9mmP SD load for short (3") barrel?

[Netzapper]

I've hand loaded rifle ammo for years, but I'm about to make the plunge into 9mm since I'm shooting more lately. I've got a handle on equipment, but I'm trying to figure out where to start with a load.

I have several manuals, but all of them are doped for a full-length handgun barrel. The weapon I'm loading for has a 3" barrel (SA EMP). It is specifically *not* rated for commercial +P or +P+ loads.

I'm trying to get as hot a self-defense load as I can before I start cracking cases in the almost-but-not-quite-fully-supported chamber. But I don't think just pulling the hottest load out of my books is going to get me what I want; I think it's going to get me a giant fireball and mediocre chrony results.

I'd rather have an efficient, low-flash, low-smoke, clean-burning load at the limits of what my barrel can realistically harness than a 2-foot fireball that annoys the dude in the next lane.

I had thought to base something around the Speer Gold Dot Short Bbl projectile, but they're apparently out of stock everywhere. So, I'm open to any 147gr. JHP load. (I've carried Federal HS JHP factory ammo for years.)

If I'm using a heavy bullet, do I want very quick burning powder? I've heard a theory that a heavier bullet spends more time in a (short) barrel and so you should use a slower powder than you would with a light bullet. But isn't the general approach to use faster-burning powders in shorter barrels?

EDIT: I'm also comfortable with EFMJ bullets. I value penetration over expansion anyway.

[dwhite]

I'm trying to get as hot a self-defense load as I can before I start cracking cases in the almost-but-not-quite-fully-supported chamber. But I don't think just pulling the hottest load out of my books is going to get me what I want; I think it's going to get me a giant fireball and mediocre chrony results.

Sounds like you need a.38 Super or a .45 acp. I always wonder why people buy mouse guns and want to turn them into planet wreckers rather than just buying something more powerful to start.

All the Best,
D. White

[Netzapper]

I guess I didn't know it was unreasonable to expect to optimize performance within the fixed envelope parameters given. I guess some people just don't like problem solving.

[Kframe]

I think the point was that any 3" gun will have the same SAAMI max rating (within an accepted range) as a longer barreled gun, and no 3" barrel is going to be able to deliver full-size velocities, especially at non+P pressures.

The nine relies on velocity to make power and reliable bullet performance downrange. At slow velocities almost every JHP acts like a solid.

Thus the logic given was that in a short gun something with a heavy slug (.45) may be a better choice for some.
...

Personally if I was loading for a short nine I'd look at HS-6 (look for HS-5 data, too).
It likes to burn at the 9x19 pressures and performs well with 125gr .357 rounds out of my snub M640.

[Netzapper]

I like the gun, like shooting it, want to feed it well.

I'm not trying to reach the same velocities as a full-length barrel. That's not possible. I reckon you're right on the SAAMI pressure ratings; but, I've seen cracked cases from firing +P in the EMP; and the manual explicitly states that it's not rated.

I guess what I'm mainly trying to figure out is what powder is most likely to burn completely *inside* the short barrel, and how that choice interacts with a heavier choice of projectile. I'm trying to maximize power while minimizing the amount of useless powder burning in front of the firing line.

I'm also trying to figure out what high-quality JHPs are available to the hand loader.

I apologize for mentioning my goals or intent. But, I kind of figured the first thing people would ask is "what kind of load are you working on?". I'm deeply, morally sorry for not shooting a .45 as God and John Browning intended. I also drive a Japanese car.

[Nick_C_S]

I'd rather have an efficient, low-flash, low-smoke, clean-burning load at the limits of what my barrel can realistically harness than a 2-foot fireball that annoys the dude in the next lane.

First, your approach is like a breath of fresh air. What you are looking for is what I call a "balanced round." That is, a round that is built with a powder correct for the application and the barrel length. This is a concept that seems to be foreign to many. Barrel length is - or at least should be - a huge consideration when crafting a round that is truly correct for the application.

I had thought to base something around the Speer Gold Dot Short Bbl projectile, but they're apparently out of stock everywhere.

You mean Speer #3998? (Edit: Link removed - not applicable)

I managed to grab 500 of them a few months back. So they do pop up from time to time. Demand for them for loaded ammunition is so high, that they are hard to find for sure. At any rate, they are a great choice - the best IMO. One thing that makes them so great is you don't have to load them up to +P levels to get them to perform and expand properly. Just what you're looking for. I would suggest finding some other jacketed 124's to get you started on some load workups until you can find the real deal.

I chronographed Speer's 124 Gold Dot (non+P - loaded ammunition) and they yielded 1048 fps through a 3.7" bbl. I then created an emulation round using AA5 as the propellant. It worked great. AA5 would be my recommended powder for the application - if you can find it. I haven't seen AA2, 5, 7, or 9 anywhere in over a year. Another great choice would probably be Ramshot Silhouette - which is close to AA5, except with a flash suppressant. I've never loaded with it tough.

So, I'm open to any 147gr. JHP load.

I'm not a fan of 147's for SD in 9mm in a short barrel. Now I do like 147's for general shooting practice. They tend to be accurate and consistent. But I have performance concerns with a short barrel 9mm. For SD, I view 147's as a 357 Sig bullet.

If I'm using a heavy bullet, do I want very quick burning powder?

Umm, yes and no. Fast powders under heavy bullets tend to yield very clean and consistent shooters. But high velocity? No. So they're great for practice - especially in short barrel applications - but they generally fall short for SD. A medium speed powder will yield more velocity and still won't flash and recoil excessively.

[skizzums]

I load my own SD rounds, and am always a little annoyed that NONE of the manuals ever show loads coming close to the MAX pressure of 38.5KPI for a +p round. you just gotta play with it.

I have pretty much always used hornadays jhp exclusively for SD hand loading, but I recently cam across some 147gr golden sabres...man are they some sweet shooting rounds. I am loading for a 3" barrel as well. I will share my load that I {WORKED} up to.

WARNING: do not attempt is load!!!! it is over published maximum data and may cause damage to firearm or even loss of life or limb. this is for educational purposes only(good enough?)
6.6gr HS-6
CCI Mag Primer
1.115 OAL 147gr Golden Sabre
no over pressure signs whatsoever, and wasn't even uncomfortable to shoot. I put 100 rounds through my carry gun yesterday an they were the most accurate load I have used t date, and I have loaded just about everything under the sun. you need to work up your own loads for your gun and be VERY careful about pressure signs and I wouldn't even try seriously hot loads without having a FULLY supported chamber, too risky in my opinion in a glock or similar barrel profile


http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/12874

these bullets have a strange wide ring around the base of the bullet(driving band as they call it), it creates a bulge in the case after seating, I was concerned about chambering issues because of it, but they ran great, I mean really great. I hope to get some expansion/penetration testing done this weekend with it. and will likely be ordering lots more

[Netzapper]

Nick_C_S, you linked to the 124gr. version of the 4002's I was looking at.

I've run 147's for years, but I'm not a dogmatic man. If 124 or 135 is the perceived sweet spot, I'm all ears to suggestions built around such a bullet. I guess I'm more interested in what I can do to optimize for the barrel than I am in sticking to a bullet weight.

(Except that I'm not interested in hyper-velocity nonsense. Part of what I need is wildlife defense, and no 105gr. plastic bucket of bb's or frangible alloy is going to even annoy a moose. EDIT: Note: I don't *really* care about moose stopping power, just a turn of speech.)

[Nick_C_S]

Oh, the 4002's are a 147gn SB. I see. Oddly, Speer doesn't make a SB specific bullet for 124's. Hence, my confusion.

If I were to use a 147 for SD, these 4002's would definitely be it.

[Nick_C_S]

skizzums: Boy howdy, that's an overcharge. Way over Speer's or Hornady's published max.

Not surprised though. Most modern 9mm guns have a good deal of "headroom" built into them.

[Netzapper]

Actually, I'm wrong. That product number is for the standard Gold Dot. They only sell the short-barrel version in .38, .40, and .45 as a component bullet.

I was confused because they apparently make "short barrel" ammunition in 9mmP.

I think I'll just start with the powders y'all suggested, and try out some different JHPs in both 124 and 147.

[skizzums]

if its velocity you want while stayin within the parameters of published maximums, you want "Longshot" for both 125 and 147gr loads. nothing beats it for velocity

[sixgunluv]

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