cabela's traditional hawken percussion rifle

ginoe · January 3, 2009, 06:18 PM

cabela's traditional hawken percussion rifle - right hand
Item:UJ-210042
$369.99

online order for in-store pickup at the nearest cableas, which is a 266mi/5hr round-trip drive.

picked up the rifle today only to be disappointed, the escutcheon wedge was missing from the package. cabelas could not help me.

i was lucky to know dixon's muzzleloading shop was only 15mi/20min away, they had the missing part i needed.

otherwise it is a beautiful rifle, wood stock, wooden rod & the cleaning jag was inside the patch box. i can't wait to take it to the range to sight it in.

two questions:

1: what size #11 nipple? - i bought a .75mm knight red hot stainless nipple but am afraid to wrench it down.

2: rear tang peep site - who makes one for this rifle?

SteveDS · January 3, 2009, 07:42 PM

You have the correct nipple - 6x75 fits most if not all the Italian made muzzleloaders. Your gun should be made by Investarms, same manufacture that makes Lyman muzzleloaders.

Tang mount peep sight – Lyman 57, T/C Hunting Peep, and I believe Williams makes one (RU22?). Another option is a barrel mounted Williams (WDOS).

I currently use the T/C on both a T/C White Mountain and Renegade – pretty good for hunting (you will want to open up the aperture diameter to suit your eyes and lighting conditions), but I had to bed the barrels and tangs to make them come back to the same zero after disassembly.

I use the Williams WDOS on a stainless Cabela’s Sporterized Hawken Hunter Carbine – sight stays with the barrel and there are a variety of interchangeable apertures.

I have a couple of Lyman peep sights and the micrometer adjusts along with their quick release slide are convenient, but to me the thing is just too large for muzzleloader hunting.

armedandsafe · January 3, 2009, 07:54 PM

My only complaint I EVER had was that my granddaughter won't give it back.

You manual should tell you which nipple size to use. Otherwise, use the original one to compare diameter, thread and length.

Drop an email to Cabela's customer service. They respond quickly, in my experience.

Pops

mykeal · January 3, 2009, 08:32 PM

Yeah, I don't understand, "Cabela's could not help me". Can't believe they sold you a rifle with missing parts and then said, "Sorry, Charlie, have a nice day." Customer Service needs to know time, date, location and names of the people involved.

ginoe · January 3, 2009, 11:24 PM

Firearms, ammunition, powders, and primers cannot be returned due to safety regulations. All sales are final.

If a firearm is defective and returned within 30 days of purchase, we will repair or exchange it. After 30 days, we will gladly assist you in returning the item to the manufacturer for repair and/or warranty determination.

customer service quoted the above store policy to me. i told them it was not defective, just missing an integral part. they then said they could process the warranty repair if i wished. i declined, saying all i needed was the missing wedge.

this is when i said to myself - "cabela's cannot not help me"

i suppose i could have taken the warranty repair but that won't help me shoot tomorrow morning.

i left the store, walked back out to my truck then walked back into the store bypassing customer service. went to the blackpowder section & explained the situation. a nice fellow checked around the dept & the bargain cave but no wedge to be found. i thanked him for his efforts & drove out to dixon's where i found what i needed.

i removed the original nipple & it's not easy to get back on. you really have to be careful to not cross-thread it. i'm afraid to try the replacement nipple i bought.

thanks for the peep & nipple advice, i've decided i'll leave the originals on. i'd hate to cross-thread the spare & ruin the rifle.

hope it shoots as good as it looks...

Hawg · January 3, 2009, 11:34 PM

I've got one of those I bought in 85. I think I paid 149.00 for it. Pretty good guns but the sights are crap.

arcticap · January 3, 2009, 11:58 PM

I saw an old Investarms rifle at a gunshow and it didn't seem to be as well built as the newer ones.
Investarms has effectively put TC out of the sidelock business.

kirpi97 · January 4, 2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Drop an email to Cabela's customer service. They respond quickly, in my experience.

ginoe, let me second the advise from armedandsafe. Every experience I have had with Cabela's doesn't reflect the attitude you encountered at the store. I have had missing parts or damaged equipment, I have sent them an email and received fair treatment. They have gone above and beyond on some occasions.

It may be a mute point as you have already purchased a replacement wedge. But letting them know how you were treated will help future buyers. And who knows, they may send you a spare wedge.

Can't have too many wedggies now can we???

I haven't the money for a Hawken, so I can only drool over yours and sit back shoot my cheap Kentucky.

mykeal · January 4, 2009, 12:59 PM

The treatment you received from the store's Customer Service rep is not Cabela's policy and must not be excused. Selling someone a gun with missing parts and then misapplying the warranty repair policy is completely unacceptable. I'll suggest you call the corporate Customer Service number and report the incident, including date, time and the names (if you have any) of the personnel involved. Customer Relations is 800-237-4444.

simonkenton · January 4, 2009, 01:05 PM

That is a beautiful rifle! Glad you got the wedge straightened out.

But damn, it was a genuine Hawken, you couldn't go no better.

-Jeremiah Johnson

googabeest · January 4, 2009, 03:16 PM

I'm not sure this service rep was correct in assuming the firearms policy applies to BP guns. I had a Uberti 1873 Cattleman that I returned to the store no problem after deciding I'd rather have an 1858. I've never had a problem returning anything to them.

shortwave · January 4, 2009, 05:36 PM

Beautiful rifle ginoe. Love those doubleset triggers. FYI, you probably are aware of this but just incase, apply a very small amount of anti-seize to nipple threads. Makes for easier removal later. Have Fun!

armedandsafe · January 4, 2009, 06:55 PM

Re: fitting the nipples. I took a Dremel ball stone, fitted it in a wooden handle and then gently opened the mouth of the well a few thou. Helps a LOT. A dab of blue and you can't tell any metal was displaced.

Pops

ginoe · January 4, 2009, 10:55 PM

i was broken-hearted about the missing wedge on the new rifle & when the customer service desk had only offered the warranty repair option. a big thumbs up to the blackpowder dept worker who went around trying to find a replacement wedge. i probably would have pushed the issue further if the dixon's shop didn't have a wedge - but since they did, it's all good.

brought the new smokepole to show off to a friend this morning, we went to the wooster range in ct. pretty neat outdoor range, there was a guy shooting a full-auto belt-fed machine gun

i wore a (faux) coon skin hat w/tail & a leather cowboy suede jacket w/ fringes. i looked the part when i pulled the smokepole out of it's fringed leather gun sock. everyone left the machine gun to watch me prepare to fire.

measured 60gr of blackhorn 209 powder
lubed .010 patch w/ .50 cal lead ball
pushed it down the muzzle & seated it on the powder
#11 cci percussion cap firmly seated on the nipple
cocked the hammer, set the trigger, aim, click...dud
muzzle downrange...one-mississippi, two-mississippi, three-mississippi...
cocked the hammer, set the trigger, aim, pop - only the cap fires!
muzzle downrange...one-mississippi, two-mississippi, three-mississippi...dud
waited about 30sec then wrenched the nipple off to clean it
added a touch of powder in the thread hole & wrenched the nipple back on
new cap seated on the nipple, fire - dud
used a worm to get the ball/patch, shook the powder out
placed the smokepole back into the fringed leather gun sock
by then, everyone had already left me to watch the machine gun

good thing i brought a m&p15 with me too, must have shot off about 200rds

i'll try the nipple tweaking tips ya'll suggest, i'll even wrench down the knight redhot nipple since it should fit - better luck next time.

whosyrdaddy · January 4, 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

measured 60gr of blackhorn 209 powder

Quote:

cocked the hammer, set the trigger, aim, pop - only the cap fires!

Want to guess why it's called Blackhorn 209?

Hawg · January 4, 2009, 11:47 PM

It takes a 209 primer to set it off.

get some Pyrodex if you gotta use a sub. Sounds like the cap wasn't fully seated on the nipple the first go round.

ginoe · January 5, 2009, 12:13 AM

lol, yep dopey me - it even says it on the container (now that i've re-read it). use shotgun 209 primers, not muzzleloader 209 primers. #11 won't set that stuff off. the pyrodex rs probably won't ignite either (had blackhorn at the range, forgot the pyrodex at home).

since i already have 3 extra #11 nipples (doh), i'll try the musket nipple/caps to see how they work. maybe i'll try the triple 7 fffg powder too.

fun stuff, they scariest part was deciding how long to wait to worm out the ball.

L'derry · January 5, 2009, 12:30 AM

Even when using Pyrodex or FFg, you want to fire off a couple of those #11 caps to clear the nipple of any obstruction, grease or cleaning material before you load the powder.

Good luck with a nice gun.

madcratebuilder · January 5, 2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

rear tang peep site - who makes one for this rifle?

T/C makes a nice tang sight , should fit your near Hawken.

Hawg · January 5, 2009, 01:10 AM

Pyrodex RS will be fine with #11 caps. I use it all the time. I usually drop a little powder down the muzzle and set it off before I load a ball just to make sure there's no lube left behind.

ginoe · January 5, 2009, 08:45 AM

good tip - i'll try that next!

i did fire off a couple of caps in the unloaded rifle just as i do using my in-line, but i'll drop a little bit down the muzzle next outing.

it was slathered with oil when i 1st opened the box. after a few swabs, the patches were coming out clean/dry though i probably didn't get all the oil out.

armedandsafe · January 5, 2009, 03:23 PM

A little smear of oil in your barrel won't bother you if you are going to load and shoot. If you are going to load and wait more than a couple of minutes before firing, a little sprinkle of posder in the bore when you pre-fire is good.

You might be able to use that 209 powder if you install a musket nipple. Those musket caps are close to the 209 in power. Remember, though, the fire still has to make that left-hand turn to get to the powder. Might work. Might not work.

Pops

sundance44s · January 5, 2009, 03:58 PM

Another tip for better service out of a side lock rifle ...always put the hammer on half cock while ramming the patched ball ..if you don`t it will air lock in the breech and powder won`t make it around the bend where the nipple sets ...haveing the hammer at half cock gets the face of the hammer off the top of the nipple and will allow the air to be pushed out of the nipple flash hole when seating the ball so some of the powder ends up closer to the flash ...

arcticap · January 5, 2009, 04:04 PM

The Blackhorn 209 powder is said to be a progressive burning powder and supposedly it's smokeless.
It requires a tight seal to build up pressure.
I'm not sure that it's even worth trying all by itself in a sidelock, but I have been wondering if it would ignite as a duplex load with an easier burning powder being dropped in the barrel first to set it off.
Used alone it will weakly hangfire if the primer isn't hot enough.
If 50% Blackhorn 209 was loaded after the Pyrodex, at least the ball wouldn't get stuck and there would be a report on a trial duplex load.
A duplex load should also burn noticiably cleaner than if using Pyrodex alone.

robhof · January 5, 2009, 08:38 PM

Don't know about the 209 powder, but I have used both Pyrodex and 777 in my flinter, by dumping 2 flashpan loads of ffff B/p ahead of the charge. It's easier here to find subs than real B/p, so I dole out my pan powder sparingly.

January 3, 2009, 07:54 PM	#3
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	My only complaint I EVER had was that my granddaughter won't give it back. You manual should tell you which nipple size to use. Otherwise, use the original one to compare diameter, thread and length. Drop an email to Cabela's customer service. They respond quickly, in my experience. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

January 3, 2009, 11:24 PM	#5
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	Firearms, ammunition, powders, and primers cannot be returned due to safety regulations. All sales are final. If a firearm is defective and returned within 30 days of purchase, we will repair or exchange it. After 30 days, we will gladly assist you in returning the item to the manufacturer for repair and/or warranty determination. customer service quoted the above store policy to me. i told them it was not defective, just missing an integral part. they then said they could process the warranty repair if i wished. i declined, saying all i needed was the missing wedge. this is when i said to myself - "cabela's cannot not help me" i suppose i could have taken the warranty repair but that won't help me shoot tomorrow morning. i left the store, walked back out to my truck then walked back into the store bypassing customer service. went to the blackpowder section & explained the situation. a nice fellow checked around the dept & the bargain cave but no wedge to be found. i thanked him for his efforts & drove out to dixon's where i found what i needed. i removed the original nipple & it's not easy to get back on. you really have to be careful to not cross-thread it. i'm afraid to try the replacement nipple i bought. thanks for the peep & nipple advice, i've decided i'll leave the originals on. i'd hate to cross-thread the spare & ruin the rifle. hope it shoots as good as it looks... __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

January 4, 2009, 06:55 PM	#13
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	Re: fitting the nipples. I took a Dremel ball stone, fitted it in a wooden handle and then gently opened the mouth of the well a few thou. Helps a LOT. A dab of blue and you can't tell any metal was displaced. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

January 4, 2009, 10:55 PM	#14
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	i was broken-hearted about the missing wedge on the new rifle & when the customer service desk had only offered the warranty repair option. a big thumbs up to the blackpowder dept worker who went around trying to find a replacement wedge. i probably would have pushed the issue further if the dixon's shop didn't have a wedge - but since they did, it's all good. brought the new smokepole to show off to a friend this morning, we went to the wooster range in ct. pretty neat outdoor range, there was a guy shooting a full-auto belt-fed machine gun i wore a (faux) coon skin hat w/tail & a leather cowboy suede jacket w/ fringes. i looked the part when i pulled the smokepole out of it's fringed leather gun sock. everyone left the machine gun to watch me prepare to fire. measured 60gr of blackhorn 209 powder lubed .010 patch w/ .50 cal lead ball pushed it down the muzzle & seated it on the powder #11 cci percussion cap firmly seated on the nipple cocked the hammer, set the trigger, aim, click...dud muzzle downrange...one-mississippi, two-mississippi, three-mississippi... cocked the hammer, set the trigger, aim, pop - only the cap fires! muzzle downrange...one-mississippi, two-mississippi, three-mississippi...dud waited about 30sec then wrenched the nipple off to clean it added a touch of powder in the thread hole & wrenched the nipple back on new cap seated on the nipple, fire - dud used a worm to get the ball/patch, shook the powder out placed the smokepole back into the fringed leather gun sock by then, everyone had already left me to watch the machine gun good thing i brought a m&p15 with me too, must have shot off about 200rds i'll try the nipple tweaking tips ya'll suggest, i'll even wrench down the knight redhot nipple since it should fit - better luck next time. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

January 5, 2009, 12:13 AM	#17
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	lol, yep dopey me - it even says it on the container (now that i've re-read it). use shotgun 209 primers, not muzzleloader 209 primers. #11 won't set that stuff off. the pyrodex rs probably won't ignite either (had blackhorn at the range, forgot the pyrodex at home). since i already have 3 extra #11 nipples (doh), i'll try the musket nipple/caps to see how they work. maybe i'll try the triple 7 fffg powder too. fun stuff, they scariest part was deciding how long to wait to worm out the ball. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

January 3, 2009, 06:18 PM	#1
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	cabela's traditional hawken percussion rifle cabela's traditional hawken percussion rifle - right hand Item:UJ-210042 $369.99 online order for in-store pickup at the nearest cableas, which is a 266mi/5hr round-trip drive. picked up the rifle today only to be disappointed, the escutcheon wedge was missing from the package. cabelas could not help me. i was lucky to know dixon's muzzleloading shop was only 15mi/20min away, they had the missing part i needed. otherwise it is a beautiful rifle, wood stock, wooden rod & the cleaning jag was inside the patch box. i can't wait to take it to the range to sight it in. two questions: 1: what size #11 nipple? - i bought a .75mm knight red hot stainless nipple but am afraid to wrench it down. 2: rear tang peep site - who makes one for this rifle? __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

January 3, 2009, 07:42 PM	#2
SteveDS Junior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Posts: 5	You have the correct nipple - 6x75 fits most if not all the Italian made muzzleloaders. Your gun should be made by Investarms, same manufacture that makes Lyman muzzleloaders. Tang mount peep sight – Lyman 57, T/C Hunting Peep, and I believe Williams makes one (RU22?). Another option is a barrel mounted Williams (WDOS). I currently use the T/C on both a T/C White Mountain and Renegade – pretty good for hunting (you will want to open up the aperture diameter to suit your eyes and lighting conditions), but I had to bed the barrels and tangs to make them come back to the same zero after disassembly. I use the Williams WDOS on a stainless Cabela’s Sporterized Hawken Hunter Carbine – sight stays with the barrel and there are a variety of interchangeable apertures. I have a couple of Lyman peep sights and the micrometer adjusts along with their quick release slide are convenient, but to me the thing is just too large for muzzleloader hunting.

January 3, 2009, 08:32 PM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Yeah, I don't understand, "Cabela's could not help me". Can't believe they sold you a rifle with missing parts and then said, "Sorry, Charlie, have a nice day." Customer Service needs to know time, date, location and names of the people involved.

January 3, 2009, 11:34 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I've got one of those I bought in 85. I think I paid 149.00 for it. Pretty good guns but the sights are crap.

January 3, 2009, 11:58 PM	#7
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I saw an old Investarms rifle at a gunshow and it didn't seem to be as well built as the newer ones. Investarms has effectively put TC out of the sidelock business.

January 4, 2009, 12:59 PM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	The treatment you received from the store's Customer Service rep is not Cabela's policy and must not be excused. Selling someone a gun with missing parts and then misapplying the warranty repair policy is completely unacceptable. I'll suggest you call the corporate Customer Service number and report the incident, including date, time and the names (if you have any) of the personnel involved. Customer Relations is 800-237-4444.

January 4, 2009, 01:05 PM	#10
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	That is a beautiful rifle! Glad you got the wedge straightened out. But damn, it was a genuine Hawken, you couldn't go no better. -Jeremiah Johnson

January 4, 2009, 03:16 PM	#11
googabeest Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Posts: 50	I'm not sure this service rep was correct in assuming the firearms policy applies to BP guns. I had a Uberti 1873 Cattleman that I returned to the store no problem after deciding I'd rather have an 1858. I've never had a problem returning anything to them.

January 4, 2009, 05:36 PM	#12
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Beautiful rifle ginoe. Love those doubleset triggers. FYI, you probably are aware of this but just incase, apply a very small amount of anti-seize to nipple threads. Makes for easier removal later. Have Fun!

January 4, 2009, 11:47 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It takes a 209 primer to set it off. get some Pyrodex if you gotta use a sub. Sounds like the cap wasn't fully seated on the nipple the first go round.

January 5, 2009, 12:30 AM	#18
L'derry Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Location: NH Posts: 63	Even when using Pyrodex or FFg, you want to fire off a couple of those #11 caps to clear the nipple of any obstruction, grease or cleaning material before you load the powder. Good luck with a nice gun.

January 5, 2009, 01:10 AM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Pyrodex RS will be fine with #11 caps. I use it all the time. I usually drop a little powder down the muzzle and set it off before I load a ball just to make sure there's no lube left behind.

January 5, 2009, 08:45 AM	#21
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	good tip - i'll try that next! i did fire off a couple of caps in the unloaded rifle just as i do using my in-line, but i'll drop a little bit down the muzzle next outing. it was slathered with oil when i 1st opened the box. after a few swabs, the patches were coming out clean/dry though i probably didn't get all the oil out. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

January 5, 2009, 03:23 PM	#22
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	A little smear of oil in your barrel won't bother you if you are going to load and shoot. If you are going to load and wait more than a couple of minutes before firing, a little sprinkle of posder in the bore when you pre-fire is good. You might be able to use that 209 powder if you install a musket nipple. Those musket caps are close to the 209 in power. Remember, though, the fire still has to make that left-hand turn to get to the powder. Might work. Might not work. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

January 5, 2009, 03:58 PM	#23
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Another tip for better service out of a side lock rifle ...always put the hammer on half cock while ramming the patched ball ..if you don`t it will air lock in the breech and powder won`t make it around the bend where the nipple sets ...haveing the hammer at half cock gets the face of the hammer off the top of the nipple and will allow the air to be pushed out of the nipple flash hole when seating the ball so some of the powder ends up closer to the flash ...

January 5, 2009, 04:04 PM	#24
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	The Blackhorn 209 powder is said to be a progressive burning powder and supposedly it's smokeless. It requires a tight seal to build up pressure. I'm not sure that it's even worth trying all by itself in a sidelock, but I have been wondering if it would ignite as a duplex load with an easier burning powder being dropped in the barrel first to set it off. Used alone it will weakly hangfire if the primer isn't hot enough. If 50% Blackhorn 209 was loaded after the Pyrodex, at least the ball wouldn't get stuck and there would be a report on a trial duplex load. A duplex load should also burn noticiably cleaner than if using Pyrodex alone. Last edited by arcticap; January 6, 2009 at 03:51 AM.

January 5, 2009, 08:38 PM	#25
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Don't know about the 209 powder, but I have used both Pyrodex and 777 in my flinter, by dumping 2 flashpan loads of ffff B/p ahead of the charge. It's easier here to find subs than real B/p, so I dole out my pan powder sparingly.