not foul barrels unless there is a problem or error.

Most the things people are listing are possible problems or errors that could cause barrel fouling. If you are buying cast bullets from a reputable source, and shooting them in common calibers, in common modern guns, and following published load data, you are very unlikely to eno****er any of them, especially if you are talking about pistol rounds.

I've never seen cast bullets lead one of my barrels since I accidentally picked up some "cold swaged" bullets for .357 that were lead, and not cast.

It would be easier to answer if we knew what calibers and guns you were considering.

April 2, 2013, 08:49 AM	#1
bamiller Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 455	Cast Bullets Fouling This question has probably been ask here before but my preliminary search doesn't bring up an answer to my specific question. Does or doesn't commercially manufacturered cast lead bullets (not FMJ, plated, etc.) foul a barrel to the point of where a normal cleaning (with Safari CLP in my case) after each range visit will not remove? I have been using Precision Delta FMJ and Berry's plated exclusively to this point but with prices skyrocketing and availability spotty I was thinking about switching to cast.

April 2, 2013, 10:32 AM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	rocket science vs I gotta lotta guns that I wanna shoot not clean I rarely clean my lead-shooting bores. Accuracy degradation determines schedule. But first....I 'season' those bores. I first render them literally squeaky-clean (you know, when a tightly fitted patch squeaks as it's driven through the bore). Then I saturate a clean patch with Tertragun Oil (yes it smells horrific) and swab the bore until excess drips out. Then I set it aside until it dries (patience demanded). After it dries I run a clean dry patch through and commence shootin'. I normally get a few years / 10K rds before more cleaning required. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 2, 2013, 11:08 AM	#6
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	All I shoot is cast for all the revolver cartridges that I shoot. All the variables apply apply above, but as stated above 'bullet fit will have the largest overall effect'. Nor do you want to shoot soft bullets to fast, or hard bullets to slow.... You don't want hot gasses going around the bullet which is what contributes mostly to leading. You want to seal the bore. I shoot from 600fps to 1300fps (as fast as I have pushed to date) with no leading and no gas checks. I haven't went to the extremes that WESHOOT2 says above, and still get good results. Normally I just go out and shoot. Check for leading... Take steps if there is in excess. I have had to fire lap a couple barrels to remove constrictions, opened up the throats on others, and change forcing cone angle to 11 degrees... Others were fine out of the box.... Note I don't shoot semi-autos, but I am sure the principles still apply. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

April 2, 2013, 07:10 PM	#8
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	If the bullets are cast or sized undersize leading is garentted ,as gasses will escape & cut around & down the side of the bullet in the bore.Enuff of this & the bore will look smeared from end to end. If the bullets are pushed too hard(fast) the lead will not grab the rifling(skid) & the above is invited also. If paying attention this will look like slivers in the rifling if checked before too much gas cutting . Lead bullets that fit will seal the barrel better & pressures will be higher than it`s jacketed counter part, will not allow gas cutting & be titer at the forcing cone ,thus helpin eliminate skidding . Bore size is very iimportant to know , .001 or 2 over (if they`ll chamber)is what usually works . I size to what will reliably chamber & let the chamber/bore do the rest. __________________ GP100man

April 2, 2013, 10:04 AM	#2
.22lr Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2007 Posts: 245	YES! NO! There is no simple answer! The issue is that there are many variables. Throat diameter, barrel diameter, powder type and charge weight, the brinell hardness of the alloy used for the cast, the design of the bullet, the lubricant hardness and quantity, barrel quality, and many many more issues can have a bearing on leading. The fact that the ammunition you want to use is commercially loaded doesn't do anything to mitigate the above variables. If you do experience leading a useful tool is the Lewis Lead Remover. The best advice I can give is to read the cast bullets notes page by the Los Angeles Silhouette Club. The link contains excellent information! Other good links for cast bullet info: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...-and-Reloading http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/ Hope this helps.

April 2, 2013, 10:24 AM	#3
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	Berry's is pretty much out of stock on everything currently and not taking orders. You can check their web site for available bullets. Good Luck since there is not much there. As I posted a couple of days ago as an alert to other reloaders, Precision Delta is taking orders, but their lead time is 18 + weeks. You are looking at August as the earliest delivery. Best get your order in now and wait. The only good news is they will take orders and they do not charge your credit card until they ship you order. I am not out yet, but I am looking for a source for .380 bullets either plated or FMJ bullets. Let us know if you know of one. I want to place an order even if it is a long wait. As I said in the first para. above, Berry's will not accept an order.

April 2, 2013, 10:54 AM	#5
searcher4851 Junior Member Join Date: March 16, 2012 Posts: 5	Probably the most important thing about shooting cast bullets is the bullet to bore fit. A properly sized bullet for your bore will be the biggest factor in keeping leading to a minimum. Lead hardness, lube, and pressure all factor in, but bullet fit will have the largest overall effect. Slug your bore and go from there.

April 2, 2013, 12:17 PM	#7
bamiller Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 455	Wow I didn't realize it was that involved. Was hoping for a clear yes or no answer. I did load a few rounds (100) with cast bullets and shot side-by-side with some loaded with Berry's plated in my Glock 23. Seemed like the cast had a little more "snap" than the plated. Cleaned the Glock with CLP when I got home, as I always do, and didn't noticed any fouling.

April 2, 2013, 07:55 PM	#9
kimbers rule Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: State of Jefferson Posts: 95	I've had terrible leading with bullets with a beveled base. Took me a while to figure it out because everything else was matched up right. The gasses can go around the bevel at the forcing cone and lead the bore in a hurry. Now I only use flat base bullets in revolvers.