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Old March 17, 2019, 09:15 AM   #1
precision_shooter
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Pistol Caliber Carbines (PCC)

Wanted to take a minute to get some feedback/opinions/thoughts on the title subject.

I've done a bit of research on this myself and already own a CZ Scorpion Evo 3 in 9mm and it's a great little PCC, but quite expensive... I also had to spend some money on a trigger spring kit, better paddle mag release, and remove the ambi safety as it dug into my index finger/knuckle on the shooting hand. All were inexpensive to fix/replace.
I got on a kick where I'd like to have a weapon capable of being shoulder fired to compliment any pistol I might be carrying. Now, nobody currently makes a .357 mag carbine so i'm SOL on that one.

What I am interested in, and it seems MFG's are finally getting onboard with this as well, is a PCC chambered in 10mm. There seems to be 2 trains of thought on a 10mm PCC.
1st is that 10mm is too stout to be in a blowback design and needs to be in a gas system like that of an AR to keep the gun from tearing itself apart.
2nd is that it doesn't matter the design. Blowback is fine and can handle the punishment of 10mm so long as it's built to do so and the only advantage to gas is it reduces recoil. I don't see recoil being too bad in a shoulder-fired platform anyway.

What are your thoughts?
What platforms do you think are the best for the money?
Which ones would you advise to stay away from and why?


I've already ruled out the mechtech conversion as you have to render your pistol inoperative to make the mechtech operative and while using the mechtech PCC you have to keep up with your pistol slide, barrel, and recoil spring.

I also don't like the "chassis" designs that your entire pistol fits into basically just turning your pistol into a shoulder fired weapon. This again means you cannot use your pistol along with the PCC without rendering one inoperable while the other is in use.

I like the CMMG and Stag offerings but didn't want to spend that much (MSRP is around $1500) and they aren't available yet.

I'm leaning towards the Extar EP10 pistol which should be out soon and retail should be around $550 including the SB Tactical pistol brace.
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Last edited by precision_shooter; March 17, 2019 at 10:24 AM.
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Old March 17, 2019, 09:35 AM   #2
jetinteriorguy
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Just Right Carbines is also making them, and they can use Glock mags. They use AR style FCG's. I've had mine in 9mm for about 5 years or so and its been an excellent shooter. Built like a tank, it's a very good quality item. They are modular and can be configured for right or left side on safety and charging handle. I'm not sure if the mag release is also ambidextrous.
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Old March 17, 2019, 10:16 AM   #3
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I don't know if they make one in 10mm, but dollar-for-dollar, youo can't do better than a Hi-Point PCC. Fully guaranteed, my 995 has been super reliable and super accurate.
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Old March 17, 2019, 10:16 AM   #4
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Before I bought a Stag or CMMG, I'd talk to these folks. Their prices seem better to me, and they do both rifle (carbine) and pistol lengths, plus they will build with your parts if you have something specific in mind.

http://www.rmwxtreme.com/
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Old March 17, 2019, 10:20 AM   #5
precision_shooter
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I’ve looked at the just right carbines and they seem ok but kinda heavy.
Hi-point does indeed make a PCC and I’ve handled them, but they just aren’t for me. The ergonomics and feel leave a lot to be desired for me.
TNW firearms Aero survival pistol also had my interest.
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Old March 17, 2019, 10:50 PM   #6
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Well, they do have PCC's in .357 for as long as the .357 has been around and much longer in other rimmed calibers: the lever carbines

I started with an AR 9mm carbine that took Sten magazines. I like it, but it's a heavy beast as is my UZI carbine. The Kel-Tech SUB 2000 is much better for weight and stowed size, but where I found the sweet spot is the newer "pistols" that use arm braces.

Outside of hand-loading, most pistol calibers don't gain much beyond 8-10" of barrel length; those just add more weight and useless length. With arm-braced "pistols" such as the CZ, B&T, Sig, CMMG, and other AR-variants, you get a much more compact platform that is far handier and still offers decent ballistics from a pistol cartridge.

You're looking for 10mm and some are out there and more in the pipeline. I've heard great things from the Extar, but no experience. I think KRISS is another offering (but expensive). My vote would be waiting on CMMG's 10mm pistol as they have an excellent track record and warranty. .45 ACP is another option if you want a big slug, but it won't have the 10mm velocity without hand-loading or specialty rounds. Another nice aspect with these short barrel "pistols", is that they are natural hosts for a suppressor and great usable transition if you want to submit for a SBR format...

Either way, I think these pseudo-SBR, arm-braced pistols are quite functional HD weapons, superior to most conventional PCCs, and fit perfectly between a rifle-caliber carbine and CCW/handgun. Shorter and handier indoors, less concussive blasts than short barrel rifle-calibers, better suppression, and a more effective platform for fast, accurate, repeatable shots beyond that of conventional pistols.

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Old March 17, 2019, 11:21 PM   #7
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I want a 10mm carbine as well, but I'm doing the smart thing and it's called waiting because the industry seems hesitant to get into making pistols for 10mm, let alone carbines.

I have to believe the boardrooms are currently 70/30 with 70% thinking the 10mm is a passing fad and the 30% realizing 10mm is here to stay. It's gonna take a few more years and another panic until the big wigs understand 10mm has quickly gotten into the top 5 rimless pistol calibers.

Springfield and Glock already have polymer 10mm's out, Ruger has been supporting the 10mm more than any other company besides Glock, but they've yet to come out with a polymer 10mm, and S&W is behind the times... again.

It gets even more murky when the PCC comes up. Yeah, Hi Point and Kriss are doing 10mm's, but that's from two extremes of the spectrum in regards to price. Ruger may be able to do it in their PC carbine, but a lot of people are saying it's not possible, and there are a few other small companies out there making AR versions.

I would go with either the Hi Point or an AR 10mm. The AR can do 10mm, but it's something I would avoid building at home and would wait for more factory options. If you can't wait, go with the Hi Point, I may do that myself in the near future if I don't see or hear any rumblings about more 10mm carbines coming.

I really don't want to go Hi Point yet as I plan on getting a Glock and the Hi Points are stuck with low capacity proprietary magazines, but they are cheap.
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Old March 18, 2019, 08:38 AM   #8
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My preference would be a platform that uses Glock magazines as they're far more prevalent. Stag Arms is coming out with one and Extar is the other I would focus on in the near future. No issues with the Hi-Point, but their magazines kind of suck (they work, just not high-capacity or common). If they would just make them compatible with Glock magazines they would be really hot-ticket items.

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Old March 18, 2019, 08:56 AM   #9
precision_shooter
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There are a number of good companies who either already make or revealed a 10mm carbine/pistol for 2019 at SHOT. Some but not all of the ones I know of and have considered are listed below.
And yes I want a pistol with the brace that uses Glock mags as the other 10mm I have are a Glock 20 and a Glock 40.

Kriss
CMMG
Stag
Extar
TNW
Hi-point
Thureon Defense
Just Right Carbines
And a host of companies make pistol caliber uppers and mag blocks for standard AR’s but I’m not interested in this route.
Anything over $800-$1000 is out of the question as well which rules out the CMMG which I really liked or the STAG which I also really liked. Dollar for dollar I think the TNW Aero Survival Pistol or Extar EP10 are two of the best buys and candidates for me.

What would really be nice is a CZ scorpion in 10mm. No it doesn’t use Glock mags, but theirs are cheap and reliable and the scorpion platform is great.
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