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Old January 9, 2017, 01:48 PM   #1
TLJohnson
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Conical Bullets for 1858 NMA

Howdy all, I just registered and have a question about conical bullets for an 1858 New Model Army with a steel frame.

Does anyone sell small quantities of 50 to 100 .450 x 200 grain round nose conical bullets? If so, where can I purchase them?

Please note, I am not interested in purchasing a Lee mold to cast bullets at this time. Thanks.
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Old January 9, 2017, 02:48 PM   #2
JACKlangrishe
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I think Track of the Wolf is highly regarded for conicals.
Might also try Dixie Gun Works and Cabela's.

As you indicated, almost all sources are going to encourage you to cast your own, since the weight of the bullets hikes the shipping cost considerably, and you'll be paying through the nose even if shipping were free (as compared to casting your own).

Do you have a local outlet nearby like Bass Pro Shops? Might save on the shipping that way.
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Old January 9, 2017, 03:09 PM   #3
TLJohnson
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The only conicals I've seen online are at Dixie Gun Works, offered by Buffalo, but are no longer in stock and I assume have been discontinued.

Regarding "the weight of the bullets hikes the shipping cost considerably." There seems to be no shortage of 200-250 grain bullets available for shooters who are handloading the .45 ACP cartridge; yet, by comparison, nothing available for the BP crowd regarding conicals.

Anyway, I thought I would ask. Thanks.
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Old January 9, 2017, 03:12 PM   #4
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One of these won't fit the bill from track? I know the bottom is a hollow base minie and might not be what your looking for.



Also, this- https://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/...g/page_430.pdf

Others will probably chime in and steer you in the right direction.
I'm not the most experienced. yet.

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; January 9, 2017 at 03:40 PM.
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Old January 9, 2017, 03:23 PM   #5
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Also, from what I understand, it's not just the shipping cost but the handling of the package that is a concern. Especially with minies, I've read it doesn't take much to warp the soft lead skirts in transit.

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; January 9, 2017 at 03:36 PM.
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Old January 9, 2017, 03:49 PM   #6
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Do they need to be a RN design or can they be a SWC? DD4lifeusmc sells a 190 grn bullet. His prices are very reasonable and he sells quite a bit of various BP stuff.

If you have a Pietta your chambers are likely .446". And if it's an Uberti they are likely .450".

For cap and ball you want a rebated base that slips into the chamber on its own with no less than chamber diameter for a friction fit. Typically they are slightly oversized to cut a ring, but one fellow has resized his to chamber diameter and finds they hold in place just fine under recoil.

Last edited by rodwhaincamo; January 9, 2017 at 03:57 PM.
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Old January 9, 2017, 06:17 PM   #7
TLJohnson
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Rod - do you know if "DD4lifeusmc" has a website? I think a SWC would work if its .450

I initially thought about substituting a .45 ACP lead bullet in .452, but decided against it, since it is too big and the lead is much harder on the brinnel scale, which would make it a hassle trying to seat the bullet.
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Old January 9, 2017, 06:22 PM   #8
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Jack - thanks for the information and link. The only thing I have been able to pull up on Track of the Wolf in reference to swaged conical lead bullets (Bullet-45-200-ML) is the Lee Bullet Mold they sell at the following link.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...98/1/LEE-90382

Apparently, there is a market for conical bullet molds, but not for the actual bullets themselves! My guess is while there are hundreds of thousands of .45 ACP shooters, there is only small pool of BP enthusiasts shooting the conical bullets over the round balls. Therefore, it isn't profitable to manufacture them like the .45 ACP bullets.
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Old January 9, 2017, 07:40 PM   #9
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DD4lifeusmc can usually be found here. http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php

You don't want to use bullets designed for modern guns. They're not rebated or tapered at the base and don't hold enough lube.
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Old January 9, 2017, 08:48 PM   #10
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DD4lifeusmc is good, very reasonable prices, I have purchased bullets from him in the past (.380 round ball) on the 1858remington forum (he also posts here) and you might try Mark Whyte. He makes round balls for cap and ball and Big Lube bullets for black powder cartridge guns.

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

Last edited by Bishop Creek; January 9, 2017 at 08:59 PM.
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Old January 9, 2017, 10:22 PM   #11
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Thanks Bishop and Hawg for the lowdown.
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Old January 10, 2017, 02:43 AM   #12
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Kaido casted his a bit harder than pure. IIRC it was something like 7-9 BHN for repros. I only loaded them in my Ruger but slightly hard shouldn't be a big deal as long as the chambers aren't too small (his repro bullets were .456" then as I'm not sure if he changed that over the years).

I've considered buying the 2% tin stuff from rotometals as I hear it should fill better though run ever so slightly over pure lead (5 BHN).
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Old January 10, 2017, 03:01 AM   #13
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I would encourage you to buy the mold and some lead and find someone you know who casts his own bullets to cast yours.

That's what I did.
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Old January 10, 2017, 07:38 AM   #14
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I, too, would suggest getting into casting. I did as well but because when I got into it there was but one game in town that would supply a boolit with a wide meplat and he sold them for $40/100 + shipping which quickly became $50.

A pound of scrap lead cost me $1/lb and I could make thirty-five of my 195 grn bullets. Buying mostly Lee equipment got me started fairly cheaply. I easily came out ahead and cast quite a few different projectiles now.
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Old January 10, 2017, 12:29 PM   #15
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As I already stated in my opening post, I am not interested in casting bullets.
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Old January 10, 2017, 01:38 PM   #16
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I wasn't either until I had issues finding projectiles to shoot or finding ones I liked were far too expensive (I have an issue with overpaying). These were/are very big deals to me. Not much worse than being ready to go to the range but having nothing to sling downrange...

Since then I've also been punching my own felt wads, making my own Gatofeo #1 lube, and paper cartridges. If there were a way to make good percussion caps and a danger free powder I'd be looking into those as well.
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Old January 10, 2017, 03:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
If there were a way to make good percussion caps and a danger free powder I'd be looking into those as well.
You can get a cap making tool for $45 at .22lr reloader, percussion caps are easy to make, but a bit tedious. You can also use their .22 primer compound for the primer. http://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.my...sion-cap-maker

For making black powder, you can get some potasium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal, use the 75% Kno3, 15% charcoal, and 10% sulfur ratio, (you can simply use 75 grams Kno3, 15 grams charcoal, and 10 grams of sulfur) mix it in a rock tumbler for 8 hours with lead round balls, spritz some water on the powder, rub it through a piece of window screen onto a tray, let it dry and you've got your own black powder. Not dangerous at all.
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Old January 10, 2017, 03:34 PM   #18
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What is used as the priming compound for the caps? I've read the paper toy caps aren't very good and aren't very reliable.

I've also read that if something goes wrong while making BP it can cost you, your family, and your neighbors life, limb, and property.
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Old January 10, 2017, 04:00 PM   #19
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Here it is, http://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.my...iming-compound. I haven't tried this method, but people who use it have great results with it, but it is friction explosive, so I'm hesitant to use it.
I use the roll cap method, and it actually works quite well. with a 5/32 hollow punch or a paper punch, I punch out a roll cap into a small disc, insert it into the cap hull, a pinch of FFFG or finer bp, it only takes a few grains. Then another roll cap on top, seat in with a nail or the like, and you've got a primed cap. I have used it successfully on revolvers and rifles. Not sure what the shelf life is for the caps though.

The thing to remember with black powder is that it isn't friction explosive.
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Old January 10, 2017, 04:26 PM   #20
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any issues with corrosion from the rollcaps on the nipples assuming you thoroughly clean it after shooting?
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Old January 10, 2017, 04:35 PM   #21
BlackPowderBen
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Quote:
any issues with corrosion from the rollcaps on the nipples assuming you thoroughly clean it after shooting?
I haven't had any corrosion issues with the roll caps
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Old January 10, 2017, 04:55 PM   #22
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I have used the toy caps that come in a strip. Just add a spot from a roll of Legends caps and they work pretty well but not as hot as a regular percussion cap and may not set off subs. You could do like Ben said and add another spot from a roll cap and some FFFG and they should set off anything. Don't use the Chinese roll caps, they're weak.
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Old January 11, 2017, 10:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPowderBen
You can get a cap making tool for $45 at .22lr reloader, percussion caps are easy to make, but a bit tedious. You can also use their .22 primer compound for the primer. http://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.my...sion-cap-maker
Just placed an order with them for a cap maker and 2 repriming kits. Free Shipping!
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Old January 11, 2017, 03:29 PM   #24
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Great! Very interested in this.
Please post a full review!

Images and/or video get you extra credit!
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Old January 11, 2017, 10:30 PM   #25
TLJohnson
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Quote:
I wasn't either until I had issues finding projectiles to shoot or finding ones I liked were far too expensive (I have an issue with overpaying). These were/are very big deals to me. Not much worse than being ready to go to the range but having nothing to sling downrange...
I'm not a retiree with a lot of time on my hands looking to cut costs. I have a terrific job and can make a lot more money in the time it will take to cast conical bullets at home.

Quote:
A pound of scrap lead cost me $1/lb and I could make thirty-five of my 195 grn bullets. Buying mostly Lee equipment got me started fairly cheaply. I easily came out ahead and cast quite a few different projectiles now.
Seriously rodwhaincamo, breathing in lead fumes isn't exactly high on my priority list, much less spending my spare time recycling scrap lead.

Thanks anyway.
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