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Old March 20, 2019, 09:29 PM   #26
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The 38 load by the book is very weak. Since there was no other option on the data sheet I went with the only other load listed for a stronger load which was for 357. This load feels more like a factory load. The empty cases slide out easily and show no signs of bulging or over pressure and the primers stay seated. I paired the Blackhawk with a Rossi 92 rifle in .38/.357 so as to use the same ammo for both. The 92 really likes the .38 length shells so I have a lot of ..38 brass. In the future I plan to start buying .357 and reload that case but right now all I have is a lot of .38 brass. I guess I could purchase a different powder and try a new load but I just bought the universal powder so that’s what I’m stuck with for a while. Same thing with the 125 XTP bullets , I would rather had FMJ but that’s all they had so that’s what I went with. I suppose I could go back to the original load data and work my way up slowly but I think that will lead me back to where I am now. I mean if I’m not showing any signs of over pressure what is the problem? The rounds are not in the nuclear range like I said it feels like off the shelf .38 or .38 +p. But I do appreciate the info and will listen to reason. Again thanks.
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Old March 20, 2019, 09:43 PM   #27
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Without knowing your loads, it is impossible to guess at the issue. If they are over book maximums, please post the required warning.
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Old March 20, 2019, 10:07 PM   #28
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6.2 grn universal powder , 125 Hornady XTP bullet
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Old March 21, 2019, 08:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
The 38 load by the book is very weak. Since there was no other option on the data sheet I went with the only other load listed for a stronger load which was for 357. This load feels more like a factory load. The empty cases slide out easily and show no signs of bulging or over pressure and the primers stay seated. I paired the Blackhawk with a Rossi 92 rifle in .38/.357 so as to use the same ammo for both. The 92 really likes the .38 length shells so I have a lot of ..38 brass. In the future I plan to start buying .357 and reload that case but right now all I have is a lot of .38 brass. I guess I could purchase a different powder and try a new load but I just bought the universal powder so that’s what I’m stuck with for a while. Same thing with the 125 XTP bullets , I would rather had FMJ but that’s all they had so that’s what I went with. I suppose I could go back to the original load data and work my way up slowly but I think that will lead me back to where I am now. I mean if I’m not showing any signs of over pressure what is the problem? The rounds are not in the nuclear range like I said it feels like off the shelf .38 or .38 +p. But I do appreciate the info and will listen to reason. Again thanks.
If all you wanted as per your original post was:
Quote:
...it’s just for plinking with the Ruger. Later on I may get serious but right now it’s just plinking out back.
Then why are you dissatisfied with the "very weak" .38 Spl. loads? It sounds like you are not satisfied with "plinking loads" and now want something hotter. If that is the case, you may as well start buying more sophisticated loading equipment.
You need to make up your mind about what you really want.
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Old March 21, 2019, 09:07 AM   #30
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Hogdon lists 5.4 grains as a +P load with a 135 gr. bullet, so yours is over that for a 38. Yes, the gun is a 357 and may be capable of handling it, but there's always the risk of a round being fired in some other gun. Not sure if that answers your question, but then again I'm not positive what the question is.
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Old March 21, 2019, 10:34 AM   #31
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The load listed for this combo is very anemic so I have loaded the .38 cases to the .357 data with same bullit.
I don't understand your reasoning. How did you determine a starting load of Universal under a 125 XTP "anemic"? A starting load as per Hodgdon is 7.1 gr Universal for 1,394 fps in a 10" bbl (your handgun will be slightly lower fps).

I would suggest you take a step back, slow down and just go with book loads until, with experience, you have a better understanding of powder charges, pressures, velocities, and not try extrapolating loads from one cartridge to another...
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Old March 21, 2019, 01:46 PM   #32
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5.8 grains of Universal under a 125 grain Hornady XTP is a maximum 38 Special +P load based on the Hornady 9th Edition. That is loading to a COL of 1.450".
Hodgdon using a 125 grain bullet in a .357 Magnum case calls out a maximum load of Universal Powder at 7.6 grains with a start of 7.1 grains. That is loading to a COL of 1.590".

So your load of 6.2 grains of Universal exceeds the Maximum load of a .38 Special cartridge. The idea here is if you wish to shoot 357 Magnum in a 357 Magnum handgun then load 357 Magnum cases. That's about all I can say on the subject. You started by asking for a "plinking" load. Nobody here is going to condone overloading a 38 Special cartridge. The fact that your load shoots and extracts is well and fine but nobody will condone it. Your gun, your body parts.

New 357 Magnum Brass for 500 pieces runs about $84 while new 38 Special brass comes in around $80 for 500.

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Old March 21, 2019, 05:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
I mean if I’m not showing any signs of over pressure what is the problem?
Unlike rifle cartridges where you can "read" the brass for signs of over pressure, it don't work that way with handguns.

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Old March 22, 2019, 06:21 AM   #34
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If I'm reading this thread correctly, you need to stop what you're doing and get yourself some instruction -- a book, a video, or even a class - on proper, safe, handloading techniques.

You're going about this in a FAR too cavalier and arbitrary manner and you're either going to hurt your gun, hurt yourself, or both.
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Old March 22, 2019, 06:38 AM   #35
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I think what the OP basically wants are 38/44 loads. Unfortunately, SAAMI hasn't published pressure limits for such loads, and I've not seen any pressure tested recipes for that once popular designation. Plus, the guns designed for use with such loads haven't been produced in many decades.
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Old March 22, 2019, 02:35 PM   #36
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Using that much powder in a short case will run up the pressure very high because your case is shorter and your bullet is closer to the powder That is a accident wanting to happen
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Old March 22, 2019, 04:07 PM   #37
Jim Watson
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What he wants is Manly Bullets that don't FEEL weak.
He wants to use .38 brass because his lever action works better with the shorter round.

I don't think his present load is going to blow up his guns, but I don't know for sure, the data isn't there.

Maybe Unclenick will grind it through Quickload for him.
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Old March 22, 2019, 04:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.
And to add my own words: The following information is just for that - information; and nothing more. I do not in any way recommend or endorse loading to such parameters.

Quote:
6.2 grn universal powder , 125 Hornady XTP bullet
I mocked this up in QuickLoad. I got 20Kpsi. Exceeding 38 Special +P, but within 357 Magnum.

I hope our OP understands that when we're out at the range shooting our firearms, we can not "feel" pressure. Pressure and felt recoil are two completely different things; and are, at best, only indirectly related.
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Old March 22, 2019, 08:14 PM   #39
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If you plan on playing around with the charge you may want to get a chronograph.
it is the only true way to see what your loads are doing. Either way, get a scale and forget the dippers. Different powers require different weights.
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Old March 22, 2019, 11:50 PM   #40
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Ok found the problem. When I ask about this on another sight and explained the load by the book felt anemic or I’m sorry “weak” to the point at first I checked to make sure I didn’t have a squib I got a reply that said if the case is correct and the powder is correct and the bullet is correct the only other possibility would be incorrect crimp. So I checked and sure enough that was the problem the crimp was so loose that with thumb pressure I could push the bullet down into the case. That’s logical, very light crimp causes lower pressure. once this was corrected everything is good to go now. . But hey guys thanks anyway for the replies.

Last edited by test drive; March 23, 2019 at 12:31 AM.
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Old March 23, 2019, 09:23 PM   #41
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You have a sizing issue. Not a crimp issue. If a case is not resized enough you can push a bullet into the case, and pull it back out. If the case is sized you can not push a bullet into the case more than just a very small bit of the base, at most. That is why cases get flared so a bullet can sit in straight enough for the seating die to push it down into the case. Without shearing off the side of the bullet.
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Old March 24, 2019, 06:58 AM   #42
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m&p45acp10+1 has it right, tension from properly resized brass will not allow a bullet to move around in the case. A crimp in a revolver cartridge simply prevents the bullets in the cartridges in the cylinder from starting to come out of the case due to recoil.

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Old March 24, 2019, 10:56 AM   #43
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The Lee Loader is built to neck size only. Obviously it wasn't even doing that well enough here.
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Old March 27, 2019, 10:30 PM   #44
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Well.....when I said push down into case I simply ment pushed down from the crimp. Had a friend chrono a few rounds average was a bit over 840 FPS. Rounds slide in and out of cylinder just like off the shelf stuff all I can say is the rounds with the very loose crimp had little to no recoil, that is what originally concerned me rounds with a good crimp have normal felt recoil, the only thing changed was the crimp. so..... I guess I’ll call Lee and inform them their kits are no good. Or maybe some people don’t know quite as much as they.....well you know. I know some of you really where trying to help with the question and I thank you while others seem to have a need to show their “ questionable “ superior intellect about the dynamics of cartridge reloading.
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Old March 28, 2019, 09:14 AM   #45
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Were you actually looking for help, or just an excuse to insult people?
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Old March 28, 2019, 12:11 PM   #46
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Hate to bust your bubble test_drive, but cartridges with a loose crimp do not have "little to no recoil". I won't wager a guess as to what is happening for fear of showing my ' “ questionable “ superior intellect about the dynamics of cartridge reloading'.

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