Frustration at the range today

tpcollins · March 16, 2009, 04:20 PM

A couple of weeks ago, I loaded my first group of 20 cartridges for .243. I picked Nosler's middle charge suggestion of 40.0 grains of Varget shooting their 70 gr BT. After getting my scope settled in, I was impressed with the last group of 5 that I shot at 100 yards. I made these with the ogive set at .075" from the lands - I was a bit chicken to get closer with my first set of loads.

Since then, I returned a set of RCBS dies in favor of the Lee 3 piece set with the collet die. I reran 30 cases back thru the Lee collet and did notice a better concentricity around the necks afterwards. I decided on a simple ladder test and made (5) each ranging from 38.0 gr to 40.5 gr of Varget in .5 gr increments. And getting braver I lengthen the ogive to lands to within .035" away from the lands.

Disaster - starting with the 38.0 gr charges, everything group 1 1/2"-2" to the right. I shot the first 15 rounds this way and everything stayed right so I moved the crosshairs 4 clicks left and things got much better. However, I could not get the grouping as I did a few weeks ago. But the 40.0 gr charge still seems to be the best.

My problem was I had too many flyers. Besides the change in charges as well as .040" closer to the lands, I found myself fighting the shooting rest more than ever (Lead Sled knockoff). I could not resight the target without alot of constant manipulating/readjusting the rest. Half the time I was getting frustrated and held the rifle (adding torque ??) against it to get the crosshairs on target quicker. I'm hoping that this rifle rest is creating the accuracy problems that I'm blaming on my reloads. My ogive to base measurements for these 30 rounds only varied .0025" apart which was better than my first group with the RCBS dies. I might dig out my old Outers Varmiter rifle rest, I don't know why I bought this new one.

VaFisher · March 16, 2009, 04:43 PM

Sounds like operator problems figgured into what you are looking for. In order for you to get perfect group information things need to be as perfect as you can make them through out the loading and shooting. Go back and start over and remember all rifles shoot different and it may be you are not using the right combination to get the right load so it may require changing powder or bullets. Some .243 rifle do not like certain bullets, I know from experience so keep at it until you hit on what makes you happy.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · March 16, 2009, 07:46 PM

VaFisher was on when he said operator problems. Also, with the use of ladder tests, start making batches with the starting load and work up to the max. You only tested the difference between 2.5 grains of powder charge. Within this charge weight your barrel resonance may be at the tip of your barrel as your bullet is exiting the muzzle. Ladder tests are used to find the sweet spot as far as the way your barrel resonates with different charge weights. I think you may have skimped out a little by only testing 38-40.5 grains. With my 243 I did a ladder test using .3grn increments starting at the starting load and going up to the max load...watching for pressure signs. You may find that 41 grns suits you well. Also, look at point of impact. The groups that are the tightest and repeatable are the best. Then you can adjust your crosshairs to this point of impact. Good luck...and don't be afraid to seat that bullet on the lands....but be sure to start with the starting load and work up, being ever vigilant for signs of excessive pressure. Good luck!!

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · March 16, 2009, 08:12 PM

G'day tpcollins. It might pay to look at your post again and pay particular attention to the location of the decimal points. It looks as if they might be in the wrong pl.ace

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · March 16, 2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

G'day tpcollins. It might pay to look at your post again and pay particular attention to the location of the decimal points. It looks as if they might be in the wrong pl.ace

.5 grain increments is what he meant...at least I hope!

One other thing I thought of....when doing a ladder test, you MUST keep your OAL consistent. Once you figure out your charge weight, THEN fool with your OAL. Again, do this in smaller increments. I figured mine out using .005" increments...but I am very anal...so .010" may ok too.

Inspector3711 · March 16, 2009, 09:03 PM

Yep... Do the half grain increments, I do at least ten of each. See what groups best, then work on seating depth changes on other range trips.. One thing that helped me was buying the tools to uniform my primer pockets.

March 16, 2009, 04:20 PM	#1
tpcollins Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 558	Frustration at the range today A couple of weeks ago, I loaded my first group of 20 cartridges for .243. I picked Nosler's middle charge suggestion of 40.0 grains of Varget shooting their 70 gr BT. After getting my scope settled in, I was impressed with the last group of 5 that I shot at 100 yards. I made these with the ogive set at .075" from the lands - I was a bit chicken to get closer with my first set of loads. Since then, I returned a set of RCBS dies in favor of the Lee 3 piece set with the collet die. I reran 30 cases back thru the Lee collet and did notice a better concentricity around the necks afterwards. I decided on a simple ladder test and made (5) each ranging from 38.0 gr to 40.5 gr of Varget in .5 gr increments. And getting braver I lengthen the ogive to lands to within .035" away from the lands. Disaster - starting with the 38.0 gr charges, everything group 1 1/2"-2" to the right. I shot the first 15 rounds this way and everything stayed right so I moved the crosshairs 4 clicks left and things got much better. However, I could not get the grouping as I did a few weeks ago. But the 40.0 gr charge still seems to be the best. My problem was I had too many flyers. Besides the change in charges as well as .040" closer to the lands, I found myself fighting the shooting rest more than ever (Lead Sled knockoff). I could not resight the target without alot of constant manipulating/readjusting the rest. Half the time I was getting frustrated and held the rifle (adding torque ??) against it to get the crosshairs on target quicker. I'm hoping that this rifle rest is creating the accuracy problems that I'm blaming on my reloads. My ogive to base measurements for these 30 rounds only varied .0025" apart which was better than my first group with the RCBS dies. I might dig out my old Outers Varmiter rifle rest, I don't know why I bought this new one. Last edited by tpcollins; March 16, 2009 at 09:21 PM.

March 16, 2009, 07:46 PM	#3
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	VaFisher was on when he said operator problems. Also, with the use of ladder tests, start making batches with the starting load and work up to the max. You only tested the difference between 2.5 grains of powder charge. Within this charge weight your barrel resonance may be at the tip of your barrel as your bullet is exiting the muzzle. Ladder tests are used to find the sweet spot as far as the way your barrel resonates with different charge weights. I think you may have skimped out a little by only testing 38-40.5 grains. With my 243 I did a ladder test using .3grn increments starting at the starting load and going up to the max load...watching for pressure signs. You may find that 41 grns suits you well. Also, look at point of impact. The groups that are the tightest and repeatable are the best. Then you can adjust your crosshairs to this point of impact. Good luck...and don't be afraid to seat that bullet on the lands....but be sure to start with the starting load and work up, being ever vigilant for signs of excessive pressure. Good luck!! __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

March 16, 2009, 08:12 PM	#4
SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Location: Far Nth Wst QLD Australia Posts: 992	G'day tpcollins. It might pay to look at your post again and pay particular attention to the location of the decimal points. It looks as if they might be in the wrong pl.ace __________________ If you're not confused, you're not trying hard enough! When you're confused, I'll try to use smaller words!!!

March 16, 2009, 09:03 PM	#6
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Yep... Do the half grain increments, I do at least ten of each. See what groups best, then work on seating depth changes on other range trips.. One thing that helped me was buying the tools to uniform my primer pockets. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

March 16, 2009, 04:43 PM	#2
VaFisher Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 596	Sounds like operator problems figgured into what you are looking for. In order for you to get perfect group information things need to be as perfect as you can make them through out the loading and shooting. Go back and start over and remember all rifles shoot different and it may be you are not using the right combination to get the right load so it may require changing powder or bullets. Some .243 rifle do not like certain bullets, I know from experience so keep at it until you hit on what makes you happy.