Ripped-off on a S&W 629-1

[Flight Medic]

Purchased a S&W Model 629 .44 Magnum off Gunbroker that was listed in "excellent condition with minimal signs of use" . What my FFL received was a DAMAGED model 629 (see photos). The side plate is bent (right over where the trigger pin should be), pry marks on the edge of the plate and scratches around the screw holes (apparently from too large a screwdriver). I paid over $1200 for this revolver and it looks like DOG POO!! The best part is, the seller is claiming there is "nothing wrong with the revolver" and refusing to "discuss a refund" without a "letter from S&W documenting the damage". The photos on his auction do not highlight this flaw, it simply looks like a shadow from lighting, and the description has no mention of ANYTHING wrong. This gun was reassembled by someone who did NOT know what they were doing...so God knows what may be wrong internally.

I refused to accept the weapon and it remains at my FFL dealer, but I have no idea how to proceed with trying to get my money back. I called S&W, and they told me that, because this weapon is out of warranty, it will take the Performance Center approximately 10 to 12 weeks to get an estimate. By that time I wont even be able to leave negative feedback for the seller anymore!! Not sure how to handle this. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

















This is THEIR photo, which does not show any flaw. Ah, the magic of lighting...or Photoshop??









BTW anyone looking for an "excellent condition [revolver] with minimal signs of use" should AVOID Gunbroker seller "gomoose02" and B&B Guns in Grand Fork, ND...because they are scam-artists.

I may not get my money back, but I can at least save folks here from getting taken on a $1200 ride to nowhere.

~FM

[FITASC]

Have you contacted GunBroker?

What did they have to say?

How did you pay? If by a credit card, you have recourse.

[t4terrific]

That’s the way they were designed. It lets the water out. Stainless revolvers were designed for Frog Men to carry.

Smith & Wesson will tell you the same thing.

I have bought six guns on Gunbroker. Three of them weren’t as good as they were made out to be.

You’re probably SOL. Everybody boasts about their online deals, but they neglect to mention the downside. They don’t mention the false advertisement on used guns, the dealers that sell their worst examples of new guns with bad triggers and finishes at discount prices in their online stores or Gunbroker, or any of the stuff that people wouldn’t buy in person, but pay for online.

$1200 is way too steep for a -1, BTW. -1 is the worst of the 629’s.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by t4terrific

$1200 is way too steep for a -1, BTW. -1 is the worst of the 629’s.

IMHO......way to steep for any used 629. While I've got a P.C. 629 that I wouldn't sell for $1200, I certainly wouldn't pay that much for it.

Looks like to me someone who didn't know better wanted to take the sideplate off to clean the internals. Insted of tapping the opposite side with a rubber mallet, they try to pry it off. Probably just cosmetic and a quick and easy fix to replace the sideplate and a coupla screws. About $65 from Numrich. I agree tho, that you should not have to accept the gun and that it was falsely advertised.

[arquebus357]

Not to mention FFL slack-butts. Online gun sales are designed for the benefit of FFL's. The paying customer can go pound sand. I'm currently in the middle of a FFL P__ing contest. Meanwhile, my new revolver is being held hostage. Having a FFL license does not mean someone is trustworthy. Maybe just the opposite.

Never again !!!

That poor S&W looks like something I worked on.

[agtman]

Purchased a S&W Model 629 .44 Magnum off Gunbroker that was listed in "excellent condition with minimal signs of use" . What my FFL received was a DAMAGED model 629 (see photos). The side plate is bent (right over where the trigger pin should be), pry marks on the edge of the plate and scratches around the screw holes (apparently from too large a screwdriver). I paid over $1200 for this revolver and it looks like DOG POO!! The best part is, the seller is claiming there is "nothing wrong with the revolver" and refusing to "discuss a refund" without a "letter from S&W documenting the damage". The photos on his auction do not highlight this flaw, it simply looks like a shadow from lighting, and the description has no mention of ANYTHING wrong. This gun was reassembled by someone who did NOT know what they were doing...so God knows what may be wrong internally.
I refused to accept the weapon and it remains at my FFL dealer, but I have no idea how to proceed with trying to get my money back. I called S&W, and they told me that, because this weapon is out of warranty, it will take the Performance Center approximately 10 to 12 weeks to get an estimate. By that time I wont even be able to leave negative feedback for the seller anymore!! Not sure how to handle this. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Flight Medic:

Dude, even without the rather verbose post, it's apparent from the pictures you got ripped.

Chalk it up to experience and move on. Only buy a 'pre-owned' firearm you can personally handle and inspect beforehand.

Simple lessons are often learned the hard way, and it almost always involves a sharp pain in one's keister.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Have you contacted GunBroker?

What did they have to say?

If by a credit card, you have recourse.

Good points.

Depending on what GB says, I'd consider disputing the charge with your credit card company, telling the item was falsely advertised and/or not in the condition it was promised. The original pics you have, and the fact that you haven't yet taken personal possession of it yet (so the damage couldn't have been done by you), would seem to help your case.

I've only disputed one charge in my life, but it was a biggie. I stated my case clearly in writing, the vendor was allowed to respond, and I allowed to respond to their response. In the end (only a few days IIRC), they sided with me. Case closed. The vendor had to take their item back and pay shipping or risk a bad relationship with the credit card company. Wisely, they did the former

[Buckeye!]

Im getting to the point of keeping what I have ... Only buy what I can handle ....
Between questionable online dealers and QC of all gun makers ...

[FITASC]

I have bought a S&W M&P 2.0 online (new); great deal and works great; it is now my nightstand gun in place of my G19. If you deal with reputable sellers, buying new or used can easily go without a hitch. Look for excellent ratings, talk to the seller on the phone, pay with a credit card and all should be just fine.

[Bill DeShivs]

I see nothing wrong, other than the sideplate is not seated flush. No pry marks.

[UncleEd]

Like poster Bill DeShivs, I don't see
any pry marks, i.e. the thin "lip" of the
plate distorted.

Try loosening screws and resetting plate.
Or gently tapping plate to see if it seats
and screws need tightening.

It's possible that something like the hammer
block, trigger return block or hammer is not
quite seated properly.

The picture provided by the broker shows
the plate isn't seated flush/properly.

[lordvader]

I can't believe you paid 1200 dollars. I only paid 519.00 plus tax for my stainless 629 classic with a 5 inch full underlug barrel. Mine was also used, but in very good condition. I inspected the weapon before purchase. Got it at a pawn shop, and couldn't believe how low they had it priced, so I jumped on that deal. Even the gun sales rep didn't know why they had it priced so low. But sold it to me for what the price tag had on it. Unless Gunbroker intervenes, you may have to just live with that purchase.

[44caliberkid]

I hate to make it look like we're piling on, but $1200 is way too much for a 629. Every gun show I go to is flush with 29's and 629's, that you can handle and inspect, and negotiate a good price for.
I have sold guns on GunBroker but only bought one, a specific antique arm that I was having trouble locating.

[Carmady]

If you didn't use a credit card you're likely screwed.

Don't mess with it until you've heard from GB.

I would remove the sideplate and try to tap it flat(er), or take it to gunsmith and see if he can do it.

I looks like an internal part was out of position and someone tightened the sideplate down over it causing the hump.

It looks a little high at the crane screw as well.

The angle of the seller's pics was no accident. They hide the shadow because the shadow knows.

[JERRYS.]

$750 for my 629-1 with a half underlug 6" bbl. a year ago. I've bought about a dozen guns on GB without a problem. I haven't bought one advertised as perfect but have received some darn near that.

[ligonierbill]

I can't address the OP's issue, but I can state that I have purchased dozens of guns on GB. I have rarely been disappointed. More often, the gun I received was better than indicated on the photos. When in doubt, I ask questions. Poor answer, no bid. But usually I get a forthright answer.

Regarding FFL holders, there is a pretty broad spectrum. Reaching an understanding in advance is key. Some don't really want to be bothered with transfers, others thrive on it. Easy to find out.

[agtman]

I hate to make it look like we're piling on, but $1200 is way too much for a 629. Every gun show I go to is flush with 29's and 629's, that you can handle and inspect, and negotiate a good price for.

I agree with this, because I see them in my area too, but you need to go gentle with the OP here.

Perhaps the board's resident Perry Masons can suggest whatever legal recourse the OP may have.

[FITASC]

Perhaps the board's resident Perry Masons can suggest whatever legal recourse the OP may have. confused

Which is why I said this:

Have you contacted GunBroker?

What did they have to say?

How did you pay? If by a credit card, you have recourse.

[Bill DeShivs]

Here's a better one- have you tried tightening the side plate screws??

[223 shooter]

Very sorry to hear of your experience with the 629-1.

I've had to send back about 3 back on gunbroker but picked up some real gems as well. Your seller gomoose02 states in the inspection/return policy:

AS IS - No refund or exchange

I NEVER buy from a seller with this policy. With the seller stating this in the item description not sure if gunbroker can do anything but you might still contact them.

[wild cat mccane]

I assure you, you are not going to get help from Gunbroker. I ASSURE YOU. I've been there. You will quickly learn that in all the mumbo jumbo, gunbroker just pretends it is a clearing house of items, like craiglist. It in no way is an Ebay that will stand with you against a false description. No way, no how.

Gunbroker is the WORST when it comes to a problem.

However, you credit card WILL take care of you. Everything in the world is marked up to cover credit card fees. Part of those fees cover benefits provided by credit cards. Dispute resolution is one of those benefits you pay for every time you shop at the grocery store.

If you have even a mid credit card, they will give you back the disputed funds the second you file a dispute.

[FrankenMauser]

That's messed up.

I would consider my options carefully. But I'm not sure how I would proceed.
If the seller is refusing to take it back, especially without you having taken possession, that's a major red flag and implies guilt. ...But means your only recourse is through 3rd parties.

Tough call. Tough call.

If the seller would take it back, I'd probably eat the shipping cost and report the scammer to GB.
It sucks. But it's better than most of the alternatives.

You’re probably SOL. Everybody boasts about their online deals, but they neglect to mention the downside. They don’t mention the false advertisement on used guns, the dealers that sell their worst examples of new guns with bad triggers and finishes at discount prices in their online stores or Gunbroker, or any of the stuff that people wouldn’t buy in person, but pay for online.

That's not true.
There are plenty of members here that are transparent about their online dealings - the good, and the "bad" and/or "buyer's remorse" online deals. It's just that most people don't go looking for the bad, and you can't really tell beforehand whether or not you're about to get screwed.

I've shared all of mine.
My favorite was a shotgun that was held together by magnets. The seller, however, refused to accept that as a realistic possibility, told me to get bent, and refused to talk to me any more. With more poking, prodding, and minor threats of going to 3rd parities direct to his secretary/assistant, he eventually looked at photos and a video that I sent, and was even more surprised than I. We both ended up laughing about the skill with which he was duped by the previous owner, while issuing me a partial refund. (I still wanted to keep it ... just not for the price that I had paid.)

Now that I'm think about it... The top three worst online deals for me were all from well-known companies:
1. Badger Airbrush
2. Optics Planet
3. Western Gun Parts (via GB auction)

.

[Sgt127]

I would take off the sideplate and lay it on a jewelers block, granite countertop, sheet of glass, something dead flat. See if it’s truly sprung.

See if the hammer block is damaged (or, even still in there). And check for any of the pins being too long. (Doubtful). Make sure there’s no damage to the inside of the sideplate and bosses.

If the sideplate is indeed sprung, lay it face down on a jewelers block or other dead flat steel surface and knock it true with a lead Babbitt.

[4V50 Gary]

I'd put in in a vise and squeeze it.

[DaleA]

I'd put in in a vise and squeeze it.

You would not!!!

(Sounds like something I would do though...)