can someone identify this pistol? (Tokarev-ish)

simonrichter · November 11, 2020, 04:10 PM

THIS is the pistol the Vienna assailant carried - is it a Tokarev or some Serbian or Chinese copy?

Jim Watson · November 11, 2020, 04:37 PM

Looks like a Tokarev with homemade thumb rest grip.
As to whether it is a Russian Tokarev or a Chinese Tokarev or a Polish Tokarev, etc., there is no way or knowing without being able to read the markings.

Forte S+W · November 11, 2020, 06:40 PM

It's hard to tell with such a low-res image which is so zoomed out from the pistol, but I presume that it's a Polish Tokarev due to the slide serrations, blued finish, and aftermarket wood grips designed to cover up a removed safety lever.

If it were a Chinese Tokarev then the finish would be more of a greyish tone and the slide serrations would be more conventional straight lines, the latter also applies to the Romanian Tokarev. I also very much doubt that it's a Russian Tokarev since they're extremely rare and AFAIK haven't ever been imported since 1968, so there would be no need for such oversized grips.
However, as I said, it's very hard to tell for sure because the image isn't very good.

simonrichter · November 12, 2020, 11:37 AM

...but it's a 7.62 x 25, not a 9mm variant? In this pic, the ejection port seems rather long for a 9mm...

ballardw · November 12, 2020, 01:30 PM

Way more Tokarevs were made in 7.62x25 than 9mm.

What would make you believe the pistol in question is 9mm? Not much detail but the first picture I can almost see the bottle neck of a 7.62x25 on the round at the top of the magazine.

And I really wonder about the un-fired rifle rounds laying around. They would not normally be un-fired if involved in shooting ...

T. O'Heir · November 12, 2020, 01:58 PM

An Austrian terr isn't likely to use a Chinese Tokarev either. Regardless of the chambering. Like Jim says, it's a Tok with target grips on it. More likely commercial than homemade.
An excellent condition Russian Tok runs $399.95Cdn up here. Probably more of 'em here than ever would be Stateside. Since Clinton, as I recall, made the deal with the Russians to stop the importation of Russian milsurp stuff.

Nodak1858 · November 13, 2020, 09:49 AM

Quote:

It's hard to tell with such a low-res image which is so zoomed out from the pistol, but I presume that it's a Polish Tokarev due to the slide serrations, blued finish, and aftermarket wood grips designed to cover up a removed safety lever.

I have a number of Tokarevs from different countries, I think this is the correct answer.

simonrichter · November 13, 2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

What would make you believe the pistol in question is 9mm? Not much detail but the first picture I can almost see the bottle neck of a 7.62x25 on the round at the top of the magazine.

you nailed it - for some reason I failed to see the mag next to the gun, definitely 7,62 bottleneck ammo!

It's just a more exotic type of ammo, while 9mm is ubiquitous... But maybe other than with the AK, he did get some ammo right with the gun...

jmstr · November 17, 2020, 03:07 AM

Tokarev- definitely.

Polish or Russian: who knows. Supposedly Russia still has a lot of Tokarevs floating around.

Keep in mind that Poland added the safety to comply with export requirements to the USA. From my understanding, a Polish Tokarev bought in Poland would look like a Russian Tokarev- no safety.

Poland is closer to Austria than Russia, so it may be more accessible. However, Russian weapons could have been floating around in the illegal gun market, or from the middle east, and obtained by ISIL before sending them to Austria.

my instinct would be to say 'russian', for some reason: more weapons floating around in middle east also for ISIL to latch on to.

However, not enough evidence to prove anything.

From the grip, I thought it might be a ZASTAVA 57, but the slide isn't Zastava 57 type. Plus that would be the same country that provided his assault rifle.

Or, a mix-master? After all, the barrel is the tracked item over there.

November 11, 2020, 04:10 PM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	can someone identify this pistol? (Tokarev-ish) THIS is the pistol the Vienna assailant carried - is it a Tokarev or some Serbian or Chinese copy? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

November 11, 2020, 06:40 PM	#3
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	It's hard to tell with such a low-res image which is so zoomed out from the pistol, but I presume that it's a Polish Tokarev due to the slide serrations, blued finish, and aftermarket wood grips designed to cover up a removed safety lever. If it were a Chinese Tokarev then the finish would be more of a greyish tone and the slide serrations would be more conventional straight lines, the latter also applies to the Romanian Tokarev. I also very much doubt that it's a Russian Tokarev since they're extremely rare and AFAIK haven't ever been imported since 1968, so there would be no need for such oversized grips. However, as I said, it's very hard to tell for sure because the image isn't very good. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

November 12, 2020, 11:37 AM	#4
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	...but it's a 7.62 x 25, not a 9mm variant? In this pic, the ejection port seems rather long for a 9mm... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

November 12, 2020, 01:30 PM	#5
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Way more Tokarevs were made in 7.62x25 than 9mm. What would make you believe the pistol in question is 9mm? Not much detail but the first picture I can almost see the bottle neck of a 7.62x25 on the round at the top of the magazine. And I really wonder about the un-fired rifle rounds laying around. They would not normally be un-fired if involved in shooting ... __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

November 12, 2020, 01:58 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	An Austrian terr isn't likely to use a Chinese Tokarev either. Regardless of the chambering. Like Jim says, it's a Tok with target grips on it. More likely commercial than homemade. An excellent condition Russian Tok runs $399.95Cdn up here. Probably more of 'em here than ever would be Stateside. Since Clinton, as I recall, made the deal with the Russians to stop the importation of Russian milsurp stuff. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 11, 2020, 04:37 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Looks like a Tokarev with homemade thumb rest grip. As to whether it is a Russian Tokarev or a Chinese Tokarev or a Polish Tokarev, etc., there is no way or knowing without being able to read the markings.

November 17, 2020, 03:07 AM	#9
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	Tokarev- definitely. Polish or Russian: who knows. Supposedly Russia still has a lot of Tokarevs floating around. Keep in mind that Poland added the safety to comply with export requirements to the USA. From my understanding, a Polish Tokarev bought in Poland would look like a Russian Tokarev- no safety. Poland is closer to Austria than Russia, so it may be more accessible. However, Russian weapons could have been floating around in the illegal gun market, or from the middle east, and obtained by ISIL before sending them to Austria. my instinct would be to say 'russian', for some reason: more weapons floating around in middle east also for ISIL to latch on to. However, not enough evidence to prove anything. From the grip, I thought it might be a ZASTAVA 57, but the slide isn't Zastava 57 type. Plus that would be the same country that provided his assault rifle. Or, a mix-master? After all, the barrel is the tracked item over there.

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