458 elk bullets

[1972RedNeck]

Had a bunch of elk show up to devastate my haystacks and grub off my winter wheat once again. Got a bunch of damage tags from the warden.

With the damage tags, I like to use a big rifle that will put them down right now so I can forget about the one I just shot and focus on dropping the next. I have some bolt guns that do well, but their limited capacity can be a hindrance. Last spring I bought a new 1886 Win in 45-90 for the added capacity. Worked up two loads over the summer:

300 grain Hornady interlock hollow point running 2600 fps.

405 grain cast (18 bhn hardness) going 2200 fps.

I was pleased and yet disappointed with both loads. With "proper" placement with the 300 grain interlocks, I have never seen an elk drop faster. No exit wound. Bullet comes apart and destroys the vitals.

Same bullet in the shoulders fragments and doesn't make it to the vitals about half the time.

405 hard cast in the vitals just zips right through. Deadly, but relatively small (for a 458 bullet) wound channel so they take a minute or two to go down.

Through the shoulders, it shatters everything and drops them instantly.

Is there a better middle of the road bullet for elk for 458s that is under $1/piece? (I like to practice)

Something that will expand going through the rib cage but will stay together enough to make it through a shoulder every time?

Suggestions?

[44 AMP]

Try the 350gr RN (Hornady). They are built tough, and dropping to about 2200fps should produce good performance.

avoid the traditional 405gr jacketed unless you keep the speed down to 16-1700fps at max. They aren't built to hold together if you push them faster.

I was pleased and yet disappointed with both loads. With "proper" placement with the 300 grain interlocks, I have never seen an elk drop faster. No exit wound. Bullet comes apart and destroys the vitals.

Same bullet in the shoulders fragments and doesn't make it to the vitals about half the time.

I believe you are pushing it too fast for best bullet performance.

The 300 HP is a fine bullet, again, but not when driven too fast. 1800-2000fps is its top end range. The interlock may extend its velocity range upwards a bit, call Hornady and ask them.

A 400gr at 2200fps is quite a stout load, I've shot that from my .458, and its more recoil than I care for when shooting game that isn't likely to kill me.

[1972RedNeck]

The 300 HP is a fine bullet, again, but not when driven too fast. 1800-2000fps is its top end range. The interlock may extend its velocity range upwards a bit, call Hornady and ask them.

You are 100% correct. Hornady only loads it up to 2100 FPS in their 458 Win load data.

[1972RedNeck]

Try the 350gr RN (Hornady). They are built tough, and dropping to about 2200fps should produce good performance.

Will they expand better than a hardcast? Why? Is the lead way softer and relies on the jacket to hold it together?

Why slow it down? To make it hold together better? Hornady is pushing it 2700 in their Lott data...

[ocharry]

so RedNeck....are you or do you plan on relaoding for this 45-90???

if you are or can or plan too maybe you should try a softer lead bullet...and if you do reload i would like for you to look at a lyman cast bullet that is a 425 flat nose...the meplate is almost as big as the diameter...they will turn over to about 3/4 to 7/8" but you need them to be softer and slowed down like AMP suggested....maybe in the 12-1400fps range...not dead soft but softer than 18bn....i make my own and they are in the 12 range...they run through my 45-70 so they should work in your 90 as well...these bullets are a way better killing bullet than the 405

also if you are going to run them that fast i would suggest also that you use a card wad under the bullet to help protect the base...or if you can find a bullet design like it that is a gas check that would work too

i have used these on deer and they never know what hit them..DRT...elk is a bigger animal but i am sure these bullets are what you are looking for

just some thoughts

PS....need any help...lol

[1972RedNeck]

Yes I reload for it. Only way to get the velocity I am looking for to reach out to 300+ yards. Not too far off from a 458 Win.

Don't really want to slow them down because I want them to shoot as flat as possible for the given platform.

I just want a bullet that will transfer a LOT of energy while mostly staying together.

And yes, I would gladly let anyone else take care of the problem as I don't enjoy it at all. But who knows when they will show up? And when they do, I take after them immediately.

Takes about 2 weeks of harassment every winter to get them to stay away.

[ocharry]

hmmm...well i would think with proper sights 300yrds would be a pretty easy poke for a 45-90

send a big heavy messenger and it will work every time...lol

dang i would like to help out for sure...but i gots a big pile of snow to move today...lol

good luck with the problem...well not sure if elk meat in the freezer is a problem

[paknheat]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

Yes I reload for it. Only way to get the velocity I am looking for to reach out to 300+ yards. Not too far off from a 458 Win.

Don't really want to slow them down because I want them to shoot as flat as possible for the given platform.

I just want a bullet that will transfer a LOT of energy while mostly staying together.

And yes, I would gladly let anyone else take care of the problem as I don't enjoy it at all. But who knows when they will show up? And when they do, I take after them immediately.

Takes about 2 weeks of harassment every winter to get them to stay away.

Have you thought about trying a monolithic type bullet like the ones that come from Barnes or Hammer or Cutting Edge?


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[1972RedNeck]

good luck with the problem...well not sure if elk meat in the freezer is a problem

I don't get to keep them. Get donated to the food bank.

[1972RedNeck]

Have you thought about trying a monolithic type bullet like the ones that come from Barnes or Hammer or Cutting Edge?

Thought about it. But they are expensive, and I have no experience with them.

[Paul B.]

I cast a 510 gr. lead gas check .458" bullet. I ran a bunch for a friend of mine but may still have a few. I ran them when I had a .58 Win. Mag. and ran a few in a Ruger #1 45-70. They're a bit too long to run in a marlin though. Dunno how they would work in a 45-90. I know the originals were twisted too slow even for 400 gr. bullets.
Paul B.

[44 AMP]

Why slow it down? To make it hold together better? Hornady is pushing it 2700 in their Lott data...

I mention the Hornady 350 SP at 2200fps because I have used them at that speed, and I feel confident that they will work well at that speed. If Hornady says they're ok at higher speed, then they probably are, but I don't have personal experience with that.

[natman]

I'd also recommend the 350 Hornady. It's designed for higher velocity than the 300 HP. The lead is indeed softer than hardcast, so it will expand but stay together.

I'm not surprised that the 300 gr HP is coming apart, it's designed for 45-70 original strength loads and it's being pushed about twice that fast. Which can be very effective until it hits a rib on the way in and blows up on the surface.

[taylorce1]

You should try these 250 gr Hornady Monoflex. Drive them as hard and fast as you can and you'll have big wound channels and complete pass through most of the time. As far as expensive bullets go, how much hay and wheat do the elk cost you yearly compared to a few boxes of expensive bullets? It also should be a tax deductible on your schedule F, anything you spend personally to control farm losses.

[GHOL]

I shoot the .458 Remington, 300 grain, 45-70 bullet, in a MMP orange sabot with my Knight rifles. I've taken several deer with this bullet and accuracy is very good.

[1972RedNeck]

You should try these 250 gr Hornady Monoflex. Drive them as hard and fast as you can and you'll have big wound channels and complete pass through most of the time.

They're only listed for 2500 fps muzzle velocity. I can beat that by 300+ fps.

Thinking the 350 gr RN or FP interlock will do what I need now that I've researched them a bit. Going to try some out.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

They're only listed for 2500 fps muzzle velocity. I can beat that by 300+ fps.

Where did you find that info? A monometal bullet usually doesn't have a top end speed, just minimum impact velocity for expansion.

[1972RedNeck]

Where did you find that info? A monometal bullet usually doesn't have a top end speed, just minimum impact velocity for expansion

Hornady reloading manual 9th edition.

[44 AMP]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck
They're only listed for 2500 fps muzzle velocity. I can beat that by 300+ fps.

Out of what gun?? And which bullet, the 250gr copper, or the 350gr jacketed? Its not clear to me...

Can you get 2800fps from the .45-90 you have?? Or are you looking at something else??

[taylorce1]

So you're saying the load data doesn't show a faster load? I only have the digital 11th edition and it doesn't list your cartridge. I think if you're getting 2600, with a 300 gr you could at least do that with the 250 gr mono. However, after running the numbers even if you matched 2600 fps the Hornady mono isn't a winner at all.

[1972RedNeck]

No, it has a section of all their bullets listed with bc, sd, recommended use, and muzzle velocity range. Velocity range for the 458 325gr ftx is 1300 - 2300 and the 250gr monoflex is 1400-2500.

[1972RedNeck]

Out of what gun?? And which bullet, the 250gr copper, or the 350gr jacketed? Its not clear to me...

250 grain. New 1886 Winchester. All the pressure and then some. Not recommended. Do not try at home.

[taylorce1]

Velocity range for the 458 325gr ftx is 1300 - 2300 and the 250gr monoflex is 1400-2500.

The FTX is a different bullet being cup-n-core, it would have an upper working limit. If Hornady is listing an upper limit for their Monoflex, I'd hazzard a guess it's to keep pressures down for old firearms. I wouldn't be afraid to push past a MV of 2500 with the Monoflex, besides it isn't going to impact above 2500 fps outside of 60 yds and it'll be below 1400 beyond 300 yds. So your easily within the published operating limits at the distances you're shooting elk.

The worst thing that'll happen to a monometal bullet is the petals will shear off and you'll basically be left with a solid alloy base that'll keep penetrating. That's if you're impacting above the operating limits of a bullet. I imagine it'll give you the energy transfer and penetration you want out of a bullet.

However I didn't realize the abysmal BC of the 250 gr Monoflex. For example a few bullets with your MV and shot at a elevation of 4000 ft elevation:

250gr Monoflex with 2800 fps MV, MPBR 283 yds, -7.9" low, 1447 fps, and 1162 ft-lbs @300 yds.

300gr Hornady HP with 2600 fps MV, MPBR 273 yds, -9.7" low, 1433 fps, and 1368 ft-lbs @300 yds.

You stated you don't want expensive bullets that average more than $1 each, but the Barnes Original 300 grain semi-spitzer bullet makes some impressive numbers at 300 yds using your MV of 2600 fps.

[105kw]

What is your barrell marked?
I've found 3 new Winchester 1886 45-90 on GB, And all are marked for black powder only.

[1972RedNeck]

What is your barrell marked?

BP Only.

Seems to like compressed 3031.

Not recommended. Do not try at home.