How do I clean LIVE 7.62x54r dirty ammo ?

[UpandAtIt]

I have about 150 rounds of LIVE Chk 44 grain training rounds that are very dirty and gunged up cases/bullets and head. I want to clean them before I shoot them out of my M44 Scout with a nice clean lapped chamber.

The gunge is mostly near the shoulder and neck but the head and around the primers are gunged up and laquer is thick.

What is the best method of cleaning live rounds?

[ohen cepel]

Don't look bad to me.

However, if it bothers you Flitz on a cloth will work. You could put them in a tumbler if you have one. However, that is a debatable idea.

[Locoweed]

I would run them through my tumbler for an hour or two.

[palabman]

As others have said... tumble it.

[Crankylove]

Tumble it. Or, if you are a little hesitant do try the tumbler, an S.O.S pad (the green plastic ones) and a little laquer thinner.

[FrankenMauser]

Tumble it.

[briandg]

I would never suggest tumbling live ammunition such as 5.56 with FMJ, just based on the remote possibility of a primer discharge, but in this case, I see very little risk.

Fill that pot completely full of media, to dampen as much of the vibration as possible. Just in the Billion to one shot that it may set off a primer, do it somewhere safe, and don't hang around eyeballing it.

[briandg]

BTW, that really looks more like laquered steel than it does tarnished brass. have you checked it with a magnet?

[Bamashooter]

i dont think they look so bad i wouldnt fire them. i agree that it looks like laquered steel cases. they all look grungy anyway. wipe em dowm with a clean cloth and some rem-oil and shoot them dudes.
ps. dont leave the oil on the cartridge. use the rem-oil to clean off the "grunge". then shoot them dudes. i dont think anything is wrong with them personally, not from the picture you provided.

[briandg]

Just for the record, do not oil cases when you shoot. Oiled brass will not grab the walls of the chamber when fired, and will expand backward excessively.

This is one of the reasons that the s+w 22 jet failed.

Oil in a chamber on a high pressure rifle allows more pressure to be exerted on the bolt face, and i've read that it can eventually lead to failure if done on a constant basis.

[Ozzieman]

Are those reloads,,, they look like they might be.
If they are steel cases and reloads don’t fire them. Do you know any history on them? Like the others here, I would tumble them. I have tumbled loaded WW2 30-06 military brass and others without any problems.

[UpandAtIt]

They are Bi-Metal (steel and some other alloy). I have other rounds that are laqured and this does not look like laquer, just looks like grunge. No I am not comfy shooting these from a slugged and lapped chamber, spent too much money on the pro lapping job to ruin it with unknown grunge.

They are NOT reloads, they are Chech 7.62x54r 44gr training rounds, grey tipped, they were made in 1964. The bullet is hollow core and out to 100 yards they give close to ball ballistics, after 100 yards they lose energy fast. The primer is laqured. They are also corrosive primers as is most Mosin-Naggy milsurp rounds. They are a joy to shoot and make it almost like shooting a .22 mag and are fairly accurate out to 100 yards.

Yes I have heard many tails of not to oil mil-surp brass as it will expand into the bolt and not the walls or forward into the chamber and bore.

I have a tumbler and corn media, I will try a small load of them first. Being Mil-Surp, I would imagine the primers are fairly sturdy and not prone to light taps to fire. I will do it in the garage and walk away.

Thanks for all the help

[res45]

They don't need cleaning they need shooting.

[Mal H]

Originally Posted by res45

+1 on what UpandAtIt said they don't need cleaning they need shooting.

He's the one who asked the original question.

I would simply clean them with a cloth, maybe with a bit of relatively inert cleaner sprayed on the cloth (e.g., brake cleaner or alcohol).

150 rounds isn't a lot - you would have been done with them a few minutes after you posted your first post.

[res45]

Fixed it.

[Uncle Buck]

I have tumbled loaded WW2 30-06 military brass and others without any problems.

Same here. Never had any problems with them afterwards, except the shiny cases drove my buddy nutz! He wanted to know where I got such good looking ammo from.

[Crankylove]

Fill that pot completely full of media, to dampen as much of the vibration as possible

Wouldn't that defeat the whole point of putting them in the tumbler?

[FrankenMauser]

I would never suggest tumbling live ammunition such as 5.56 with FMJ, just based on the remote possibility of a primer discharge, but in this case, I see very little risk.

I can only assume your "possibility of a primer discharge" is referring to the FMJ bullets. Vibration in media cannot create the needed energy to drive a FMJ round into the primer of another cartridge. Worrying about a discharge in a tumbler, because of FMJ bullets, is like worrying about your house exploding... because you vacuumed smokeless powder.

[animal]

I seem to recall hearing that you shouldn’t tumble live rounds because of damage to the powder … some of it turning to dust and increasing the burn rate (and pressure). Sounded fishy but possible (seems like they would have to be shaken a really long time for this to come into play )… Anybody know the truth about this one ?

150 rounds ? I’d wipe ‘em.

Will say this : I picked up about 10,000 rounds of .22 short for next to nothing because they were a gritty nasty mess. Wiped off a few and they were fine underneath, but they’re really small for fat fingers.
I got the bright (NOT) idea to toss ‘em into the tumbler as I figured the odds of one going off were remote. It was the old days so media was walnut shells and the tumbler was a home-made rotary. Sure enough, no problems with discharge, but the dust from the walnut shells just caked on top of the grunge… hadn’t thought about the lube coat on the bullets… a brain-fart that caused a LOT more work wiping.

[Scorch]

I want to clean them before I shoot them out of my M44 Scout with a nice clean lapped chamber.

Lapped chamber?????? Hmmmmmm, it must be a Mosin-Nagant thing.

The absolute best way to clean them up is to disassemble them first, then clean and reload as necessary. Disassembly consists of:
a) insert the cartridge you intend to disassemble into "a nice clean lapped chamber".
b) close the bolt carefully so as not to scatter any of the "gunge" around inside the "nice clean lapped chamber".
c) pulling the ammunition dissassembly lever located directly below the bolt handle.
d) lifting the bolt handle and ejecting case to the now disassembled round.
e) repeat as needed.

Works every time.

[UpandAtIt]

<shrugs> I was asking an honest question.... there is always some SA in th bunch. I tumbled them and they came out great, gonna shoot em this coming weekend.

Thanks for all your help folks...

[rattletrap1970]

Just tumble it. Some guy on one of the boards did a test and loaded up a control batch of ammo, then tumbled a batch for 1 hour up to 24 hours. I think he might have done one batch for 36 hours. he chronographed the batches and there was no appreciable difference in velocity.

[Mal H]

Did he do it for all types of powders or at least a good sample of each type (ball, stick, flake, etc.)? Did he do it with varying amounts of powder in the cases? How fast did his vibratory cleaner operate? How much buffer (cleaning media) was in the bowl?

You see where I'm going here, I'm sure. Just because one person tested an unknown powder with unknown test parameters doesn't make for a general and universal rule that vibrating a loaded round for a long time will not affect the powder.

[rattletrap1970]

If I remember correctly he tried several powders. I do not remember which.

Ball and flake come to mind.

However, looking at the photos this time, it looks like laquered steel case ammo. See down toward the base, the line.

I would verify that a magnet does not stick to it.

[briandg]

Modern smokeless powder is a plastic. that is all it is, a plastic.

Black powder is compressed dust, of course, black powder will dust off.

Your modern smokeless powder should not, even under hundreds of hours of tumbling, disintegrate. In fact, they are run through cement mixer like devices during manufacture at various stages.

I'm not saying that there may at some point be a risk. It seems to me that PB and other older numbers were actually compressed sticks, but ball powder is actually a liquid plastic that is sprayed. Stick and most flake are extruded in a or jellied or slurried form and either chopped or sliced.

Being antique rounds, who knows, it may actually be a concern, but the we're talking about extremely limited possibilities.

I will agree with you that the possibility needs to be addressed, like I addressed the very, very slim chance that a 5.56 round could set off a primer. sure, it can be done, but I'm not going to do it.