Dragoon wedge won't stay put...

[45 Dragoon]

Very cool. I like tuning the flat springs (you can tune the trig. spring and bolt spring independent of each other). In my experience, wires leave a lot of "feel" out and all of the crispness of the flats. Tuned flats will also last as long, if not longer, than wires. I changed the factory "tuning" (wires) back to flats in my El Patron Competition and folks can't believe how much better and lighter it is!! Anyway, a stop will go a long way in saving your hand and lock notches.

Works in DRAGOONS too lol!!!

[Rigmarol]

Bootsie and 45Dragoon, no hijack in my opinion, more of that good info is great!

I'm going to try to take some pictures of what my problem is. I'm pretty clear on the solutions provided, but I'm thinking some pictures might be helpful later.

When I get home from work this evening I'll try to remember to do it.

BTW, my Dragoons and conversions are shot with black powder loads, no fillers or wads under 210gn "Big Lube" bullets. I'm not shooting factory modern powders just in case I misled anyone earlier when I talked about shooting with the conversions (Kirst by the way).

My replacement wedge was brand new and verified by the VTI rep on the phone to be the correct wedge for the Dragoon goes almost all the way into the frame before there is any friction!!! Not good in my opinion. This is what clued me in to the problem being in an elogated wedge slot in the arbor.

Like I said, I'll try to get some useful pictures up soon.

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks for the extra info.
Well, i only shoot smokeless (cause i've cleaned all the b.p. i care too. . . . . things change!!) Anyway, the shock from full house loads of smokeless is more severe than the push from bp and there lies my stance. You can shoot mine all day and nothing moves. Yours (with a more forgiving push) is moving. I think you are clearencing the arbor mis fit and that is why the wedge is at a point where it wont fit. If you remove all ability for there to be movement ( anywhere), there wont be any.

[Rigmarol]

Makes sense.

[45 Dragoon]

So, if you fix the short arbor length and stabilize it ( also setting and determining the barrel/cyl gap) you can reclaim the life of your wedge( yes the one that is too small now) and never need another one!

[Rigmarol]

I just finished doing some very detailed measuring and came up with a few corrections and a surprise or two.

Regarding the short arbor assumptions we were all making (because Italian clones are all short right?) Although these were made in Italy, they were assembled and fitted in the US under whatever agreements were in place to produce the "Signature Series" Colt guns. I've always assumed my arbors would be like any other italian gun but they are both dead on. I'm sure someone could improve on them somehow but it would be well beyond me.

I took both guns removed the cylinders and put the barrels back on line up 90 degrees and set the barrels all the way down and even tapped on them with a mallet to be sure they were all the way down on the arbors. both guns bottomed out right at the frame with no bypass at all. I've read about measuring the short arbors this way but just never did it until this evening. So, I don't have short arbors it would seem.

On to the problem with the wedge - I found a surprise that may have just wasted a lot of time. My NEW wedge is narrower than the original wedge.

The original wedge fits perfectly fine. I replaced it only because it fell out twice and I din't want to loose it because it is a serial number part that matches the gun. I figured replacing it would take the pain out of losing one if it ever happened again.

The NEW ATI verified wedge is too dog-gone narrow for this gun.

I tried the same NEW wedge in my second Dragoon (also a Signature Series gun) and it doesn't go into the gun quite as far as the problem gun. But the notch on the spring is not against the frame as the original wedges are. So that tells me I do have some wear or deformation on the problem gun.

Shimming for the narrower wedges is probably going to be the simple fix.

Here are some pictures:

My New (edit) Walker (edit) and my brace of Colt's Signature Series Dragoons with Kirst Konverters:


I took the NEW wedge and the original wedge and clamped them tight spring to spring (the only way to get them tightly together for comparison) and found the original was .02 thicker where it mattered.






Here is the original wedge installed. It is tapped in snug (I didn't set the gap just snugged it in for comparison):


Here is the NEW ATI wedge. If I tapped it in too hard it actually bottoms out:


So, what I've come to is that the new wedges are not correct no matter what ATI told me.

The original wedge fits perfectly but I still have a mystery as to why it wants to jump outta the gun (I'm suspecting the spring as a possibility).

The retention screw in the frame is a full round with no flats and in no way touches the wedge, it is there to snag the spring so the wedge doesn't have to be removed completely to remove the barrel. Tightening the screw does nothing more than make the screw tighter.

The shim idea will probably work fine with the new wedge. I'm going to try it. I need to go to the hardware store to pick up some copper shim material and see what I can cobble together.

This way, if I ever need to go back to the original wedges (like when I ever sell it) I can remove the shim and be fine.

[45 Dragoon]

With the set screw, you could use the new ones and save the orig. for later or, just use the orig. When you clean, you dont have any extra parts. Also, noticed you said you didn't set the gap. You dont set it, the arbor length does. The wedge isn't a gap setter, it just keeps the front attached to the back.

[Rigmarol]

Yeah, I realize you don't set the gap, I meant I didn't "check" the gap which I do every time I put it back together. Sorry I misspoke.

Thanks.

[45 Dragoon]

Not hackin on ya, just for the newbies.

[Rigmarol]

Understand 45Dragoon, no problem here at all.
I appreciate the info no matter who it's aimed at.

[TemboTusk]

Please excuse my reviving this old post.

"I put a set screw at the end of all my opentops arbors. This gives you an adjustable key hole for the wedge. Do you shoot your .45 conversion exclusively? If so, i have what i call a "captured wedge" fix. The wedge wil NOT be able to work out.

Works perfect in all my conversions.

45 Dragoon"


45 Dragoon,
Can you post some pictures of the "Captured Wedge Fix"? I shoot my opentops exclusively with a conversion cylinder and I have been downsizing both my loads and bullet weight in an effort to keep the wedge from deforming. The arbor appears to be the proper length, however even with 160 grain bullet it still shows an imprint of the arbor.


Thanks!

[45 Dragoon]

I'll try to post a couple. If you pm me your number, i'll call and give you the scoop.

45 Dragoon

[TemboTusk]

Thanks 45 Dragoon! Great talking to you.

[45 Dragoon]

Call anytime . Glad I could help.